c280 engine knock on start up

JACKC141FE · 11-06-2008, 01:36 AM

Hi all I need some help, on my c280 103k miles, when its cold the engine knocks for a few seconds when started. Can the oil be draining down from the oil filter causing a zero oil pressure dry start? Is there a oil drain back valve in the system that may have failed?

Thanks Jack

Untertürkheim · 11-06-2008, 04:31 AM

You mean lifter noise?

What kind of oil and filter are you using?

vinceC · 11-06-2008, 09:41 AM

My 2000 with 126K has done this since I bought it with 60K. Since it was under an M-B extended warranty I had the dealer check it out several times. When I finally was able to talk to the Shop Foremen he told me it is carbon buildup on the top of the pistons. The M112 V-6 has very small clearances and is somewhat prone to this problem. He recommeded adding a cleaner like Techron every 5K or so. It seems to help on mine - the knocking is considerable reduced.

JACKC141FE · 11-07-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Untertürkheim

You mean lifter noise?

What kind of oil and filter are you using?

Using Mobil 1 Syn 10/30 and the standard MB that goes in the top of the v6 engine

JACKC141FE · 11-07-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinceC

My 2000 with 126K has done this since I bought it with 60K. Since it was under an M-B extended warranty I had the dealer check it out several times. When I finally was able to talk to the Shop Foremen he told me it is carbon buildup on the top of the pistons. The M112 V-6 has very small clearances and is somewhat prone to this problem. He recommeded adding a cleaner like Techron every 5K or so. It seems to help on mine - the knocking is considerable reduced.

Thanks i will give it a try.

Untertürkheim · 11-07-2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACKC141FE

Using Mobil 1 Syn 10/30 and the standard MB that goes in the top of the v6 engine

That is the wrong oil, it is not MB approved. It, along with carbon buildup can cause the valve noise.

vinceC · 11-07-2008, 09:00 AM

I don't think the OP is talking about valve noise. The noise I have experienced, and I believe the OP is describing is a distinct knock - it sounds more like piston slap or even a rod knock.

Mobil 1 0-40 or 5W-40 is the currect spec for this engine.

Untertürkheim · 11-07-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinceC

I don't think the OP is talking about valve noise. The noise I have experienced, and I believe the OP is describing is a distinct knock - it sounds more like piston slap or even a rod knock.

Mobil 1 0-40 or 5W-40 is the currect spec for this engine.

Not mobil 1 5w-40.

Untertürkheim · 11-07-2008, 07:45 PM

There is some good information here: http://www.mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/268500-bring-your-own-oil-service-save-ok-what-type-quantity-should-i-bring.html#post3156412

xvvvz · 11-07-2008, 09:42 PM

From what I have read, it could also be a pulley bearing going bad or a tensioner going bad. I am dealing with a quick bit of knocking sound at startup and have read about many different causes, so it may not be a simple diagnosis. You need to experiment more and give us a more detailed description.

vinceC · 11-07-2008, 10:26 PM

An MBUSA update issued to dealers on June 5, 2006 instructs dealers to draw down their stocks of 0W-40 in preparation for a change to ESP Formula 5W-40. In the FAQ section the bulletin states that the new specification MB 229.51 is a universal oil that can be used in both diesel and gasoline engines. It goes on the state that while the 5W-40 is under study for AMG models, the dealers should continue to use 0W-40 in those models. It goes on the state the 0W-40 will not meet MB 229.51 specs. It also states that 5W-40 is backwards compatible with 0W-40.

The only place I can find ESP 5W-40 is the dealer. I still use 0W-40, but it is getting hard to find locally, and not due to the hurricane driven shortage. It just doesn't sell well locally so all the stores have reduced stock and I have to order it. My dealer price on ESP 5W-40 is competitive so I will probably have to switch soon for convenience sake.

Untertürkheim · 11-08-2008, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinceC

An MBUSA update issued to dealers on June 5, 2006 instructs dealers to draw down their stocks of 0W-40 in preparation for a change to ESP Formula 5W-40. In the FAQ section the bulletin states that the new specification MB 229.51 is a universal oil that can be used in both diesel and gasoline engines. It goes on the state that while the 5W-40 is under study for AMG models, the dealers should continue to use 0W-40 in those models. It goes on the state the 0W-40 will not meet MB 229.51 specs. It also states that 5W-40 is backwards compatible with 0W-40.

The only place I can find ESP 5W-40 is the dealer. I still use 0W-40, but it is getting hard to find locally, and not due to the hurricane driven shortage. It just doesn't sell well locally so all the stores have reduced stock and I have to order it. My dealer price on ESP 5W-40 is competitive so I will probably have to switch soon for convenience sake.

It is better to avoid low SAPS oils unless required by your car. the -1 spec oils are not a further generation, so it is not a question of backward-compatability. Stick with 229.5, it is far better for the engine.

vinceC · 11-18-2008, 06:59 PM

Interesting note: The September 2006 issue of Factory Service Products listed 229.51 oils for both gas and diesel cars. The 2007 issue contains a notation that 229.51 oils are for diesels only.

So I stand corrected.

I have attached the latest issue for your information.

Untertürkheim · 11-19-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinceC

Interesting note: The September 2006 issue of Factory Service Products listed 229.51 oils for both gas and diesel cars. The 2007 issue contains a notation that 229.51 oils are for diesels only.

So I stand corrected.

I have attached the latest issue for your information.

How do you come about those PDFs? I would like to see the latest release, I would imagine there have been updates since 2007.

vinceC · 11-19-2008, 08:54 AM

Untertürkheim

The August 2007 issue is the latest release. I get them from the Startekinfo website. It is part of the free information available on the site. I have attached a screen shot showing where it is located on the site.

Untertürkheim · 11-19-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinceC

Untertürkheim

The August 2007 issue is the latest release. I get them from the Startekinfo website. It is part of the free information available on the site. I have attached a screen shot showing where it is located on the site.

Many thanks! Great information.

11-06-2008, 01:36 AM	#1
JACKC141FE Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 3	c280 engine knock on start up Hi all I need some help, on my c280 103k miles, when its cold the engine knocks for a few seconds when started. Can the oil be draining down from the oil filter causing a zero oil pressure dry start? Is there a oil drain back valve in the system that may have failed? Thanks Jack Last edited by JACKC141FE; 11-07-2008 at 01:42 AM.

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11-06-2008, 04:31 AM	#2
Untertürkheim MBWorld Fanatic! Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,206	You mean lifter noise? What kind of oil and filter are you using?

11-06-2008, 09:41 AM	#3
vinceC Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Chesapeake, Virginia Posts: 264	My 2000 with 126K has done this since I bought it with 60K. Since it was under an M-B extended warranty I had the dealer check it out several times. When I finally was able to talk to the Shop Foremen he told me it is carbon buildup on the top of the pistons. The M112 V-6 has very small clearances and is somewhat prone to this problem. He recommeded adding a cleaner like Techron every 5K or so. It seems to help on mine - the knocking is considerable reduced.

11-07-2008, 09:00 AM	#7
vinceC Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Chesapeake, Virginia Posts: 264	I don't think the OP is talking about valve noise. The noise I have experienced, and I believe the OP is describing is a distinct knock - it sounds more like piston slap or even a rod knock. Mobil 1 0-40 or 5W-40 is the currect spec for this engine.

11-07-2008, 07:45 PM	#9
Untertürkheim MBWorld Fanatic! Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,206	There is some good information here: http://www.mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/268500-bring-your-own-oil-service-save-ok-what-type-quantity-should-i-bring.html#post3156412

11-07-2008, 09:42 PM	#10
xvvvz Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 302	From what I have read, it could also be a pulley bearing going bad or a tensioner going bad. I am dealing with a quick bit of knocking sound at startup and have read about many different causes, so it may not be a simple diagnosis. You need to experiment more and give us a more detailed description.

11-07-2008, 10:26 PM	#11
vinceC Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Chesapeake, Virginia Posts: 264	An MBUSA update issued to dealers on June 5, 2006 instructs dealers to draw down their stocks of 0W-40 in preparation for a change to ESP Formula 5W-40. In the FAQ section the bulletin states that the new specification MB 229.51 is a universal oil that can be used in both diesel and gasoline engines. It goes on the state that while the 5W-40 is under study for AMG models, the dealers should continue to use 0W-40 in those models. It goes on the state the 0W-40 will not meet MB 229.51 specs. It also states that 5W-40 is backwards compatible with 0W-40. The only place I can find ESP 5W-40 is the dealer. I still use 0W-40, but it is getting hard to find locally, and not due to the hurricane driven shortage. It just doesn't sell well locally so all the stores have reduced stock and I have to order it. My dealer price on ESP 5W-40 is competitive so I will probably have to switch soon for convenience sake.