P0012 - Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)

[SlvrC230SS]

Folks, I got CEL this morning so I call stealership and they told me it was probably the gas cap. Still curious and wasn't satisfied so I went to Autozone to borrow the scanner and got P0012 error code. What is this error? I know it's something with camshaft but what cause it? Car is going to dealer tomorrow morning, but some feedback will be greatly appreciated.

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[ohlord]

camshaft position sensor.You would have real problems if the cam was over retarded.
Is it running fine?Are you under warranty?
ohlord

[SlvrC230SS]

Yeah, it runs just fine. I don't feel the difference. Thank God, it's under warranty.

[C230 Sport Coup]

Originally Posted by SlvrC230SS

Yeah, it runs just fine. I don't feel the difference. Thank God, it's under warranty.

Over - retarded...
I'm feeling a Bevis and Butthead attack...
ah huh huh huh...
huh huh huh.....

[SlvrC230SS]

Got the car back last night. It was the sensor and adjustment that they had to do. After driving it last night, the engine feels smoother now.

[ohlord]

camshaft position sensor is a whole lot better then hearing it was the timing chain
thanks for the update.
ohlord

[Rev 2 Liv]

Originally Posted by SlvrC230SS

Got the car back last night. It was the sensor and adjustment that they had to do. After driving it last night, the engine feels smoother now.

So they replaced the camshaft position sensor? Hmm, on an SOHC Vee engine, are there 2 sensors or just 1?

[SlvrC230SS]

Originally Posted by Rev 2 Liv

So they replaced the camshaft position sensor? Hmm, on an SOHC Vee engine, are there 2 sensors or just 1?

I'm not sure how many, but according the receipt was one sensor replaced. It was under warranty.

[aolsen]

How can the camshaft position sensor be replaced? (DIY)

Sometimes, at startup my car shakes a little, but after a few seconds idles smoothly. I'm thinking it could be the camshaft sensor.

I already replaced the cam sensors and added the isolation wires in summer 2008.

[Glyn M Ruck]

Originally Posted by SlvrC230SS

Got the car back last night. It was the sensor and adjustment that they had to do. After driving it last night, the engine feels smoother now.

Lucky you This is highly unusual on the V6.

[lezdoit]

yesterday i got a code P0340 cam position sensor A bank 1 cicuit malfunction. long story short - i drove right to the dealer as the car had real rough idle. called me today to tell me they installed a NEW cam sensor and car acted the same. Put old sensor back in and now checking the chain slack after removing the valve cover. its the M271 engine with 70k on it. i am getting nervous.......

[johnand]

This code just popped up on my 07 C230 tonight. The code scanner read: P0012 - A camshaft position timing over - retarded bank 1.

This is just my luck. I am 7K miles out of warranty. Anyone know how to test the sensor, or how much it runs? Sounds like it needs adjustment from what SlvrC230SS reported back from his dealer. Can this be done DIY, or am I going to have to bend over and take it to the dealer?

[Glyn M Ruck]

John,
I pulled my first 112 based comments because they were crap as you will see. I have a 5 meg doc for you - PM me your e mail address. The quadcam engine looks like a bugger with 4 cam sensors. You might want to leave this to a dealer or get an R&R method from splinter.

Bad day - after late night - suffering brain fade. talking about 271 when I mean 112 - Yugh!

[johnand]

OK, so I cleared the code and am going to drive it and see if it pops up again. Car runs fine, so no other symptoms. Though, just a note, but don't think it matters, the car is currently filled with E85 and has been the last 4 tankfuls.

Glyn, I PM'ed you my email address. I am going to order the MB service manual DVD today, so I can get a better idea of what's involved. Thanks for the help.

I seemed to have gotten the C-Class that has all the rare problems 1st the steering rack, now this.

[Glyn M Ruck]

Found your e mail address - doc sent - let me know if received OK. I also have a Merc general principles doc if you are interested - not on our engines though.

[Glyn M Ruck]

The E85 won't have had anything to do with this. They are all just hall sensors - even on the 112 where it just senses Cyl No 1.

[johnand]

Glyn, I got the doc. I have read that one several times Thanks.

Drove to work (40 miles), and no light. What are the chances it was a fluke and won't come back?

Looking at the documents on the M272 and looking at the engine last night, If I do have to replace 1 of the 4 sensors, it will be a total cake walk. They are right there on the front of the engine. 5 minutes at most to replace one. I can't imagine there being a way to adjust them, as the bolt holes aren't slotted or anything. Just may have to "learn" them in STAR as you stated Glyn. But, even that seems really unlikely, based on their function.

Ordered the STAR service manual DVD from MBUSA. $85 and it will be here Friday. $60 for the DVD, $10 s/h, $5 to expedite, and tax.

According to STAR EPC, there is 1 part# for the sensor on M272 engines, and there is 4 of the same sensor total. Part number: A004-153-96-28 It lists for $222.00 MB of Ft. Lauderdale has it for $173.16.

[krisv420]

Originally Posted by johnand

Glyn, I got the doc. I have read that one several times Thanks.

Drove to work (40 miles), and no light. What are the chances it was a fluke and won't come back?

Looking at the documents on the M272 and looking at the engine last night, If I do have to replace 1 of the 4 sensors, it will be a total cake walk. They are right there on the front of the engine. 5 minutes at most to replace one. I can't imagine there being a way to adjust them, as the bolt holes aren't slotted or anything. Just may have to "learn" them in STAR as you stated Glyn. But, even that seems really unlikely, based on their function.

Ordered the STAR service manual DVD from MBUSA. $85 and it will be here Friday. $60 for the DVD, $10 s/h, $5 to expedite, and tax.

According to STAR EPC, there is 1 part# for the sensor on M272 engines, and there is 4 of the same sensor total. Part number: A004-153-96-28 It lists for $222.00 MB of Ft. Lauderdale has it for $173.16.

Oh snaps when you get that cd... do us all a favor and put it up as a torrent =P

Sucks to hear your 07 is out of warranty which is crazy..

[Glyn M Ruck]

Originally Posted by johnand

Glyn, I got the doc. I have read that one several times Thanks.

Drove to work (40 miles), and no light. What are the chances it was a fluke and won't come back?

Looking at the documents on the M272 and looking at the engine last night, If I do have to replace 1 of the 4 sensors, it will be a total cake walk. They are right there on the front of the engine. 5 minutes at most to replace one. I can't imagine there being a way to adjust them, as the bolt holes aren't slotted or anything. Just may have to "learn" them in STAR as you stated Glyn. But, even that seems really unlikely, based on their function.

Ordered the STAR service manual DVD from MBUSA. $85 and it will be here Friday. $60 for the DVD, $10 s/h, $5 to expedite, and tax.

According to STAR EPC, there is 1 part# for the sensor on M272 engines, and there is 4 of the same sensor total. Part number: A004-153-96-28 It lists for $222.00 MB of Ft. Lauderdale has it for $173.16.

Sorry to clog your inbox - at least I got to update myself on the 272 - as I say I've never seen a failure - Yeah, I agree - hall sensors look dead simple to exchange as they should be. As long as there is no fine tuning procedure on those damn, use once, impulse wheels. I for the life of me can't see why there should be.

Disgusting price for a simple hall sensor!

Edit - regarding code not returning - anything is possible with Benz electronics. One off triggers are common.

[LILBENZ230]

John - Getmercedesparts.com has the part A004-153-96-28 for $166.50. Not a huge savings, but less.

[Glyn M Ruck]

Originally Posted by LILBENZ230

John - Getmercedesparts.com has the part A004-153-96-28 for $166.50. Not a huge savings, but less.

Gives you an idea of the markup on these things. I'll bet they are still making a packet on that $166

[Glyn M Ruck]

John see edit

[johnand]

Originally Posted by LILBENZ230

John - Getmercedesparts.com has the part A004-153-96-28 for $166.50. Not a huge savings, but less.

Thanks Matt

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

Gives you an idea of the markup on these things. I'll bet they are still making a packet on that $166

No kidding. I was expecting around $50 like the Crankshaft Position Sensor.

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

John see edit

Thanks Glyn. 150 miles now since the reset and no light. Just going to sit tight for now and see if it returns before doing anything.

[Glyn M Ruck]

Yeah - A number of years back when we sponsored & I ran the Caltex Honda Race Team in SA it came to my notice that the markup on Honda motorcycle spares was 1200%, yes 1200%. Had a fight with the MD of the importer's. I informed him that the race team would not be paying these prices. He could have landed cost plus 10% from us. Made a big difference to my racing budget.