C36 muffler project..

Z06EATER · 05-21-2009, 07:46 PM

OK FELLAS, i'm going to throw my muffler back on, i miss my back pressure , and so, wheni put this baby back on the car will be VERY quiet once more, but i want it loud, i wanna keep my stock AMG muffler, i was looking into the aftermarket ones ex. eisenmann, remus etc. but i'm pretty sure AMg didn't spend tons of money designing the AMG muffler to be worst than all these AM ones...soo, i heard some guy cut open his stock 36 muffler and pulled out the cotton steel or fabric inside, and it made the car louder, can i do this? any ideas on how to make the car loudr? is already has a magnaflow cat, i don't wanna pull out my reso, since it will probably make the car sound bad. ANY IDEAS WELCOME!

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drwavedawg · 05-21-2009, 08:55 PM

THE AMG MUFFLER IS MADE BY EISENMANN...

drwavedawg · 05-21-2009, 09:44 PM

ask the dude who cut it open what the inside inlet diameter is... i heard its much more narrow than the 70mm piping would idicate

Z06EATER · 05-21-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drwavedawg

THE AMG MUFFLER IS MADE BY EISENMANN...

this muffler is designed by eisenmann? it sounds nice, but is too quiet i just spoke to a dude, he states the stuff they fab the muffler with is just to make it quieter, i'll most likely yank some out of the muffler to get it to that sweet spot

AMS Performance · 05-22-2009, 01:10 AM

The inlet was only 2 1/4" (2.25") at the inlet of the muffler itself even though the piping leading to it was much larger. The C36 is NOT free flowing (not in the slightest) and was one of the only AMG mufflers that wasn't free flowing. Club202 had the pictures it was a restrictive baffle design. You are better off selling it for $$$ and just upgrade to something else. High flow cat will also help as well.

Z06EATER · 05-22-2009, 02:03 AM

from wat i understand ams dont these inline 6's need all the back pressure the stock system has to offer? i did notice a huge loss in low end when i took off the muffler, but i was shining up top, i even took 5.0 mustangs...so now the ? is do the inline 6's need this backpressure? or no? it def feels dif witout the muffler there....all please leave there 2 cents

drwavedawg · 05-22-2009, 10:41 AM

without the back pressure you will certainly lose low end torque.... its a compromise if you want more top end. rule of thumb is if you take from the bottom you'll gain at the top

drwavedawg · 05-22-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z06EATER

this muffler is designed by eisenmann? it sounds nice, but is too quiet i just spoke to a dude, he states the stuff they fab the muffler with is just to make it quieter, i'll most likely yank some out of the muffler to get it to that sweet spot

take pics of the inside of the muffler...

Z06EATER · 05-22-2009, 12:31 PM

ok great i think i kno what i'll do now...i'll see if i wanna cut this thing oopen still, if so, i'll take pics

drwavedawg · 05-22-2009, 07:03 PM

personally, I would just go with a eisenmann 208 clk55 race muffler... should fit and will sound insane

AMS Performance · 05-23-2009, 11:19 PM

Its not so much back pressure, as it is how the entire system is designed. If an entire system is designed to have constant back pressure throughout then you won't necessarily lose torque, even if back pressure is less. But if you have a restrictive bottle neck in the front half of the exhaust system, then all of a sudden put on a larger diameter pipe exhaust at the end it can cause a reduction in torque b/c of both back pressure loss but more importantly reduction gas velocity. If you are going to upgrade your exhaust you have to upgrade the entire system (especially the cats) as a whole, not piece by piece. Also, many people do not use mandrel bent piping, they use cehaper kink bent pipe, which also reduces performance, yet they blame "lack of back pressure" or something else when in reality that's not the reason, so its impossible to say why you feel you lost torque, the exhaust you are running may have not been built properly and is impossible to say with out any pictures. There are so many factors that can influence performance so you cannot just say reduction in back pressure = bad or some similar generalized statement.

clk55 W208 stock exhaust is an excellent candidate if it is a direct fit, its 100% free flowing resonator & muffler.

search on club202 for the thread for the C36 exhaust internal pics, I believe it was posted by "23K" if I'm not mistaken.

c280_nz · 05-24-2009, 05:44 PM

sometimes when you do a mod like this you think you loose bottom end because it pulls so much better up top it feels slow down low, but actually its the same, just more powerful up top, so the curve doesnt feel as smooth anymore

to quote 23k (paul) from club 202:

curiousity got the better as usual...and beleive me it was a tight muff to open...dirty too!
so heres a few pics to let ya all know how your C36 muff is constructed and why its so conservative...

Anyhow the plan is/was to upgrade the pipes to a larger diameter(3")....unfortunately,theres little room!

the muff is made up of three chambers...

heres a pic of the rear chamber...showing the 2 1/4 inlet which heads through the centre chamber to the front,this part was packed with fibreglass...

heres the front chamber which does not have glass packing...from this you can see exhaust gas enters the front chamber via the 2 1/4 tube and exits via the two smaller pipes above...it then goes back through the centre chamber to the rear and then returns through the center again to the front chamber and out through the tips...the center chamber is glass packed and all tubes passing through are perforated... its also difficult to remove due to it being weld in place once slipped inside the muff...

before the gas leaves the muff there is yet another perforated tube inside each Tip....

So with all these bends,reverse flow and tones of perforation...its no wonder its so quiet!...but with a tubine in line we should be able to loose alot of this and still be smooth and deepish....
next step looks like i'll build a 3" custom item with a similar style,and with out reverse flow!...

AMS Performance · 05-25-2009, 02:46 AM

Yup, that's the one. I thought it was Paul who did the writeup.

Even a good 2.5" free flowing system will do the job much better than the OEM muffler. 3.0" will drone alot and the resonance may be a bit too much, furthermore gas velocity may drop too much going to a single 3.0" setup. The stock C36 resonator is actually free flowing so if you want you can keep that intact.

Either way, if you want to upgrade the rear muffler it is recommended to upgrade to a single high flow cat (primary in this case since there are no secondaries).

drwavedawg · 06-09-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMS Performance

Yup, that's the one. I thought it was Paul who did the writeup.

Even a good 2.5" free flowing system will do the job much better than the OEM muffler. 3.0" will drone alot and the resonance may be a bit too much, furthermore gas velocity may drop too much going to a single 3.0" setup. The stock C36 resonator is actually free flowing so if you want you can keep that intact.

Either way, if you want to upgrade the rear muffler it is recommended to upgrade to a single high flow cat (primary in this case since there are no secondaries).

the supersprint system is 2.75" all the way through from the cats back. I would try to do that.

Z06EATER · 07-01-2009, 10:07 PM

sorry for not gettin back guys, but i actually, just slapped the stock muffler back on, with nothing done to it, and i took out my resonator, i have a high flow cat by magnaflow on there, and it's great, car sounds nice too, i'm just wondering if i'll pass smog with this thing, is there such things as a visual smog test?

here are some links

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...t=MOV01793.flv

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...t=MOV01791.flv

a bit raspy but i like it!

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...t=MOV01792.flv

enjoy fellas

drwavedawg · 07-01-2009, 10:50 PM

what is the inlet/outlet diameter of your magnaflow cat and your piping to the muffler?

Z06EATER · 07-03-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drwavedawg

what is the inlet/outlet diameter of your magnaflow cat and your piping to the muffler?

i'm sure it was 2.25 bro

drwavedawg · 07-04-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z06EATER

i'm sure it was 2.25 bro

wow, thats a small diameter! the stock set up from the cat back is 2.5 to the resonator, and 2.75 from the resonator to the muffler. I do realize that internally the muffler is much smaller.

I am going with 2.75 straight through. from a custom y-pipe, cat, and possibly one es-tuning muffler in front of the rear axle and another in the stock possition with custom tips. I figure given the displacement of the motor and the amount hp the c36 motors produce 2.75/70mm isnt too much.

I slso have a ported head so I really wanted to reduce back pressure to reap the benefits of that mod

Headgone · 09-19-2009, 12:06 PM

Im new to the mb way of life & Im totally confused right now about up grading the exhaust system on my 95 c36. Ive asked around a lot about upgrading the stock exhaust & ive gotten so much different feed backs. Some said to remove the cat completely, other say just the resonator, some say replace the whole exhaust system, while other say just the back pan.. AAAAH! Please HELP! The web has limited info on exhaust for these cars. What was the best upgrade with the best results u guys ever done with the stock r after market exhaust set up. Thanks in advance

Z06EATER · 09-19-2009, 05:34 PM

well, ive heard that the stock exhaust has been tuned to the motor, so i'm sure doing too much mods to the exhaust you'll lose power, the 3.6's like the back pressure, aslo drgdrav, how much power did you gain porting your head?

Headgone · 09-20-2009, 01:13 PM

I didnt do a thing to the car as yet except drop it, HID lights, Brabus 18" mono blocks, Brabus grill, HAMAN, double WING ,sarona roof spoiler, car only has 62k on it, so im looking 4 the best upgrade for me in steps. thanks in advance

drwavedawg · 09-21-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z06EATER

well, ive heard that the stock exhaust has been tuned to the motor, so i'm sure doing too much mods to the exhaust you'll lose power, the 3.6's like the back pressure, aslo drgdrav, how much power did you gain porting your head?

running 222.7 at the wheels... everything stock

AMS Performance · 09-21-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drwavedawg

running 222.7 at the wheels... everything stock

dynojet or dyno dynamics?

drwavedawg · 09-23-2009, 11:18 AM

DYNA PAK

05-22-2009, 01:10 AM	#5
AMS Performance SPONSOR Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,313 Drives: AMG	The inlet was only 2 1/4" (2.25") at the inlet of the muffler itself even though the piping leading to it was much larger. The C36 is NOT free flowing (not in the slightest) and was one of the only AMG mufflers that wasn't free flowing. Club202 had the pictures it was a restrictive baffle design. You are better off selling it for $$$ and just upgrade to something else. High flow cat will also help as well. __________________ << E55, C55, CLK55, CL55, SL55, SLK 55, S55 Headers >> << New W202 C43 AMG Stage 2 Performance Package !! >> << New 230, 280, 350 & 550 Pulleys for M272 & M273!! >> << Gen2 C36 / C280 / E320 M104 OEM+ Pulley Design! (under $300) >> (contact via email for more details) << M119 Performance OEM+ Dampers now available! >> <<< AMS WEBSITE >>> (New Products)

05-22-2009, 02:03 AM	#6
Z06EATER Super Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CA BayArea Posts: 804 Drives: 1997 C36AMG	from wat i understand ams dont these inline 6's need all the back pressure the stock system has to offer? i did notice a huge loss in low end when i took off the muffler, but i was shining up top, i even took 5.0 mustangs...so now the ? is do the inline 6's need this backpressure? or no? it def feels dif witout the muffler there....all please leave there 2 cents __________________ 18" Twin Spokes- Smoked Tails-smoked corners- Eyelids-8000k HID KIT-Magnaflow High flow Cat- Muffler Delete(Straight Pipe)-H & R Coils-Limo Tint- Cobra Radar Detector-JL W6 V2- JL 500/1 slash series V2 Amp- Alpine Flip out 7" screen Deck- JL Evolution Tweeters

05-22-2009, 12:31 PM	#9
Z06EATER Super Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CA BayArea Posts: 804 Drives: 1997 C36AMG	ok great i think i kno what i'll do now...i'll see if i wanna cut this thing oopen still, if so, i'll take pics __________________ 18" Twin Spokes- Smoked Tails-smoked corners- Eyelids-8000k HID KIT-Magnaflow High flow Cat- Muffler Delete(Straight Pipe)-H & R Coils-Limo Tint- Cobra Radar Detector-JL W6 V2- JL 500/1 slash series V2 Amp- Alpine Flip out 7" screen Deck- JL Evolution Tweeters

05-23-2009, 11:19 PM	#11
AMS Performance SPONSOR Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,313 Drives: AMG	Its not so much back pressure, as it is how the entire system is designed. If an entire system is designed to have constant back pressure throughout then you won't necessarily lose torque, even if back pressure is less. But if you have a restrictive bottle neck in the front half of the exhaust system, then all of a sudden put on a larger diameter pipe exhaust at the end it can cause a reduction in torque b/c of both back pressure loss but more importantly reduction gas velocity. If you are going to upgrade your exhaust you have to upgrade the entire system (especially the cats) as a whole, not piece by piece. Also, many people do not use mandrel bent piping, they use cehaper kink bent pipe, which also reduces performance, yet they blame "lack of back pressure" or something else when in reality that's not the reason, so its impossible to say why you feel you lost torque, the exhaust you are running may have not been built properly and is impossible to say with out any pictures. There are so many factors that can influence performance so you cannot just say reduction in back pressure = bad or some similar generalized statement. clk55 W208 stock exhaust is an excellent candidate if it is a direct fit, its 100% free flowing resonator & muffler. search on club202 for the thread for the C36 exhaust internal pics, I believe it was posted by "23K" if I'm not mistaken. __________________ << E55, C55, CLK55, CL55, SL55, SLK 55, S55 Headers >> << New W202 C43 AMG Stage 2 Performance Package !! >> << New 230, 280, 350 & 550 Pulleys for M272 & M273!! >> << Gen2 C36 / C280 / E320 M104 OEM+ Pulley Design! (under $300) >> (contact via email for more details) << M119 Performance OEM+ Dampers now available! >> <<< AMS WEBSITE >>> (New Products)

05-24-2009, 05:44 PM	#12
c280_nz Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 102	sometimes when you do a mod like this you think you loose bottom end because it pulls so much better up top it feels slow down low, but actually its the same, just more powerful up top, so the curve doesnt feel as smooth anymore to quote 23k (paul) from club 202: curiousity got the better as usual...and beleive me it was a tight muff to open...dirty too! so heres a few pics to let ya all know how your C36 muff is constructed and why its so conservative... Anyhow the plan is/was to upgrade the pipes to a larger diameter(3")....unfortunately,theres little room! the muff is made up of three chambers... heres a pic of the rear chamber...showing the 2 1/4 inlet which heads through the centre chamber to the front,this part was packed with fibreglass... heres the front chamber which does not have glass packing...from this you can see exhaust gas enters the front chamber via the 2 1/4 tube and exits via the two smaller pipes above...it then goes back through the centre chamber to the rear and then returns through the center again to the front chamber and out through the tips...the center chamber is glass packed and all tubes passing through are perforated... its also difficult to remove due to it being weld in place once slipped inside the muff... before the gas leaves the muff there is yet another perforated tube inside each Tip.... So with all these bends,reverse flow and tones of perforation...its no wonder its so quiet!...but with a tubine in line we should be able to loose alot of this and still be smooth and deepish.... next step looks like i'll build a 3" custom item with a similar style,and with out reverse flow!... Last edited by c280_nz; 05-24-2009 at 05:47 PM.

05-21-2009, 08:55 PM	#2
drwavedawg Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 27	THE AMG MUFFLER IS MADE BY EISENMANN...

05-21-2009, 09:44 PM	#3
drwavedawg Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 27	ask the dude who cut it open what the inside inlet diameter is... i heard its much more narrow than the 70mm piping would idicate

05-22-2009, 10:41 AM	#7
drwavedawg Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 27	without the back pressure you will certainly lose low end torque.... its a compromise if you want more top end. rule of thumb is if you take from the bottom you'll gain at the top

05-22-2009, 07:03 PM	#10
drwavedawg Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 27	personally, I would just go with a eisenmann 208 clk55 race muffler... should fit and will sound insane

05-25-2009, 02:46 AM	#13
AMS Performance SPONSOR Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,313 Drives: AMG	Yup, that's the one. I thought it was Paul who did the writeup. Even a good 2.5" free flowing system will do the job much better than the OEM muffler. 3.0" will drone alot and the resonance may be a bit too much, furthermore gas velocity may drop too much going to a single 3.0" setup. The stock C36 resonator is actually free flowing so if you want you can keep that intact. Either way, if you want to upgrade the rear muffler it is recommended to upgrade to a single high flow cat (primary in this case since there are no secondaries). __________________ << E55, C55, CLK55, CL55, SL55, SLK 55, S55 Headers >> << New W202 C43 AMG Stage 2 Performance Package !! >> << New 230, 280, 350 & 550 Pulleys for M272 & M273!! >> << Gen2 C36 / C280 / E320 M104 OEM+ Pulley Design! (under $300) >> (contact via email for more details) << M119 Performance OEM+ Dampers now available! >> <<< AMS WEBSITE >>> (New Products)

07-01-2009, 10:07 PM	#15
Z06EATER Super Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CA BayArea Posts: 804 Drives: 1997 C36AMG	sorry for not gettin back guys, but i actually, just slapped the stock muffler back on, with nothing done to it, and i took out my resonator, i have a high flow cat by magnaflow on there, and it's great, car sounds nice too, i'm just wondering if i'll pass smog with this thing, is there such things as a visual smog test? here are some links http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...t=MOV01793.flv http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...t=MOV01791.flv a bit raspy but i like it! http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...t=MOV01792.flv enjoy fellas __________________ 18" Twin Spokes- Smoked Tails-smoked corners- Eyelids-8000k HID KIT-Magnaflow High flow Cat- Muffler Delete(Straight Pipe)-H & R Coils-Limo Tint- Cobra Radar Detector-JL W6 V2- JL 500/1 slash series V2 Amp- Alpine Flip out 7" screen Deck- JL Evolution Tweeters

07-01-2009, 10:50 PM	#16
drwavedawg Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 27	what is the inlet/outlet diameter of your magnaflow cat and your piping to the muffler?

09-19-2009, 12:06 PM	#19
Headgone Newbie Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2 Drives: 95c36	Im new to the mb way of life & Im totally confused right now about up grading the exhaust system on my 95 c36. Ive asked around a lot about upgrading the stock exhaust & ive gotten so much different feed backs. Some said to remove the cat completely, other say just the resonator, some say replace the whole exhaust system, while other say just the back pan.. AAAAH! Please HELP! The web has limited info on exhaust for these cars. What was the best upgrade with the best results u guys ever done with the stock r after market exhaust set up. Thanks in advance

09-19-2009, 05:34 PM	#20
Z06EATER Super Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CA BayArea Posts: 804 Drives: 1997 C36AMG	well, ive heard that the stock exhaust has been tuned to the motor, so i'm sure doing too much mods to the exhaust you'll lose power, the 3.6's like the back pressure, aslo drgdrav, how much power did you gain porting your head? __________________ 18" Twin Spokes- Smoked Tails-smoked corners- Eyelids-8000k HID KIT-Magnaflow High flow Cat- Muffler Delete(Straight Pipe)-H & R Coils-Limo Tint- Cobra Radar Detector-JL W6 V2- JL 500/1 slash series V2 Amp- Alpine Flip out 7" screen Deck- JL Evolution Tweeters

09-20-2009, 01:13 PM	#21
Headgone Newbie Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2 Drives: 95c36	I didnt do a thing to the car as yet except drop it, HID lights, Brabus 18" mono blocks, Brabus grill, HAMAN, double WING ,sarona roof spoiler, car only has 62k on it, so im looking 4 the best upgrade for me in steps. thanks in advance

09-23-2009, 11:18 AM	#24
drwavedawg Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 27	DYNA PAK

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