May have hit a fatal flaw with the SC mod

[hooleyboy]

So today I had a chance to compare my C55 motor to an E55 motor. The reality of adding an an AMG supercharger to a C55 or even a CLK55(w209) is grim. With out any shop advice and just eying it up for about 30 min. I made a list as to why this Supercharger wont fit. here they are 1) stacked crank pulley maybe to close if not hit the fan. 2) Oil filter housing is well in the way to run a belt off a stacked pulley up to the SC. 3) coolant hose is also in the way. For me to get this job done I would need the whole front pulley setup off an M113K. Not just a pulley here and there but the whole thing. Another option is to use one belt to run everything. Much like the C32's have but that would call for some reworking of the guide and tensioner pulleys that lead over to the SC. So it seems like this project may have hit a fatal flaw. I don't mind springing for some brackets and pulleys but there is a line between realistic and ridiculous. If this project to retro fit an AMG SC to a C55 did get done it would have to be run on one belt other wise the C55 dose not have the room to clear the fan, oil filter and coolant lines. I will take it to the shop and see what they think, But IMO I dont think it can be done. O well, Nothing a few beers cant take care of. I will go forced induction one way or another.

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[kindafast]

Sorry to hear man.
You could always just get an E55, or put the m113k into your C55
In my opinion there are so many better ways to get the horsepower you are looking for, turbocharging an E46 M would give you 600-700 or so whp depending on the stage. But you probably know all this yourself...

Well good luck with what ever you decide on

[JYOO]

How hard or how much would it cost to get Vortech or ATI to build a centrifual blower kit to fit?

[Gramma_Benz]

Awwww dude, I was hoping not to hear this. I wanted to see this super long thread and in about 2 months a Dyno run.

Howabout this instead?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/pts/992081715.html

[spr]

that's just an m113 not k.

[Gramma_Benz]

Originally Posted by spr

that's just an m113 not k.

Ooops, my bad.

[viper501]

Originally Posted by JYOO

How hard or how much would it cost to get Vortech or ATI to build a centrifual blower kit to fit?

This is exactly what I've been wondering for a while now. Admittedly, the centri units are not terribly efficient but at the low pressures were looking at for a stock C55's internals, I think it would be a hoot.

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by viper501

This is exactly what I've been wondering for a while now. Admittedly, the centri units are not terribly efficient but at the low pressures were looking at for a stock C55's internals, I think it would be a hoot.

To my knowledge, this is the exact approach that Kleemann takes for their C55 and CLK55 blower kits. Think they had an end-of-the-year special on the whole kit for about 8 grand...

[jturkel]

Originally Posted by kindafast

turbocharging an E46 M would give you 600-700 or so whp depending on the stage.

no chance....those motors are weak as hell.....i know someone running down here in tucson on a s/c E46 barely making 7lbs of boost....those things are way too high compression and you wont get much out of them unless ou redo the entire motor. they just break too easily.

[ScottW911]

I hate to be the "I told you so" kind of person here, but didn't Vadim suggest that this would be bigger than you might want to take on?

I hope this in not a BOWOT (Big old waste of time) for you and you can re-coup the cost you have in so far. Good luck with which ever direction you decide to go in.

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by jturkel

no chance....those motors are weak as hell.....i know someone running down here in tucson on a s/c E46 barely making 7lbs of boost....those things are way too high compression and you wont get much out of them unless ou redo the entire motor. they just break too easily.

OT, but I think kindafast is referring to horsepowerfreaks and their e46 M3 turbo kits. They've gotten as much as 900 rwhp from that engine - IIRC, it's $35k+ for just the parts... pretty astounding performance though, IMHO.

EDIT: if you haven't already, read this thread Why are there 1000 M3s but no 1000 HP AMGs?

[kindafast]

[quote=jturkel;3281261]

Originally Posted by kindafast

turbocharging an E46 M would give you 600-700 or so whp depending on the stage.
/QUOTE]

no chance....those motors are weak as hell.....i know someone running down here in tucson on a s/c E46 barely making 7lbs of boost....those things are way too high compression and you wont get much out of them unless ou redo the entire motor. they just break too easily.

What DTM said, look into HPS, they are making a stageII kit for the E46M for about $20k or so which puts you into 600whp range.

[hooleyboy]

I'm going to take it to the shop and see what they think, Maybe they are a bit more optimistic than I am, They are friends of mine so they will give it to me strait. I personally dont think it can be done. I will know more this week if this project is going to move forward but as of right now it looks grim.

[Oliverk]

Originally Posted by viper501

This is exactly what I've been wondering for a while now. Admittedly, the centri units are not terribly efficient but at the low pressures were looking at for a stock C55's internals, I think it would be a hoot.

certainly more efficient than a roots or twin screw.

less efficient than a turbo, but about as efficient as it gets for a belt driven compressor.

[hooleyboy]

House of Power's Vortech kit for the clk looks nice

[wawy]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

House of Power's Vortech kit for the clk looks nice

Is this a custom one-off job or do they actually have an application for this engine?

[hooleyboy]

no they have a kit.
http://www.hopracing.com/HoP%20Stg%20I.php

[spr]

Costs? Stinks that it's not intercooled. They should do a water to air intercooler like vf engineering uses for the porsche's.

[hooleyboy]

it does stink that there is no IC.

[Vadim @ FD]

Josh at House of Power is an old friend of mine who used to work for me for a number of years. He still has the parts to make the kit, but has moved on to doing Chryslers and old muscle cars.

I have had a number of local clients asking me about going Vortech route on their W210 and W208 55s.

If there is enough interest we can bring it back as non-IC kit with 5psi and IC kit with 9 + psi.

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by Vadim @ VRP

Josh at House of Power is an old friend of mine who used to work for me for a number of years. He still has the parts to make the kit, but has moved on to doing Chryslers and old muscle cars.

I have had a number of local clients asking me about going Vortech route on their W210 and W208 55s.

If there is enough interest we can bring it back as non-IC kit with 5psi and IC kit with 9 + psi.

Would that also work for the w203 and w209 N/A 55s? If not, it doesn't really help the OP here, unless I misunderstand somehow?

[hooleyboy]

how about IC @ 7psi? IT would be fun to see a vortech or paxton 55. Here in AZ inter cooling would be a must i would think. Vadim do you know what model blower they used? I think this is a cool idea since vortech offers a number of pulleys so the boost could be dialed in with out having to make a whole bunch of custom parts. I would guess a kit like this could be done around the $5000-6000 mark guessing of course. I tell you what the lat thing i need is the marbles turning in my head on another idea.

[aleksandar1099]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

House of Power's Vortech kit for the clk looks nice

That looks pretty cool

GL with whatever road you go down.... e55 supercharger or the HOP supercharger

It sounds like a fun project!

[dwightlooi]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

it does stink that there is no IC.

The Centrifugals may not be bad. The M113 engine basically torque cure basically fades at about 4000 rpm With power peaking at 5500 rpm or so. The Centrifugal chargers can easily be driven at a ratio to have it start making 2~ 3psi at about 3000 rpm and ramping to about 5~6 psi at 6000. Thats not a bad match for the engine. Basically arresting the torque fal off without adding any more hard to manage wheel spin down low.

There is plenty of room for an air-to-water brick along that intake pipe between the compressor outlet and the throttle. The radiator will be a little unit which looks like a tranny oil cooler, and you can easily bolt it somewhere between the bumper and the radiator or A/C condenser.

[hooleyboy]

On the c55 there is tons of room on the passenger side of the engine bay.My guess, is coming up with a pulley set up and a mounting bracket for the SC would take the most time. Once those hurdles are jumped and you can get a tune dialed in. I might and I stress "might" look into this. IMO its much more doable than an AMG retrofit. Vortech C55 sounds nice, The only think i would feel scared about would be tapping the oil pan to run to the SC, Then there is the question can this SC run on safe on MB spec oil? I guess you could get a self contained oil blower and not have to run an oil like at all. IMO this seems like the most doable bugget blower mod. You can get a used blower on ebay for around 1k and then have a shop fab up some stuff. Obviously there is more to it then that. Its might be worth thinking about though.