Autocrossed the C55 Kleemann today

[alumar]

Took the C55k out today ... wanted to get multiple angles on my 5 runs; 3 turned out pretty nice! Take a look, tell me what you think! I was on pace for 2nd - final results get posted tomorrow. Run III - Birds eye view http://videos.streetfire.net/video/M...ann_681458.htm Run IV - Level ground ; roughly same angle as the birds eye view http://videos.streetfire.net/video/M...ann_681518.htm Run V - Level ground; near end of track ; good for announcer comments (loves the sound of my car to the point he slips and cusses) http://videos.streetfire.net/video/M...ann_681500.htm Run 1 was very uneventful as I was just driving the car normally, getting my racing line. Run 2 ... I had a keychain with 2 other keys on it and mid run on one of the hard sweeper turns i swung the keys around to the point it turned my CAR off in the middle of the RUN! ... scared the crap out of me! At the end of the day... it was good to have the car back on home turf doing the due with it. Let me know which angle you guys like the best!

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[SoCalC55]

very nice!

id love to autocross mine.. but theres no way id want to destroy a set of tires, haha

[alumar]

ya those are (well were) new set of Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ... about a 1200.00 bucks every summer to keep streets on it.

[FrankW]

tire gave out at the end? should get some light weight 18's for those autox/track events

[PC Valkyrie]

Very nice videos.....loved the 2nd one the most.

Never taken the C55 to an autocross......I always figured that running the C55 on a full road course/track would be better suited to its strengths.

[FrankW]

Originally Posted by Mr. Special

very nice!

id love to autocross mine.. but theres no way id want to destroy a set of tires, haha

you can do canyons. but it's harder on your brakes.

[alumar]

no tires gave out, the announcer was commenting how I was pushing at the end...to the point the tires were giving up... I did come in hot in that last video, but those PS2's did eventually latch on allowing me to make the turn for a strong finish...im actually impressed with the level of grip they have

[c32used]

[JonMBZ]

looks like fun.. so they were new and you used up 1200 worth of tires in just those few runs? Yikes I would never do that either heh.

[alumar]

no .. i go through a set of tires in 3 months doing that ... about 10-12 autocross events, 1 or 2 road courses and about 3-4 drags (full sessions - 5 runs each at least)

[JonMBZ]

oh I could live with that. I did get to do an autocross like that before at willow springs, but it was only in C230s and 3-Series' it was an event from work and it was like a relay race between different teams. I don't know how you keep those cones up lol. I took out a good number of them.

[alumar]

I dont think I hit one on any of my runs... but that just means i wasnt pushing it hard enough

[MRAMG1]

Nice runs

Just one word of advice my friend. I have found throughout my duration of autocrossing of about 15 years, that ALL High HP cars do their BEST runs, by using the shortest route posiable. What I mean is FORGET about driving, quote the line, take the shortest route posiable, and you will be quicker. In reality, there simply is NO time to take the correct line, and the bends aren't fast enough to use the proper apex theory. Try it out next time, you won't be dispaointed.

Again, GREAT runs

See yeah

[alumar]

Originally Posted by MRAMG1

Nice runs

Just one word of advice my friend. I have found throughout my duration of autocrossing of about 15 years, that ALL High HP cars do their BEST runs, by using the shortest route posiable. What I mean is FORGET about driving, quote the line, take the shortest route posiable, and you will be quicker. In reality, there simply is NO time to take the correct line, and the bends aren't fast enough to use the proper apex theory. Try it out next time, you won't be dispaointed.

Again, GREAT runs

See yeah

I will post my first run ... all lower speed just driving the course to the point my tires started to make the griping sound; that run was a 55.9 ... my last run was a 53.7

Think there obviously could have been a few turns i could have took softer, prob enhancing my time further but it seems when i take the course at a shortest distance approach I always leave oppurtunites on the table...

[SickSpeedMonte]

Nice videos! You should rig up an incar camera next time, its pretty useful for analyzing your runs and seeing where you can generally improve. Plus it makes for some good video!

[MRAMG1]

Originally Posted by alumar

I will post my first run ... all lower speed just driving the course to the point my tires started to make the griping sound; that run was a 55.9 ... my last run was a 53.7

Think there obviously could have been a few turns i could have took softer, prob enhancing my time further but it seems when i take the course at a shortest distance approach I always leave oppurtunites on the table...

On ALL rear wheel drive, high HP cars, they tend to PUSH like a pig, aka understeer. I hope you tried the basics, front tire pressure at 45, rear at 30, and it will still plow, I'll bet.

As far as driving the shortest route, there simply is NO time for a fast in, slow out, or any of that nonesense in a autocross. ALL of my fastest times were done while driving short, and driving like I stole it. There is little to be gained by driving with fanese my friend. AKA, if using gas, push it to the floor, if brakes push it through the floor

The above worked well with a 80 zepher, not any ordinary zepher, but one that John Vermerse who started Ford Motorpsort, and gave me a truck load of parts for her. 85 camaro, 87 mustang, 91 mustang, 75 V-8 pinto, 77 V-8 mustang conversion, 95 Trans am. To name a few. Rack uped MANY first place trophies in F-Stock, B Street prepared, C prepared, E Mod, to name a few classes.

Good luck, and see yeah

[1V8C55]

Looks like a lot of fun. Thanks for sharing the videos

[billapex]

Nice, clean runs, but what a bouncy parking lot that is! Talk about challenging the suspension while you're trying to go fast!

PS2s really are great tires, but you're right--autocross is no place for finesse. It's all about man-handling the car and throwing it around to get it to do what you want.

Bill

[alumar]

Originally Posted by MRAMG1

On ALL rear wheel drive, high HP cars, they tend to PUSH like a pig, aka understeer. I hope you tried the basics, front tire pressure at 45, rear at 30, and it will still plow, I'll bet.

As far as driving the shortest route, there simply is NO time for a fast in, slow out, or any of that nonesense in a autocross. ALL of my fastest times were done while driving short, and driving like I stole it. There is little to be gained by driving with fanese my friend. AKA, if using gas, push it to the floor, if brakes push it through the floor

The above worked well with a 80 zepher, not any ordinary zepher, but one that John Vermerse who started Ford Motorpsort, and gave me a truck load of parts for her. 85 camaro, 87 mustang, 91 mustang, 75 V-8 pinto, 77 V-8 mustang conversion, 95 Trans am. To name a few. Rack uped MANY first place trophies in F-Stock, B Street prepared, C prepared, E Mod, to name a few classes.

Good luck, and see yeah

have you ever been in a S7 Kleemann? Look at my burnout vid ... there is no pushing the peddle to the floor without melting the tires off the car...

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/F...e-S_649025.htm

Notice event when I am comming out of the donut I lay down another 100ft patch ...that is the car WOT ...hense none of that on autocross course unless i want to get thrown out.

This think makes within 50RWHP as a Kenny Bell Cobra ... if driving on the street @ 30mph...with traction off, if you floor it, it will start blowing the tires off the car...

This is most evident in my first video in the winged warrior post when i overcooked the turn ... you see me step on it, then just floor it causing the tires to light up; I will post the trottle position maps i recorded with REV... i was at 40% throttle, then then momment i planted 100% the tires started melting

[MRAMG1]

Originally Posted by alumar

have you ever been in a S7 Kleemann? Look at my burnout vid ... there is no pushing the peddle to the floor without melting the tires off the car...

Notice event when I am comming out of the donut I lay down another 100ft patch ...that is the car WOT ...hense none of that on autocross course unless i want to get thrown out.

This think makes within 50RWHP as a Kenny Bell Cobra ... if driving on the street @ 30mph...with traction off, if you floor it, it will start blowing the tires off the car...

This is most evident in my first video in the winged warrior post when i overcooked the turn ... you see me step on it, then just floor it causing the tires to light up; I will post the trottle position maps i recorded with REV... i was at 40% throttle, then then momment i planted 100% the tires started melting

Easy big guy, easy:

First of all, my 91 stang HAD 500 RWHP, and the TA was close behind it. Heck even that lonely little Zepher had 400. YES these cars would/could shred the tires as you put it.

The key is to A: Have R tires, or B: Wait till the car is balanced. These are the ONLY two ways that you can use all of that power. And YES I would/could push my pedal to the floor and put down that much power.

I didn't follow your cars ratings, as it really doesn't matter for an autocross with all of the classes. It takes about 3-4 autocross before you get the hang of it. What I was trying to convey was that fensis does NOT win in High HP rear wheel drive cars like these. Vette's are a different story being 50/50 WB.

If you car is that much beast, then it CERTAINLY needs some suspension work to cope with all of that power, aka being able to actually use it.

Look I am not busting stones here, just pointing out some tips/facts about autocrossing. I have seen MANY High HP cars work, and MANY fail. My points/tips were just what I have seen work BEST. Sorry to get your blood boiling, as that was not my intention.

Good luck and see yeah

[spr]

Get better tires. PS2's are junk and not worth the money. Try the re11r's yokos or Z stars or go full R coumpound. These cars just can't get enough tire under them unfortunately even in NA form. At least you have an LSD!

[JG26_Irish]

Nice runs. Glad to see the AMG being competitive. I liked the 2nd run best. I'm curious of you tried running with TC off any? I don't have quite the HP you do but I seem to have slightly better results with TC off than on, cause I can rotate the back end around in the slower corners if it tries to push.

MRAMG is right, increasing front tire pressure helps but with auto-x there is never enough time to get much heat in the tires so it is slip and slid most of the way and the type of neg camber setting needed to improve that are not the best for day to day street driving. I bet that you were having to respect the throttle alot to avoid just making loads of noise and tire smoke. Thanks for posting and congrats on 3rd place.

Irish

[spr]

Btw that tire pressure analysis is wrong. I'm not going to get into it with any novice arguments any further, but more pressure in the front only makes it turn in better but grip is reduced. This is a common misconception. If you wanted more front grip or to change the bias by tire pressure you would run more pressure rear and less front. Also you would want to run lower cold pressures all around (I assume those pressures are meant as cold). I run 34/34 cold and this works well at normal temp. You may also tune your sway bars for the balance (the first place to start after alignment), since you have the H&R's. If you increase the stiffness rear (hole closer to bar) and/or decrease stifness front (hole closer to end of bar) this will decrease understeer. I assume this is your desire. BTW that 22mm eibach rear bar is a monster. If you can't get the bias you want with the H&R's as aforementioned change the rear to the eibach. I am running eibach rear with H&R front adj. The eibach rear with stock front is close but needs more in the front as it oversteers.

In addition, the car appears really low and raked in the front having more weight on the front won't help with 1. understeer and 2. traction of rear. You may check that. I'm running about 1 finger all around with very flared rear fenders as I'm running 235/265 z stars which are more like 245/275 section widths.

As it's brabus suspension, that's what just springs and shocks? You may go to coilovers it will help incredibly. Likewise the camber is an issue. What is your car set at front and rear? I'm running stock clk63 black series settings at -1.75 f/r and it works very well with the z stars which are close to R compounds and make ps2's look like contis. You can also run more rear toe. I run .50 total rear and it makes it turn in very well. I also have a clk63bs rack and front end so...yeah. Just some ideas.

Of course being smoother and not worrying about speed is also ahem, the best way to be fast.

[MRAMG1]

Since there has been some mis comunication going on here. I invite you all to read a little handling 101 outline:

http://www.rogerkrausracing.net/Unde...er_Steer_.html

Enjoy guys, and let the good times roll

[alumar]

Originally Posted by JG26_Irish

Nice runs. Glad to see the AMG being competitive. I liked the 2nd run best. I'm curious of you tried running with TC off any? I don't have quite the HP you do but I seem to have slightly better results with TC off than on, cause I can rotate the back end around in the slower corners if it tries to push.

MRAMG is right, increasing front tire pressure helps but with auto-x there is never enough time to get much heat in the tires so it is slip and slid most of the way and the type of neg camber setting needed to improve that are not the best for day to day street driving. I bet that you were having to respect the throttle alot to avoid just making loads of noise and tire smoke. Thanks for posting and congrats on 3rd place.

Irish

I run in dyno mode with most runs. So traction is off.

R Compounds will help the most and maybe a little less speed through the course catering to improved driving line. That course was very quick (little bumpy) ...but very quick for an autocross course. The higher HP cars did get an advantage.

I am extracing my throttle position for a few of the runs to show you where it was at through most of the course. The Michelin Pilots are great tires for streets, actually better than any tire I have ever had on any car, but still nowhere near R compounds.