Bif powell

Where would I look to find the fuel pump flow rates for the C32 vs. the C320 or C350 (if there was a 3.5 liter at that time).

[I'm asking this for a friend who is doing a C32 drive-train swap into a 300SE]

We did not obtain the tank from the the donor C32 as we couldn't put it under the rear seat (as in C-Class) anyway. One side combines the delivery pump AND a fuel level sensor. On the other side of driveshaft hub is a second fuel sensor without a pump.

We intend to cut a hole in the original 300SE tank to mount the C32 combination pump & fuel level sensor. Due to it's high cost ($1200) I wonder if we can use a salvaged pump. This leads to the question: is the output of the C320 pump the higher than the C32 pump? Or the C55, or E something... to make salvage searching easier.

Many thanks!

anisamy1

I don't think the output will be higher. It will be same.

John R. Olson

I confess, I'm the friend, and I gabbled my question... I sort'a assumed the C32 and C55 would require a higher capacity fuel delivery unit considering their substancially higher HP & torque. Studying MB's part numbers the C32's combine 'delivery unit' WITH fuel level sensor does have a different part number than the C320. Trying to confirm what the difference is, is a mystery. MB's number for this part is A 203 470 30 41 with a retail price of $1,200 (can this be right?).

At the same time My Garage is offering an MB "original equipment" combine pump and fuel sensor specifically for the C32 for $411 claiming a $73 savings. Hmm, that would be $484, not $1,200. When asked, My Garage assured me it is am MB unit and further, that it fits the C320 as well. Is "fits" the key word here? Might a lower priced C-Class pump w/fuel sensor "fit" but not have the intended flow capacity ...with pedal to the metal? Thus my question to our AMG experts re C320, C32 and C55 flow capability per minute.

Or, in anyone successfully getting their ECU to talk nice to an after market pump with fuel level sensor?

rockjock

fitting means its the same mounting points (they are the same gas tanks)-as for more power=higher flow-not for all applications-the fuel trim maps that the stock C320 ECU has can be lower then the C32, on the same pump, injectors, ect-
one thing I've learned about AMG's-stick with the part # that goes with your car-short cuts usually mean more headaches down the road-
yes its more expensive....but everyone/someone would have posted that we can save 66% on a fuel set up at some point on here....

rockjock

fitting means its the same mounting points (they are the same gas tanks)-as for more power=higher flow-not for all applications-the fuel trim maps that the stock C320 ECU has can be lower then the C32, on the same pump, injectors, ect-
one thing I've learned about AMG's-stick with the part # that goes with your car-short cuts usually mean more headaches down the road-
yes its more expensive....but everyone/someone would have posted that we can save 66% on a fuel set up at some point on here....

John R. Olson

With all due respect, I would like to learn the original fuel pump flow capabilities of the C32 vs. the C320, C55 and any other combine delivery unit with fuel level sensor that can speak to AMG's ECUs. For decades M-B published a compact, annual "Techical Data Passenger Cars" book with every imaginable specification for that year's cars. What is the eqivalent of that today? I believe there (still) are federal laws requiring manufacturer's to disclose everything an owner or independent mechanic would need to service any product sold in the USA. When M-B charges $484 for one pump and $1200 for another pump I want to know why it is 3 times as expensive besides AMG lettering (which probably isn't on the pump anyway). No one in MBWorld have this info?

jacek9478

C32 part # for Bosch replacement fuel pump is 0 986 580 183 or 0 986 580 184
the same part # applies to C320.
Link to bosch website : Mercedes-Benz listed on pages 89-90
http://www.bosch.com.au/content/lang...l_Pump_WEB.pdf

Jack

jacek9478

the link above also provides flow rates for various fuel pump applications.

John R. Olson

Bingo! That's what I was looking for... Thanks Jacek 9478 (whomever you are). I suspected there was a significant difference in fuel required by the C32... and thanks to Bosch rather than MB for the answer:
. . C240: maximum flow required: 120
. . C320: maximum flow required: 160
. . C 32 AMG: max. flow required: 260
and for comparison...
. . S-Class V12 max flow required: 300
The 2009 Bosch Fuel Pumps ("delivery units") Products Book is dripping with information. It does appear that the C320 and C32 pumps are interchangeable, though there is a four connector plug version and a five connector plug version. MBWorld came through with answers!
John
. 1985 300 TD (123 Wagon) - Arguably the best car MB has built in 100 years
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. 1963 300 SE Fintail (112 Sedan) -Detuned 300SL engine with air suspension)
. 1963 300 SE AMG (112 Coupé) -With AMG V6 transplant and air suspension)
. 1959 300 SL Roadster (198) - Owned for 20 yrs this year. Veteran of 4 La Carrera PanAmericana
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ML500K

the number you quoted is not flow required, its KW. 260KW translates roughly to 348.6HP

John R. Olson

You're right! Darn. The huge Bosch Fuel Pump Product Catalog abandons it's flow rate column for pumps after page 60. Why is that? No longer relevant? Elsewhere the catalog tells us normal flow rates are 1 to 1.5 liters per 30 seconds based on engine requirements. Is this saying even the V12 or 6.9 liter V8 doesn't require more than 3 liters a minute at 155+ mph, and the pump can accept sufficient kilowatts to preserve the volume on call? I would have expected the flow rate to climb beyond a fixed volume if performance keeps climbing. What am I missing here?

hothbl

The C32's fuel pump is made by PIERBURG as I know. Below is the picture for fuel pump unit. This pump is from 2001 C32.





I find the pump data from PIERBURG as below. You can see the Volume flow is 130 l/h. This pump unit is same with BMW E39 series.






I don't think the C32 fuel pump module is same with othe W203. There are two fuel pump in the fuel pump module. The big one is main pump for fuel deliver, The small one is assist to fill fuel to pump module. Only C32 has two fuel pump in the same fuel module in W203 series.

MRAMG1

That's interesting, I NEVER knew AMG MADE a 2001 C32

John R. Olson

Thanks hothbl! You have fed my suspicions that the C32 pump is not the same as C320, even though six people have told me the pumps are interchangable. Perhaps the same C320 pump will run the car, but it stands to reason that when doing 0 - 60 in 5 seconds the C32 would expect a whole lot more volume of fuel... while maintaining constant pressure. One schematic of the fuel lines shows a fuel regulator type filter only for the C32. Might one of those canisters in your 3rd photo be Fuel filter with internal regulator #A 002 477 30 01? It is available separately for $115. Does that mean that canister unit can be disassembled for repair? I note there is a pre-and post September 28 2001 pump. Which is yours?
.
Call me collect if you'd prefer to talk on the phone, at 612-377-0155, daytime or evening.

hothbl

All the W203 use the same fuel filter except for C55 and C350 as I know.
The filter including fuel regulator and the fuel pressure default is
3.5 - 3.8 kg/cm2. The below schematic is for all the W203.The part 130 is the fuel filter.

Solols

hothbl, sounds like you are the first person on the planet to delve into the mysteries of the C32 fuel delivery pump! I suppose this is a sign that they're not failing often. Were you able to repair the module you opened? I hope so as that second pump in the module triples M-B suggestion retail price. My dealer sez it will cost $1,200, vs. $460 for a C320 "delivery unit". That should be able to fix a lota' innards! Is there room in there to upgrade a C320 pump for C32 engines? Anyone know if the C55 and C63 also use a double pump module to ensure sufficent fuel for the regulator (in the filter) with pedal to the metal? Might be a repair service worth perfecting. I'll be customer #1.

Gramma_Benz

Actually, some C32's were made in 2001, but were actually 2002 models.

Beaker

I drive a C32 with 09/01 build..

Is this a 2001 model or 2002 model :S

John R. Olson

US Sales of the C32 and SLK began in 2001, directly from MBNA's US sales records are these numbers:
Calendar C-32 AMG .. .. CLK 32 AMG
2000 .. .. .. 0 .. .. .. .. .. .. 0
2001 .. .. 809 .. .. .. .. .. 702
2002 .. 1,090 .. .. .. .. .. 675
2003 .. .. 656 .. .. .. .. .. 461
2004 .. .. 139 .. .. .. .. .. 190
In Europe it is possible a few C32 were on the street in 2000.
A friend in England said he's seen C32 Coupés in London.

John Olson
Editor, The SL Market Letters
www.slmarket.com

rockjock

Just learned from my dealer and MBZ that the C55 doesnt have a "fuel filter" that gets replaced-its part of the whole assembly in the tank-huh. Good to know (until it does go out....)

hothbl

Yes! we can repair the fuel module after change the fuel pump. We always just change the fuel pump unit in Taiwan. Don't need replace the whole fuel module.

ML500K

so can the c32 use a c320 fuel pump with no problems?

TemjinX2

i'm having a lean issues as well. If i can't solve it with a tune, does anyone know if its possible to retrofit on a aftermarket fuel pump? maybe a external one to supplment the internal one.

razormb

What about this SL55 fuel pump mod from TVT;

hothbl

When did you get lean issue?? The ECU can't provide enough fuel when over
130kPa(around 19 psi). This is a limit ! You can use a MAP clamp tool to improve it. I has tested it and working on my C32.