Meth/Water/Alcohol Injection kit?

[bobby02c32AMG]

Does anyone have or seen any C32's with a Meth/Alcohol/water injection kit? I am getting one installed either tomorrow(Monday) or Tuesday whenever it gets here, I just want to know what to expect out of it. It is going to run with my existing washer fluid tank so that once I get low the washer fluid light will say instead of trying to install another warning light or having to look all the time to see how much fluid I have left. Also, on the kit I am getting there is a switch that does two things. One, is to set the boost level in which you want it to start working, and the second is where you want the boost to stop working. Does anyone know or have any suggestions on where to have it start spraying and when to have it stop spraying? Thanks, Bobby C.

To remove this ad, register today or login if you already are registered!

[c32AMG-DTM]

I would assume you'd want it to trigger off of IAT's... like "start spraying when IAT's exceed 120, stop spraying when they're below 100" or something like that.

Where is the injector being installed?

As you may know, this is fairly uncharted territory for the C32 - not many have pursued this mod. Good luck; look forward to seeing/hearing your results.

[mkonei]

who is tuning it? you wont see gains off of the kit alone. the gains that you get from a a mod like this are the ability to run higher boost/advanced timing without detonation. the kit alone does not make power, the tune that you run it with makes the power. do you have any respectable tuners in your area?

[MRAMG1]

Originally Posted by bobby02c32AMG

Does anyone have or seen any C32's with a Meth/Alcohol/water injection kit? I am getting one installed either tomorrow(Monday) or Tuesday whenever it gets here, I just want to know what to expect out of it. It is going to run with my existing washer fluid tank so that once I get low the washer fluid light will say instead of trying to install another warning light or having to look all the time to see how much fluid I have left.
Also, on the kit I am getting there is a switch that does two things. One, is to set the boost level in which you want it to start working, and the second is where you want the boost to stop working. Does anyone know or have any suggestions on where to have it start spraying and when to have it stop spraying?
Thanks,
Bobby C.

Hey Bobby:

I have warned others on this issue before, and I will gladly do it again.

Our blowers, being a Lysholm screw type, sorry for the spelling, operates on only a few thousandth's clearance. As you may know it is clearanced for AIR only. This is VERY important, as fluids CANNOT be compressed. If your system is spraying before the supercharger you are GREATLY risking it doing what is referred to as a "Hydrolock" Thanks for the spell check below.
Please feel free to contact ANY positive displacement blower manufacturer and they will inform you that they set up the clearance for a EITHER a dry or wet system. AKA there is ALOT more clearance for a WET style, aka dragsters. I looked into this a while back for my Stang, as it had a Kenne Bell Whipple, aka Lysholm screw, and they informed me " Under NO circumstances do you want to run ANY liquid through the supercharger" Do what you like, but I would NEVER risk it my friend.

See yeah

PS: There is at least one guy on the W211 section that is running it, but again I defer you to the above physics/facts.

[mrphotoman]

lol it is called hydrolock and a meth system will not do that.

spray before the throttle body. it is boost activated, based on a pre-set psi level, for example it will come on at 7psi and spray to redline.

very easy to install.

did you get a progressive unit that gradually sprays more as the boost increases?

[MRAMG1]

Originally Posted by mrphotoman

lol it is called hydrolock and a meth system will not do that.

You are wrong thinking that if it is Alcohol, Methanol, or any other liquid, that it can not cause a lock to the impellers, pardon my spell checker. I said it before and I will say it again, you CAN NOT compress ANY liquid, period. This is why I looked into using NOS on my car, simply for its cooling capacity, and of course it being a GAS. Oh well to each his own best of luck to you.

See yeah

PS: As I mentioned, YES it has been done and it can work. Just don't come crying in the end, or should I say your superchargers end

[c32used]

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by MRAMG1

You are wrong thinking that if it is Alcohol, Methanol, or any other liquid, that it can not cause a lock to the impellers, pardon my spell checker. I said it before and I will say it again, you CAN NOT compress ANY liquid, period. This is why I looked into using NOS on my car, simply for its cooling capacity, and of course it being a GAS. Oh well to each his own best of luck to you.

See yeah

PS: As I mentioned, YES it has been done and it can work. Just don't come crying in the end, or should I say your superchargers end

If I understand water/meth injection systems properly - hydrolock will not be an issue with a properly designed/installed system (i.e. the mixture would atomize properly, so there would not be any liquid to cause problems).

MRAMG1 - you've got water in your mixture now pre-blower, my friend... how much or little is based on the ambient humidity that day.

The possible issue of concern, as explained to me by a very knowledgeable forum member, is that our supercharger blades are coated to suppress noise, and the corrosive properties of the water/meth mix MIGHT be sufficient to wear down that coating, causing it to flake off and enter the engine.

My question, as a possible solution - could a water/meth kit be plumbed with a "T" and two nozzles/jets, each drilled/tapped and injecting into the entry pipe for each side's intake plenum? Or, I suppose it could be located pre-throttle body, perhaps.

For those that want to learn more, I found this link to be a good review of the set-up options:

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...icle_info.html

[MRAMG1]

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

If I understand water/meth injection systems properly - hydrolock will not be an issue with a properly designed/installed system (i.e. the mixture would atomize properly, so there would not be any liquid to cause problems).

MRAMG1 - you've got water in your mixture now pre-blower, my friend... how much or little is based on the ambient humidity that day.

]

Yes, you are correct about water, ie humidity already in the mixture.

Please look at post #19

If you injected it post blower, than I could see this being a viable route.

Good luck to all.

See yeah

PS: Alcohol/Methanol is NOT a very reactive substance and I would find it hard to beleive that it would damage the Teflon coating. Could it happen, sure anything is posiable. Again, I simply highly doubt it.

[bobby02c32AMG]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all your feedback. I am a little confused about it since there are different views about a kit like this. Maybe sprayin post blower is the way to go?
And yes I am getting a kit that sprays when you hit a certian boost level and it sprays more as boost goes up.
Thanks again guys, and keep the feedback coming

[NitrogenBalance]

How much boost are you running total? Also, the C32 doesn't use an MAF correct?

Did you got with snowperformance, coolingmist, etc..?

Funny thing is that I bought, gave up, and sold a nice coolingmist kit months ago. I was given a snowperformance kit recently for a favor, and installed it last weekend for the hell of it. The coolingmist kits are the best from what I've gathered the past months of researching. The kit I sold used IAT, boost, and MAF voltage as signals, + many more signal options. I was goning to use Boost and IAT's as activation, and MAF for ramping up the flow amount in relation. .

For the snowperformance kit I've got now I'm using MAF for signal. Going to play with it this week. I'll let you know how I make out.

[bobby02c32AMG]

Originally Posted by NitrogenBalance

How much boost are you running total? Also, the C32 doesn't use an MAF correct?

Did you got with snowperformance, coolingmist, etc..?

Funny thing is that I bought, gave up, and sold a nice coolingmist kit months ago. I was given a snowperformance kit recently for a favor, and installed it last weekend for the hell of it. The coolingmist kits are the best from what I've gathered the past months of researching. The kit I sold used IAT, boost, and MAF voltage as signals, + many more signal options. I was goning to use Boost and IAT's as activation, and MAF for ramping up the flow amount in relation. .

For the snowperformance kit I've got now I'm using MAF for signal. Going to play with it this week. I'll let you know how I make out.

Thanks, keep me posted as I am curious to know how you like it

[CLKCLK]

[Newzchspy]

[quote=MRAMG1;3053636]Hey Bobby:

I have warned others on this issue before, and I will gladly do it again.

Our blowers, being a Lysholm screw type, sorry for the spelling, operates on only a few thousandth's clearance. As you may know it is clearanced for AIR only. This is VERY important, as fluids CANNOT be compressed. If your system is spraying before the supercharger you are GREATLY risking it doing what is referred to as a "Hydrolock" Thanks for the spell check below.
Please feel free to contact ANY positive displacement blower manufacturer and they will inform you that they set up the clearance for a EITHER a dry or wet system. AKA there is ALOT more clearance for a WET style, aka dragsters. I looked into this a while back for my Stang, as it had a Kenne Bell Whipple, aka Lysholm screw, and they informed me " Under NO circumstances do you want to run ANY liquid through the supercharger" Do what you like, but I would NEVER risk it my friend.


I think Jerry runs one of these, doesn't he???


Air is a fluid, anything that "flows" is a fluid. Its more accurate to say that the water would not compress. Thus MrAmg is accurate in saying that the tolerances of our SC will not allow the water to flow and BOOM, there goes about $5 K. I hope my classes in "fluid dynamics" did not fail me. I agree that if you're going to do it, you're taking a great risk.

[bobby02c32AMG]

Lets hear some more people opinions...I am going to get it done tomorrow and I will keep everyone posted

[loungn14]

Originally Posted by Newzchspy

I think Jerry runs one of these, doesn't he???

Nope, he just added a second tank in the trunk for fluid.

Bobby,

Are you doing this for cooling or more for hp?

You are not the only one to try injection in this engine. It has been done.

[mrphotoman]

Originally Posted by MRAMG1

You are wrong thinking that if it is Alcohol, Methanol, or any other liquid, that it can not cause a lock to the impellers, pardon my spell checker. I said it before and I will say it again, you CAN NOT compress ANY liquid, period. This is why I looked into using NOS on my car, simply for its cooling capacity, and of course it being a GAS. Oh well to each his own best of luck to you.

See yeah

PS: As I mentioned, YES it has been done and it can work. Just don't come crying in the end, or should I say your superchargers end

lol thousands of people use meth injection and i have yet to read of one single person that has hydrolocked lmao.

oh well.....

[bobby02c32AMG]

Originally Posted by loungn14

Nope, he just added a second tank in the trunk for fluid.

Bobby,

Are you doing this for cooling or more for hp?

You are not the only one to try injection in this engine. It has been done.

Im sure it has, just nobody has really said anything about themselves using it and maybe you know but I really don't know too much about it...it seems like a lot of people on this thread are curious about it including me so I take it they would also be curious to how it is and how one likes it...

[MRAMG1]

Originally Posted by mrphotoman

lol thousands of people use meth injection and i have yet to read of one single person that has hydrolocked lmao.

oh well.....

Are they on a car that has Lysholm Screw supercharger? In a word NO. AS I said before to each his own, I know I wouldn't. Heck, even the FEW, emphasis FEW, that have tried it here have NEVER psoted back ANY positive gains

Oh well, you win, me bad

See yeah


Okay, I took it upon myself to call tihe Kenne Bell Tech support 909-941-0985 on this meth/alcohol injector. They STILL recomend it post blower for your best efiecency, HOWEVER when asked, they were NOT concerned with locking up the blower if you would inject pre blower. SO I Humbly bow and say have it

[MRAMG1]

Originally Posted by Newzchspy

[
Air is a fluid, anything that "flows" is a fluid. .

Sorry chappy, air is a gas. Look over those fluid dynamic books again. JK.

See yeah

[AMGSC]

Originally Posted by bobby02c32AMG

Im sure it has, just nobody has really said anything about themselves using it and maybe you know but I really don't know too much about it...it seems like a lot of people on this thread are curious about it including me so I take it they would also be curious to how it is and how one likes it...

I had a Coolmist Vari-Cool II on my car for over 1 yr. It made a BIG difference especially on hot days here in So. Cal. The beneficial side-effect of octane boost from the methanol will only help with performance only if your car is tuned for it runnning at all times. If you forget to fill the tank, then there is a chance of major detonation due to the advanced timing and leaner setting (assumes methanol supplements fuel supply).

[NitrogenBalance]

Got the system up and running today. I'll post pictures if your interested. Came out super clean. It's a trunk mount kit, snowperformance MAF based kit. I only had time to play with it for a few minutes road tested. IAT's were noticably about 30 -40 degrees lower across the board. I've got to play with the settings a bit before I put it on the dyno. I've got max spray set to 4.9V as that is what my MAF pegs out at.(assume I did the right thing here) I've got to tweak the onset which was around 2.5V and it was on probably more than needed noticably from the short drive I took. I went through a fair amount of fluid using a 375ml nozzle post blower. Think I'm spraying too much. I only used distilled water as I plan on tweaking a bit and will wait for dyno & A/F reading before adding the 50/50 mix.

I think it is known that most of the power available is through timing advance which makes perfect sense. In my case my car is at stock timing and I don't plan on changing that. The factor that sold me on the meth/H20 kit is that my SC has no means of cooling and I simply can't fit an effective intercooler anywhere. I have data showing how bad my car is effected by heat and pulling timing in response. I would bet my car makes it's full power around 50 degrees outside and thats probably it.

So far it seems this might be the answer to my heat issues. The only variable I will have to figure is the refill/usage rate. I'm going to most likely install a much larger tank out back.

[mkonei]

not sure on the voltage setup, sorry. i had the Snow kit before, but i had it on a hobbs switch@7lbs. what is the benefit of using MAF voltage versus a boost referenced switch?

[Eleventeen]

I don't really understand the debate on pre-blower / post-blower. It's a no brainer. Go post blower; clearances and possible blower damage aside, it makes no sense to me to spray the ambient air and cool it a few degrees just to heat it right back up in the blower. The heat isn't created until the air goes through the supercharger and gets compressed. Once this happens, then you need to cool it (hence the reason your intercooler is located AFTER the supercharger). Do you fellas want to burn toast or tires?

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by Eleventeen

I don't really understand the debate on pre-blower / post-blower. It's a no brainer. Go post blower; clearances and possible blower damage aside, it makes no sense to me to spray the ambient air and cool it a few degrees just to heat it right back up in the blower. The heat isn't created until the air goes through the supercharger and gets compressed. Once this happens, then you need to cool it (hence the reason your intercooler is located AFTER the supercharger). Do you fellas want to burn toast or tires?

While I agree post-blower is the way to go with our cars - most claim there just aren't really too many good options for nozzle location post-blower.

Also, there are certainly benefits to injecting pre (or pre AND post) turbo/supercharger. Did anyone bother to read the link I posted in post #8? It really is good info...