Micro fibre Towel Scratching

[TOGWT]

Abrading a paint surface with any type of towelling material, will, on a microscopic level, cause surface scratches (even with a lubrication layer between the towel and the surface) Regardless of material type or quality, a dirty micro fibre, or a 100% Cotton towel will scratch, micro fibre has attractant properties, that is dirt, dust, and various other substances cling to it, which is one of the reasons that it works so well, but it is also a reason why you need to be extra careful when using towels on your paint 1.Water based paints Water-based automotive paint is classified as a semi-permeable membrane that has tensile strength and elongation (elasticity) to enable it to move along with the metal as it expands /contracts due to environmental temperature fluctuations Paint is a simple mixture of ingredients including pigments, a binder and diluents, or thinner (in a water-based paint it is water; in a solvent-based paint, it is petroleum solvent) water-based paints are also porous. Automotive paints utilizing modern paint technology using water-based high solid/low solvent urethane that for environmental reasons produce a much softer and more porous finish than acrylic or oil based high solvent content paint systems. Using permanent pigmentations and colorants specifically designed for automotive applications (containing automotive-grade binders). Albeit a non-toxic (less than 0.01-percent VOC) water-based paint, there are no compatibility issues with major-brand urethane and polyurethane clear coats. 2.Hard and soft are both relative terms You can scratch the hard surface of vehicles paint with a soft towel by the application of enough pressure. Both pressure and mechanical stress are defined as force per unit area. These two forces are the subject of Newton's third law of motion; the law of reciprocal actions [: to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction] How can a hard clear coat be so easily scratched? Force acts through a body that has a surface area; if the surface area is really small while maintaining an equal force, the pressure becomes astronomical and the object under pressure capable of penetrating the surface of an otherwise tough material. That’s why a micro fine thread that is twice as fine as silk and a 100 times finer than a human hair, in an otherwise soft towel will scratch your paint. And the same reason a mosquito can penetrate a rhino hide with its proboscis (stinger). 3. Micro fibre definition Micro fibre by definition (very small; involving minute quantities or variations) is not a fabric; but a yarn, that’s spun into thread, which is then used to weave a terry fabric. These ultra-fine yarns (twice as fine as silk and is 100 times finer than a human hair) are made from various sources, they can be made from many different materials, such as a 70% polyester/30% polyamide (or 80/20%) or a natural material such as cellulose, a plant carbohydrate. There are currently two countries that manufacture and export micro fibre towels, Korea and China. The quality of these products is dependent upon the quality assurance (if any) programs employed. More so than many car care products - you'll (usually) get the quality you pay for. Purchasing them from a reliable vendor is the safest bet. Its scratch resistance has a lot to do with the way the fibres are processed and spun, there are too many factors to be able to say conclusively that natural fibres will not cause scratches and artificial fibres will. However, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch, flannel or cotton flannel is a very tight weave and it could scratch as it mats down easily, always try to stay with a terrycloth weave. The first material used to produce micro fibre was a combination of two DuPont fibres, polyester and polyamide, which is used as the core and polyester as the outer fibre. No matter how soft it feels, polyester, being a plastic will scratch a paint surface on a microscopic level, which shows up as towelling marks, longer scratches than the usual small swirl marks or micro marring The smaller the diameter of the yarn, the softer the fabric will feel, however this does not mean that it's non-abrasive and will not cause scratches (this softness can also be chemically induced). The most important criteria for any fabric used on a vehicle surface is its quality and scratch resistance. Regardless of material type or quality, a dirty micro fibre, or a 100% cotton towel will both scratch, micro fibre has attractant properties (that is dirt, dust, and various other substances cling to it), which is one of the reasons that it works so well, but it is also a reason why you need to be extra careful when using towels on your paint. (100%) Cotton Towels (as a comparison) AlpineFiber3 from DFTowels are 100% Cotton Micro fibre are more absorbent and plusher than most cotton towels. A micro fibre’s scratch resistance has a lot to do with the way the fibres are processed and spun, there are too many factors to be able to say conclusively that natural fibres will not cause scratches and artificial fibres will. In my opinion, however, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch, flannel or cotton flannel is a very tight weave and it could scratch as it mats down easily, always try to stay with a terrycloth weave. Theses cotton towels are exceptionally soft, super absorbent terrycloth. The fabric is woven from a blend of micro fibre cotton and Pima Cotton; no artificial fibres of any kind are used in the weaving or sewing of this product. But pay attention to the edge bindings as they can be a potential cause of surface scratches Quality towels edge bindings are sewn with cotton thread, not polyester. (For more information on cotton) -http://www.supima.com/faq/index.htm An extract from one of a series of in-depth detailing articles © TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved.

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[Carsy]

Thank you for the interesting post.

I find the best polishing cloth is my old worn out undies.

[Glyn M Ruck]

Thanks for posting here as well - much appreciated.

[Glyn M Ruck]

Originally Posted by Carsy

Thank you for the interesting post.

I find the best polishing cloth is my old worn out undies.

Well after years of bovine flatulence & washing they are no doubt lint free & probably ideal.

[CEB]

While an interesting read, one must remember that this information is essentially an advertising campaign for a textile company.

Although I believe that this "anti microfiber" capaign is a bit over the top, it does reinforce a few basic points.

Any fiber will scratch.
Any fiber will pick up dirt and scratch more
You can't find a fiber that won't scratch (see point 1) but some scratches are invisible to the naked eye
Nano paints may need different care from conventional paints

[Glyn M Ruck]

You conveniently dump the most important point

"However, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch"

[TB5...]

for this reason

metallic paint >


doesn't seem to leave too many scratches with my 18$ cloth...

[CEB]

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

You conveniently dump the most important point

"However, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch"

...as it really depends on the fiber design. It is quite simple to make a round thread loop that has no sharp "edges" - but you do have a point - a $2 microfiber cloth will outscratch a $2 cotton cloth.

Anothing thing that folks often forget is the importance of washing their cloths properly - using the correct detergents and not using softeners...

I think that we are all saying the same thing - a quality cloth is required to keep from scratching your paint...

[RLE]

Originally Posted by Carsy

Thank you for the interesting post.

I find the best polishing cloth is my old worn out undies.

What about the buttons?

[BENZITCH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsy
Thank you for the interesting post.

I find the best polishing cloth is my old worn out undies.

What about the buttons?
(would this make them grampies panties vs. granny panties?)

The stains to a light colored car?

Actually is it me or does the microfiber feel weird on your hands, like it gets attached or something.
I don't know but it sure feels funny on my hands.

[Glyn M Ruck]

CEB - I'm not sure that is true....

I'm afraid I am. The Paint & Polish companies have convinced me - plus looking at others scratched cars.

I presume you have connections to the detailing industry - you endlessly hint at it but never come out & say it.

[Savage c-300]

What a funny thread! Thanks for the info. Love the view from Cape Town!

[dmatre]

This sounds like marketing hogwash to me.

Microfiber is defined as a fiber having a fineness of less than 1 denier. Denier is defined as the mass (weight) in grams of 9000 meters of a given fiber. Thus a fiber of 1 Denier is 1g/9000m. Some microfibers being produces have a denier of 0.001, which is 1000 times finer than a fiber of 1 denier. Naturally occurring Cotton is in the area of about 30 denier. Naturally occurring silk is in the area of 10 denier.

Microfiber describes only the fiber used, and has nothing to do with yarn or fabric construction.

Microfiber can only by man-made, as cotton/wool/flax/ramie does not naturally occur in fineness anywhere near, much less under, 1 denier.

So, it sounds like there may be some liberal usage of the words "Microfiber", "Cotton", or both; with regards to the product mentioned.

[CEB]

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

CEB - I'm not sure that is true....

I'm afraid I am. The Paint & Polish companies have convinced me - plus looking at others scratched cars.

I presume you have connections to the detailing industry - you endlessly hint at it but never come out & say it.

...I'm familiar with the industry from the glass coating field - eyeglasses in particular require a no scratch cloth to keep the anti reflective coating from being scratched.

No-scratch is actually a misnomer as everything will scratch - but it is a matter of how fine (or visible) the scratches.

The same theories apply to automotive paints....

[Glyn M Ruck]

Understood!

[BENZITCH]

Originally Posted by CEB

...I'm familiar with the industry from the glass coating field - eyeglasses in particular require a no scratch cloth to keep the anti reflective coating from being scratched.

No-scratch is actually a misnomer as everything will scratch - but it is a matter of how fine (or visible) the scratches.

The same theories apply to automotive paints....

So thats why my glasses look terrible in only a few weeks.

They get line scratches. How do I rid of them or not get them in the first place?

Thanks
Bruce

[JoeVal]

Originally Posted by BENZITCH

So thats why my glasses look terrible in only a few weeks.
They get line scratches. How do I rid of them or not get them in the first place?
Thanks
Bruce

Clean always a wet lens, use water and tissue to dry it. (glass eye balls excepted).

Meanwhile, back at the ranch different kinds of micro fiber cloths were examined. The best brands do not damage the finishes to remove haze from polish or waxes. Waffle weave dry cars well, if you don't friction the surface to absorb. But no micro fiber cloths are used for shampooing the car body, instead lamb's wool mittens do this chore well.

Cheers, JV

[CEB]

Originally Posted by JoeVal

Clean always a wet lens, use water and tissue to dry it. (glass eye balls excepted).

Meanwhile, back at the ranch different kinds of micro fiber cloths were examined. The best brands do not damage the finishes to remove haze from polish or waxes. Waffle weave dry cars well, if you don't friction the surface to absorb. But no micro fiber cloths are used for shampooing the car body, instead lamb's wool mittens do this chore well.

Cheers, JV

Wet lens is good - tissue is not. Your normal Kleenex will leave lots of little scratches - in a pinch, even a paper towel is better.

You should be using a clean microfiber cloth made for cleaning glasses.

[Glyn M Ruck]

I know nothing about spectacles but plenty about paper manufacture. The cellulose & starches in paper can be highly abrasive. I've been told by my optician not to put paper tissue anywhere near polymer spectacle lenses.

[CEB]

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

I know nothing about spectacles but plenty about paper manufacture. The cellulose & starches in paper can be highly abrasive. I've been told by my optician not to put paper tissue anywhere near polymer spectacle lenses.

We ARE on the same page....

[patrickkc]

Originally Posted by TB5...

for this reason

metallic paint >


doesn't seem to leave too many scratches with my 18$ cloth...

what the hell do you use to wipe your car?! $18 cloth?? i bought 8 microfibre cloths at canadian tires for like $4.99! at 50% off! haha

[whkento]

Originally Posted by CEB

...as it really depends on the fiber design. It is quite simple to make a round thread loop that has no sharp "edges" - but you do have a point - a $2 microfiber cloth will outscratch a $2 cotton cloth.

Anothing thing that folks often forget is the importance of washing their cloths properly - using the correct detergents and not using softeners...

I think that we are all saying the same thing - a quality cloth is required to keep from scratching your paint...

While I'm not happy that I've been using the wrong stuff on my cars , I'm glad to have the new info.

Is there a consensus re. which cloths to use? (I may be a bit confused here.) Also, you mentioned washing the cloths properly--what's the right way to do it?

Thanks for the info / wisdom.

[RLE]

Originally Posted by CEB

Wet lens is good - tissue is not. Your normal Kleenex will leave lots of little scratches - in a pinch, even a paper towel is better.

You should be using a clean microfiber cloth made for cleaning glasses.

A friend who is in the eyeglass business advises against using paper of any kind to polish plastic lenses. Cloth only.

[RLE]

Originally Posted by CEB

While an interesting read, one must remember that this information is essentially an advertising campaign for a textile company.

Although I believe that this "anti microfiber" capaign is a bit over the top,..............

Nano paints may need different care from conventional paints

Just yesterday I started the task of brightening up my Barolo Red C300.

Starting with my Porter-Cable random orbital polisher with appropriate foam pad, I polished everything aft of the C-pillar with Menzerna Nano polish and rubbed off the dried polish with a small microfiber towel over the foam pad. I then cleaned up the surface with Griot's Speed Shine leaving it slick and free of everything. Next came the Menzerna paint sealer (smear on, rub off to a shine) and following that an application of Griot's Concours wax with the red foam pad on the buffer. The wax was polished off with another microfiber cloth over the foam pad on the buffer. Final cleanup was with more microfiber cloths.

This is only the second time I've really polished the paint (even though it's been Speed Shined and waxed many times) and after completing the multi-step process I would say the paint is shinier than ever including when new. And, there are NO SURFACE SCRATCHES of any kind.

I did remove the license plate and bracket so as to get better access to the recess.

BTW, I went over the horizontal surfaces several weeks ago with paint cleaning clay.

Might do the hood and front fenders tomorrow.

[Glyn M Ruck]

And that is frequently the case when you wax - the wax fills up the scratches. This is also something that happens over time. Strip a patch of wax off & have a look.