Kleemann ECU Tune Results

[MNL ICE]

Thanks for the info..im gonna do this also.

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[MHP]

Originally Posted by E63PWR

The C63 is rated at 451 from MB. My car dynoed a max of 380 rwhp. My driveline loss I have always used on late model automatics is 18%. Divide 380 by .82 and you get 463 or within a couple of HP of the factory rating. Take the peak made with the Kleemann tune of 424 rwhp, divide that by .82 and you get 517 rating at the crank.

Pretty much spot on. We've seen 17.5% DT loss with the WA variants.

E63, any chance you can do some A/F and WOT advance logging? My dual band goes in next Mon/Tues so I'll have some baseline A/F data for the stock tune.

Thanks

[metalica_23]

Originally Posted by exiges

How much is a replacement ECU ? The reason I ask, is that while sending your chip to Kleeman for flashing is only a 48hour process .. it would be quite nice to have both a flash + unflashed version in case I needed to go to MB briefly without having to send ECUs back + forth.

I talked to Cory a little about this, but only because my concern was "dude, what if the ECU breaks in transit". It's insured needless to say, and he mentioned that for my SL600, it was about $1,800 for a new one. So, I'm guessing you can keep multiple ECUs around, if that's the path you choose to take. I'm sure some people might want to do it not just for valet mode, or stock mode, but also optimum power on pump gas vs. race fuel...

BTW, I was also worried that since my car seems to make about 40 more rwhp than other people's stock cars, I was concerned that a "flash" back to stock might actually make me much worse off than the program I'm running now. (of course, turns out my extra hp might just be due to the nicer summer conditions I run in up here in New England...)

And apparently with AMG cars, they may switch the program for each "batch" of cars. So many stock cars may have slightly different variations pm everything in the ECU. Again, this is all second hand from talking to Cory.

[Hans Delbruck]

Whoa.... This is very exciting news keep us posted on how it goes.

[Glock Guru]

I want to see some Torque numbers also.

[peet]

I don't buy for a minute that Kleeman (and others) are putting on parasitic ROMs (for lack of a better description) in this day and age. They must be flashing code - even if not through the OBDII port.

As for spare ECU - that's what I'm waiting for. How would one clone the VIN and other info into the ECU though?

Next, although your ECU is insured in shipping - how the heck do you explain that it's lost to your dealer? bzzz, you were screwing with it, we'll flag your file now.

And as for that statement about dealers not voiding warranties for mod'd ECUs - that's drunken day dreaming at its finest. BMW has been killing warranties for modded ECUs for about a year now - there are a handful of ranting threads about it. I did a ton of research on the 335 turbo piggyback situation before I ended up with a 63.

It's only a matter of time before benz does the same.

[NORTH 44 C55]

Originally Posted by Glock Guru

I want to see some Torque numbers also.

Cory told me roughly 90 lb/ft. of torque gain with the ECU and Headers. I would guess at about 55/60 with just the ECU


My Overnight FedEx box is addressed to Cory and ready to go once my car arrives and I get a few days driving on it........

[nrgy]

Did the idle and morning startup characteristics of the car stay the same with the ECU tune?

Also, out of curiosity, I'm assuming the speed limiter is removed?

Lastly, do you happen to know if one decided to add the Kleeman headers & downpipes later, would the ECU need to be resent to them for a retune?

Thanks.

[celsius]

Originally Posted by nrgy

Lastly, do you happen to know if one decided to add the Kleeman headers & downpipes later, would the ECU need to be resent to them for a retune?

Thanks.

I would just specify the ROM with headers & downpipes so that you wont have to get a retune. This is a N/A motor and at most, will only be a little off (rich) on the tune.

[MHP]

Originally Posted by peet

I don't buy for a minute that Kleeman (and others) are putting on parasitic ROMs (for lack of a better description) in this day and age. They must be flashing code - even if not through the OBDII port.

As for spare ECU - that's what I'm waiting for. How would one clone the VIN and other info into the ECU though?

Next, although your ECU is insured in shipping - how the heck do you explain that it's lost to your dealer? bzzz, you were screwing with it, we'll flag your file now.

And as for that statement about dealers not voiding warranties for mod'd ECUs - that's drunken day dreaming at its finest. BMW has been killing warranties for modded ECUs for about a year now - there are a handful of ranting threads about it. I did a ton of research on the 335 turbo piggyback situation before I ended up with a 63.

It's only a matter of time before benz does the same.

Our software allows us to reflash the existing (or spare) ECU, no piggybacks involved, and since we'll always have some in stock no downtime either. Inserting a VIN into an existing ECU is no problem.

[Glock Guru]

Originally Posted by NORTH 44 C55

Cory told me roughly 90 lb/ft. of torque gain with the ECU and Headers. I would guess at about 55/60 with just the ECU


My Overnight FedEx box is addressed to Cory and ready to go once my car arrives and I get a few days driving on it........

Thanks for the Torque numbers. I guess I will call Cory and as him if Kleemann will be at the SEMA show come Nov. in Las Vegas, NV. By that time I should be able to pick up some printed info on the subject.

-Troy

[jarjoug]

I am really interested in this Kleemann ECU flash. But I have some questions, I hope you guys can answer.
1. I live in Canada can I still send the ECU to Jason?
2. We have Kleemann authorized dealers in Canada, are all dealers created equal?
3. Where can I buy a spare ECU? so I can drive the car when my ecu is being upgraded.

Sorry if these questions are stupid, but I am new to the upgrade thing and to performance cars in general.

Thank you,

George

[peet]

C'mon MHP hurry it up

Seriously though, the spare ECU, the flexibility and your talk of proper pricing.. I'm psyched!

[celsius]

me too

[MHP]

Originally Posted by peet

C'mon MHP hurry it up

Seriously though, the spare ECU, the flexibility and your talk of proper pricing.. I'm psyched!

We're on it.
We will also modify part thorttle parameters not just copy stock tables like others, as that's where most people spend the majority of their time driving. Should feel like a completely different ride. Wonder if we can get it to chirp the 2-3?

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by NORTH 44 C55

Cory told me roughly 90 lb/ft. of torque gain with the ECU and Headers. I would guess at about 55/60 with just the ECU
.....

Let me preface this my saying I don't know much about tuning! but claiming 90 or even 55lb/ft over stock, when the SL63 is only putting out (claimed) 20 lb/ft (465) over the C63's 443 lb/ft tells me the C63 is already close to max torque levels for the engine/tranny and there isn't much to be gained (or desired IMO) by tuning. Could that figure be a wild guess maybe? Because with that much torque you are getting closer to E55 torque levels, and that car required the 5 speed auto to handle the torque....

Someone set me straight.

[exiges]

Originally Posted by MHP

We're on it.
We will also modify part thorttle parameters not just copy stock tables like others,

I'm confused again.. I thought the C63 engine was just a few degrees retarded in it's timing, rather than having the throttle parameters different to the S/CL/CLK63 .. no ? Are you a Kleeman distributor or another tuner?

You say you have spare ECUs and can patch in the VIN number etc. what is your price for that ?

On a separate note, I'd be surprised (indeed amazed) to see a gain of 90lbft of torque on a 55bhp gain. Since power is a function of torque * rpm intersecting at 5252rpm, then if my arithmetic is correct, and max power is at 6800rpm then torque would be increased by 5252/6800 * 55bhp .. which is 42lb/ft.

[dlbello]

Originally Posted by exiges

I'm confused again.. I thought the C63 engine was just a few degrees retarded in it's timing, rather than having the throttle parameters different to the S/CL/CLK63 .. no ? Are you a Kleeman distributor or another tuner?

You say you have spare ECUs and can patch in the VIN number etc. what is your price for that ?

On a separate note, I'd be surprised to see a gain of 90lbft of torque on a 55bhp gain, if my arithmetic is correct, and max power is at 6800rpm then torque would be increased by 5252/6800 * 55bhp .. which is 42lb/ft

[c32used]

Guys call L.E.T they will be offering tunes for the 6.3 engine in the near future and probably at a lower price so if you are patient then wait for L.E.T to finish a thouroughly tested tune for you all with the 6.3 engines...

[MHP]

Originally Posted by exiges

I'm confused again.. I thought the C63 engine was just a few degrees retarded in it's timing, rather than having the throttle parameters different to the S/CL/CLK63 .. no ? Are you a Kleeman distributor or another tuner?

We're not affiliated with Kleeman, Powerchips, or anyone else. We have our own proprietary software. I don't know what the Kleeman tune provides, but we will be modifying part throttle, WOT, A/F, timing, torque management on launch/shifts, etc. Apparently we will also be the only tuners to run a dual wideband in the car so we know exactly where A/F is at all times. Yes the major issue with the stock C63 tune appears to be lack of timing advance upstairs, however there's a lot left to tinker with--ie getting rid of the drive by wire delay.

You say you have spare ECUs and can patch in the VIN number etc. what is your price for that ?

I'll have pricing info available for everything in the next few weeks. Please be patient, I promise the results will be worth the relatively brief wait.

Thanks
Andy

[JBrady]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

Let me preface this my saying I don't know much about tuning! but claiming 90 or even 55lb/ft over stock, when the SL63 is only putting out (claimed) 20 lb/ft (465) over the C63's 443 lb/ft tells me the C63 is already close to max torque levels for the engine/tranny and there isn't much to be gained (or desired IMO) by tuning. Could that figure be a wild guess maybe? Because with that much torque you are getting closer to E55 torque levels, and that car required the 5 speed auto to handle the torque....

Someone set me straight.

Hans, your points are well taken and reasonable. That said it could be claimed that the gains are not necessarily peak but somewhere else in the curve. Peak numbers could certainly be close to the SL, CL, S and E63 engines with slight variances for exhaust and possibly air filter plumbing (possibly somewhat more depending on the factory programming limits for those higher stock rated 63 vehicles). I would imagine that the factory uses 91 octane for it USA tuning maps. If higher is available then more power is available with a more aggressive ignition timing map and possibly leaner fueling.

Headers could increase torque over the best baselines of the stronger stock 63s.

Still, 90lbs seems unlikely in any scenario without FI.

[MB_Forever]

Congrats, these are very good numbers... How's the car been running so far? Have you noticed any changes on idle? On Full Throttle? How about sound differences?

[xandi911]

Originally Posted by E63PWR

Hi all,

First let me tell you that I have had my C63 since late April and current have about 1500 miles on the car. It has been back to the dealer for the 1000 mile service and all checked out good. I have been on the Dyno (Dynojet) twice with this car stock and it produced consistently within 3 rwhp of each of the runs. Max #'s stock on each date were 380 rwhp and 377 rwhp.

After wanting to get my PCM tuned for a while now, I researched as much as I could on it from tuners within the continental U.S. to those overseas. I know VRP has been working on theirs with Powerchip for a while now, I chose not to go with Powerchip as the results they produced on my '07 E63 where zero. My car dyno'd exactly the same after the tune as it did before. $2K down the drain...

I was going to choose Renntech to tune the PCM but I could not digest the prices they charge to tune a PCM ($3500.!). Why offer 2 stages? Just maximize the PCM and charge a reasonable price.

I then began communication with Cory over at Kleemann USA. First rate guy with very quick responses to all my quetions via e-mail. Cory said they had results for the PCM in other C63's but only with additional mods. My car is completely stock including the charcoal filters. I decided to give it a shot with Cory (Kleemann) and sent my PCM (very easy to remove) to them overnight. I received it back overnight 2 days later and immediately put it back in the car. I drove it around for a day not really hammering on the car too much as there was a lot of traffic here (Houston). I then drove it to the dyno the next day and the first run out of the box was 424.4 RWHP at around 7100 RPM. The same RPM interval stock was 369 rwhp. This is a 55 RWHP gain at 7100 RPM! That is now 517 engine flywheel HP!

You really feel a huge difference in the mid and top of the RPM range. I took it out on the freeway and going full throttle from any speed is amazingly faster! Especially going from a 70 mph roll, the car just flies!

Bottom line is, if you own a C63 and want a professional PCM tune performed at a VERY fair price ($1495.), get that PCM out of your car and over to Cory now! This is one of the best tuning experiences I have ever had and I've had a LOT of them!

Dyno graph attached!

that GREAT! the cars is STILL LINEAR like STOCK?

what about the MPG!?!? increase so much the MPG? or keeps at the same level...?

[E63PWR]

Originally Posted by MB_Forever

Congrats, these are very good numbers... How's the car been running so far? Have you noticed any changes on idle? On Full Throttle? How about sound differences?

The drivability and start up are exactly the same as stock. Idle is also unchanged. The car is running great and more how I expected it to run from the factory. I haven't noticed a mileage change as I don't drive the car everyday. I know other people are hijacking my thread about my Kleemann tune experience but I can tell you with 100% certainty that you will not regret the Kleemann tune that comes from a very professional organization.

[gollard]

Originally Posted by E63PWR

I know other people are hijacking my thread about my Kleemann tune experience ...

what makes you feel that way???

just kiddin