TVT Design, Project C43
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
TVT Design, Project C43
Well we've just acquired our C43 from Dave this morning and are ready to dig into it and get some good number.
We'll be trying for some dyno numbers this week for a baseline and then go to the ECU tuning from there.
Our goal is to get it to 350 Crank HP. Yes it is very optimistic, but we will be doing it in stages. First shoot for 320 HP with tuning, then 335 HP with bolt ons, and finally our goal with some more radical mods.
Stay tuned for the results.
We'll be trying for some dyno numbers this week for a baseline and then go to the ECU tuning from there.
Our goal is to get it to 350 Crank HP. Yes it is very optimistic, but we will be doing it in stages. First shoot for 320 HP with tuning, then 335 HP with bolt ons, and finally our goal with some more radical mods.
Stay tuned for the results.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
We hit the dyno today to get a baseline. 239 RWHP/224 RWTQ
On the dyno graph it shows peak power at 4600 RPM, because of an error inputting the final drive ratio. So the graph shows 215 RWHP, but if you use the formula (TQ*RPM)/5252= HP, you get 239.
Car has KN filters, all else is stock. There is deffinately room for some tuning on the ignition side, but the AFR looks pretty spot on.
Graphs attached.
On the dyno graph it shows peak power at 4600 RPM, because of an error inputting the final drive ratio. So the graph shows 215 RWHP, but if you use the formula (TQ*RPM)/5252= HP, you get 239.
Car has KN filters, all else is stock. There is deffinately room for some tuning on the ignition side, but the AFR looks pretty spot on.
Graphs attached.
Last edited by TVT_DESIGN; Feb 12, 2009 at 06:35 PM.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
I figure the DT loss to be at about 23% (dyno owner said 25%). That would put crank HP at 310 HP which I'm attributing to the KN and x-pipe. That puts TQ at the crank at 290. Lower then stock, but a dyno is just a tool.
Basically the numbers are just there for a reference point. I'm pretty sure that when we dyno it again we're going to leave everything the same (wrong rear diff) so as not have to add in formulas and skew results.
Our first round of mods will be tuning and ignition as I see that as the biggest reason for the valleys in the TQ graph.
Another dyno to follow soon.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,494
Likes: 17
From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
It's a dynapack dyno.
I figure the DT loss to be at about 23% (dyno owner said 25%). That would put crank HP at 310 HP which I'm attributing to the KN and x-pipe. That puts TQ at the crank at 290. Lower then stock, but a dyno is just a tool.
Basically the numbers are just there for a reference point. I'm pretty sure that when we dyno it again we're going to leave everything the same (wrong rear diff) so as not have to add in formulas and skew results.
Our first round of mods will be tuning and ignition as I see that as the biggest reason for the valleys in the TQ graph.
Another dyno to follow soon.
I figure the DT loss to be at about 23% (dyno owner said 25%). That would put crank HP at 310 HP which I'm attributing to the KN and x-pipe. That puts TQ at the crank at 290. Lower then stock, but a dyno is just a tool.
Basically the numbers are just there for a reference point. I'm pretty sure that when we dyno it again we're going to leave everything the same (wrong rear diff) so as not have to add in formulas and skew results.
Our first round of mods will be tuning and ignition as I see that as the biggest reason for the valleys in the TQ graph.
Another dyno to follow soon.
Just calculate the drive train loss as a percentage of the published crank number against the baseline pull.
Dynapack is a load dyno on which you will read 25% - 30% power train loss from the published crank power.
If you were doing your pulls on an inertia dyno your readings would be 15%-18% higher.
Load dyno is best way to go as the RWP is close to what you'll put down on the road.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
So I figured it was time for an update.
These are some pics of the stock engine, airbox, and surrounding items.
The fins in the airbox seem to be beneficial, but in reality they really aren't much more then an obstruction. The fins are pre-air filter and any straightening of the air is disturbed once the air passes through the filter. We've done this on the non-AMG cars and have seen good results.
There are an additional set of fins right before the MAF opening which I assumed were directing air as well, but after taking a closer look they are an inch long and just straight.
These are some pics of the stock engine, airbox, and surrounding items.
The fins in the airbox seem to be beneficial, but in reality they really aren't much more then an obstruction. The fins are pre-air filter and any straightening of the air is disturbed once the air passes through the filter. We've done this on the non-AMG cars and have seen good results.
There are an additional set of fins right before the MAF opening which I assumed were directing air as well, but after taking a closer look they are an inch long and just straight.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
Another thing we removed was the screen Pre-MAF. The MAF has two screens already, this third screen is again a restriction. The only time this might be necessary is if you running without air filters, which I don't recommend.
Here are some after pics.
Here are some after pics.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
Here's the second screen on the MAF and then the MAF with it removed.
We also removed the fins on the elbow leading into the TB. The fins direct the air over the Oil hose and right into the dead center of the TB blade, not an ideal location. With our installation of the catch can, the vaccuum being pulled over the oil hose will not need to be as important as the entire system will be pulling from one source and not three seperate sources.
With the above mods, we've picked up 6-8 RWHP on the 3.2L v6, I'd expect 10-12 RWHP on this model and about the same for the C55/E55 (N/A).
We also removed the fins on the elbow leading into the TB. The fins direct the air over the Oil hose and right into the dead center of the TB blade, not an ideal location. With our installation of the catch can, the vaccuum being pulled over the oil hose will not need to be as important as the entire system will be pulling from one source and not three seperate sources.
With the above mods, we've picked up 6-8 RWHP on the 3.2L v6, I'd expect 10-12 RWHP on this model and about the same for the C55/E55 (N/A).
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
And finally the disection of the engine.
We're going to be cleaning up the intake manifold and mildly ported the top end runners. This is basically the last time it will need to be cleaned, with the catch can installed very little oil makes it in here.
I also attached a pic of the dirty EGR tube. You can remove this with no ill effects but a CEL.
Also you can see where a little critter had set up camp in the cylinder bank.
We're going to be cleaning up the intake manifold and mildly ported the top end runners. This is basically the last time it will need to be cleaned, with the catch can installed very little oil makes it in here.
I also attached a pic of the dirty EGR tube. You can remove this with no ill effects but a CEL.
Also you can see where a little critter had set up camp in the cylinder bank.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 5
From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
Ball park price is probably 175-200 range depending on what the fittings cost. The catch can alone is 100.00.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
Today we upgraded the ignition. Now Dave had told me the plugs were relatively new, but Bosch plugs are not ideal for performance. However, I wasn't going to put 16 plugs in based just on that. I pulled the plugs and noticed that the plugs in the rear of the engine were caked in oil and as you got closer to the front they were cleaner, but still looked fouled.
I felt that justified a change over to the NGK Iridium IXs and while we were at it added the Magnecor KV85 wires. With the manifold clean and catch can going in the plugs should not have oil getting all over them and thus last much longer.
We're going to finish up with porting the top part of the intake runners and get another dyno on Thursday to see where this work has taken us.
I felt that justified a change over to the NGK Iridium IXs and while we were at it added the Magnecor KV85 wires. With the manifold clean and catch can going in the plugs should not have oil getting all over them and thus last much longer.
We're going to finish up with porting the top part of the intake runners and get another dyno on Thursday to see where this work has taken us.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
We moved onto step 2 of our manifold work today. The top is cleaned and the runners are in the final stage of porting/polishing.
We will also be upgrading the injectors a tiny but larger, but with better atomization. This should improve the TQ curve. The stock green injectors are about 26 lbs/hr, not insignificant for the engine, but the technology of them is quite dated. You can see the difference in the two injectors in the pic below.
We will also be upgrading the injectors a tiny but larger, but with better atomization. This should improve the TQ curve. The stock green injectors are about 26 lbs/hr, not insignificant for the engine, but the technology of them is quite dated. You can see the difference in the two injectors in the pic below.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 5
From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
We moved onto step 2 of our manifold work today. The top is cleaned and the runners are in the final stage of porting/polishing.
We will also be upgrading the injectors a tiny but larger, but with better atomization. This should improve the TQ curve. The stock green injectors are about 26 lbs/hr, not insignificant for the engine, but the technology of them is quite dated. You can see the difference in the two injectors in the pic below.
We will also be upgrading the injectors a tiny but larger, but with better atomization. This should improve the TQ curve. The stock green injectors are about 26 lbs/hr, not insignificant for the engine, but the technology of them is quite dated. You can see the difference in the two injectors in the pic below.
not 26lbs. They are the same ones used in the 5.5L motor. They should be plenty fine for Dave's motor.
If I'm right even the Kleeman S/C kit allows u to use the stck inj. However,the AMG 4.3L motor and 5.5l motors use the same inj stck.
Last edited by ProjectC55; Feb 19, 2009 at 08:55 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,559
Likes: 0
From: Portsmouth, NH
none
Looks great anthony, have you seen any of the pics I posted with my intake mani port&polish? What are you using for the job? It should eat up a few days of shop labor...mine has been open for almost 1.5 years..
Also, what technology makes these injectors better? Something to do with spray pattern?? Don't know a ton about injectors so aside from the lbs. I don't know what makes a good injector
My 2cents would be to throw some gasket matched phelonics on there since you've got the manifold out.
Also, what technology makes these injectors better? Something to do with spray pattern?? Don't know a ton about injectors so aside from the lbs. I don't know what makes a good injector
My 2cents would be to throw some gasket matched phelonics on there since you've got the manifold out.
