Kleemann ECU Tune Results

[E63PWR]

Hi all, First let me tell you that I have had my C63 since late April and current have about 1500 miles on the car. It has been back to the dealer for the 1000 mile service and all checked out good. I have been on the Dyno (Dynojet) twice with this car stock and it produced consistently within 3 rwhp of each of the runs. Max #'s stock on each date were 380 rwhp and 377 rwhp. After wanting to get my PCM tuned for a while now, I researched as much as I could on it from tuners within the continental U.S. to those overseas. I know VRP has been working on theirs with Powerchip for a while now, I chose not to go with Powerchip as the results they produced on my '07 E63 where zero. My car dyno'd exactly the same after the tune as it did before. $2K down the drain... I was going to choose Renntech to tune the PCM but I could not digest the prices they charge to tune a PCM ($3500.!). Why offer 2 stages? Just maximize the PCM and charge a reasonable price. I then began communication with Cory over at Kleemann USA. First rate guy with very quick responses to all my quetions via e-mail. Cory said they had results for the PCM in other C63's but only with additional mods. My car is completely stock including the charcoal filters. I decided to give it a shot with Cory (Kleemann) and sent my PCM (very easy to remove) to them overnight. I received it back overnight 2 days later and immediately put it back in the car. I drove it around for a day not really hammering on the car too much as there was a lot of traffic here (Houston). I then drove it to the dyno the next day and the first run out of the box was 424.4 RWHP at around 7100 RPM. The same RPM interval stock was 369 rwhp. This is a 55 RWHP gain at 7100 RPM! That is now 517 engine flywheel HP! You really feel a huge difference in the mid and top of the RPM range. I took it out on the freeway and going full throttle from any speed is amazingly faster! Especially going from a 70 mph roll, the car just flies! Bottom line is, if you own a C63 and want a professional PCM tune performed at a VERY fair price ($1495.), get that PCM out of your car and over to Cory now! This is one of the best tuning experiences I have ever had and I've had a LOT of them! Dyno graph attached!

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[///AMG4EVER]

Congratulations on the tune! The price is very reasonable considering the gain.

At last... a thread worth replying in this room!

PM sent.

[bluejae]

wow, the price does sound reasonable.

[NORTH 44 C55]

Excellent This is what i've been saying.. Cory Rules!!!

[bigbodybeeenz]

Great post. Thank you very much. Are you planning on doing any other mods?

[gsrjc]

wow...awesome numbers. Do you plan on removing the charcoal filters to see if you can squeeze out a little more HP?

[freakyshiat]

have you checked air/fuel?

[nrgy]

Thanks for posting up the results! I was thinking about doing the ECU/header & downpipe Kleeman tune, which is roughly $5500. It looks like the headers and downpipes tack on an additional 26 hp in addition to the ECU tune. I'm coming to this conclusion going by your numbers and the dyno Kleeman provided me which resulted in 543 crank hp for their total package.

The ECU definatley is the best bang for buck!

I remember one member posted that the Powerchip tune changed the way the car idles, and he no longer had that morning startup bark/growl with the tune. Do you notice any such thing with the Kleeman tune?

[dlbello]

Does this affect the cars warranty????

[splinter]

Looks as if MB/AMG withheld a little something on their OE tune.

[TopGun32]

Originally Posted by dlbello

Does this affect the cars warranty????

its not detectable.. like a piggy back system (BMW's n54 engines)

if you are gets flashed, then you will need to send the ECU back to Kleemann.


This is great news.. .this is what we were waiting to confirm for about 6 months.

$1500 and you get 420RWHP without changing a single thing except a flash tune.

Probably not the best bang for the buck like a Turbo car, but with such a larger displacement.. there is plenty of HP and TQ to be extracted.

At 420RWHP.. I won't expect better ETA's due to traction.. but the trap speeds should be around 116-118.. M5 level.

[dremorg]

Originally Posted by E63PWR

Hi all,

First let me tell you that I have had my C63 since late April and current have about 1500 miles on the car. It has been back to the dealer for the 1000 mile service and all checked out good. I have been on the Dyno (Dynojet) twice with this car stock and it produced consistently with 3 rwhp of each of the runs. Max #'s stock on each date were 380 rwhp and 377 rwhp.

After wanting to get my PCM tuned for a while now, I researched as much as I could on it from tuners within the continental U.S. to those overseas. I know VRP has been working on theirs with Powerchip for a while now, I chose not to go with Powerchip as the results they produced on my '07 E63 where zero. My car dyno'd exactly the same after the tune as it did before. $2K down the drain...

I was going to choose Renntech to tune the PCM but I could not digest the prices they charge to tune a PCM ($3500.!). Why offer 2 stages? Just maximize the PCM and charge a reasonable price.

I then began communication with Cory over at Kleemann USA. First rate guy with very quick responses to all my quetions via e-mail. Cory said they had results for the PCM in other C63's but only with additional mods. My car is completely stock including the charcoal filters. I decided to give it a shot with Cory (Kleemann) and sent my PCM (very easy to remove) to them overnight. I received it back overnight 2 days later and immediately put it back in the car. I drove it around for a day not really hammering on the car too much as there was a lot of traffic here (Houston). I then drove it to the dyno the next day and the first run out of the box was 424.4 RWHP at around 7100 RPM. The same RPM interval stock was 369 rwhp. This is a 55 RWHP gain at 7100 RPM! That is now 517 engine flywheel HP!

You really feel a huge difference in the mid and top of the RPM range. I took it out on the freeway and going full throttle from any speed is amazingly faster! Especially going from a 70 mph roll, the car just flies!

Bottom line is, if you own a C63 and want a professional PCM tune performed at a VERY fair price ($1495.), get that PCM out of your car and over to Cory now! This is one of the best tuning experiences I have ever had and I've had a LOT of them!

Dyno graph attached!

Nice post E63PWR. Cory's # please?!

[MHP]

Good results, though I'd like to see their tune on at least one other example to verify the initial findings.

[E63PWR]

Originally Posted by dremorg

Nice post E63PWR. Cory's # please?!

Cory Umemoto
Technical Manager


KLEEMANN USA
3455 Fillmore Ridge Heights
Colorado Springs, CO. 80907


Tel: +719.473.6441
Fax: +719.578.0345
Email: cory@kleemannusa.com
AIM: kleemanntech

I've never met Cory nor have I done business with Kleemann before and I'm telling you as a total performance enthusiast & aficionado, DO THIS UPGRADE! You will not be disappointed. I drove the car more since the first post and this thing moves out! Night & day difference at all speeds. I've owned late model cars making double this rwhp but the enjoyment I get out of this car as my daily driver is great! The poor M3 guys are really going to be sick now as you know the tune for them will net very little.

[E63PWR]

Originally Posted by freakyshiat

have you checked air/fuel?

I did not have the time to check the A/F. Through my experience with this car, the major improvement has come from a large increase in total timing advance. Stock, I could feel my car pull back in power as the RPM's built indicating that AMG did not want this car to match the power of the other 63's.

I don't plan to remove the charcoal filters unless there is an air intake that proves to be worth some substantial HP. I removed the charcoal filters on the dyno with my E63 and it gained zero. I even removed the stock air filters on my E63 for a dyno pull and again it gained zero.

I asked Kleemann about the warranty issue and Cory said that MB dealers cannot "see" that the pcm has been retuned. If MB writes over the top of your tune for any reason, Kleemann will reprogram it for you and all you pay is freight back.

[Glock Guru]

Great news. Keep passing no feedback on your tune, good and bad. BTW how much Torque did you add to your stock numbers?


-Troy

[ARC101]

Originally Posted by Glock Guru

Great news. Keep passing no feedback on your tune, good and bad. BTW how muck Torque did you add to your stock numbers?


-Troy

Likewise... Very intrested to see how others perform with the same tune...

[exiges]

Originally Posted by TopGun32

its not detectable.. like a piggy back system (BMW's n54 engines)

if you are gets flashed, then you will need to send the ECU back to Kleemann.

Sorry, those statements don't make sense. You don't reflash your ECU if you get a piggy back, a piggy back just alters inputs/outputs to the stock ECU.

I don't understand how it can't be detected.. (though I've heard many times that it cannot) Does that mean Kleeman wouldn't know if a chip had already been modified ? Or if Kleeman know whether a ECU has been flashed, then why can't MB ?

Also, is an ECU tied to a chassis number, or can any C63 ECU work in any C63?

How much is a replacement ECU ? The reason I ask, is that while sending your chip to Kleeman for flashing is only a 48hour process .. it would be quite nice to have both a flash + unflashed version in case I needed to go to MB briefly without having to send ECUs back + forth.

[HoustonRider]

traffic in Houston? no way.. lol

[Glock Guru]

I am confused. Is the Kleemann upgrade a piggy back, flash, replacement chip or a combo of all three?

[Sincity]

Wow.....very reasonable considering what the other tuners charge.

[Exotic-metal55]

I have been on the Dyno (Dynojet) twice with this car stock and it produced consistently with 3 rwhp of each of the runs. Max #'s stock on each date were 380 rwhp and 377 rwhp.

Would 380 RWHP be low for a C63? It seems with around 517 crank that with a 17% drivetrain loss , a C63 would be in the 415 rwhp range??

Great gains from the tune!

[TopGun32]

Originally Posted by exiges

Sorry, those statements don't make sense. You don't reflash your ECU if you get a piggy back, a piggy back just alters inputs/outputs to the stock ECU.

I don't understand how it can't be detected.. (though I've heard many times that it cannot) Does that mean Kleeman wouldn't know if a chip had already been modified ? Or if Kleeman know whether a ECU has been flashed, then why can't MB ?

Also, is an ECU tied to a chassis number, or can any C63 ECU work in any C63?

How much is a replacement ECU ? The reason I ask, is that while sending your chip to Kleeman for flashing is only a 48hour process .. it would be quite nice to have both a flash + unflashed version in case I needed to go to MB briefly without having to send ECUs back + forth.

I feel really lazy to go through this. but I guess I'll keep it brief

BMW has coded their new DME to detect changes in parameters that are irregular to stock settings. These parameters will raise a red flag when the Dealer inspects your car or does any work.

Those issues are not found on a MB right now. and dealers simply don't check or anybody at MB is checking for changes in DME. They simply don't care right now. Perhaps when the new Turbo engines arrive in a couple of years.

Back to the topic.

Kleemann is a ECU reprogramming using the stock ECU and adding a chip to the stock ECU.

back to the point.. How can it be detected... .only by comparing stock parameters to modified parameters or visually looking at the chip.

IF the dealer happend to look at your ECU than they will notice (obviously) you have modified your ECU. Would they care? Not if the car is running fine. Would they void your warranty.. depends. I would say a good chance, no.

Its not a piggy back chip, using wires to tap into the ECU lines or a processor with pins like the BMW guys.

and no.. ECU is tied to your car. If you want to keep a stock file and modified file.. you will need to ask Kleemann or your tuner to do that. The only I know people can get around that is through OBDII downloading ECU files. Its coming soon to MB from what I'm told by a local tuner.

[Sincity]

I had an APR tuned MKVGTI which is flashed via the OBDII port. They loaded with 3 programs:

1) Stock
2) Stage II
3) Valet

To switch between the various tune, you use the cruise control stock and watch the dummy lights on the dash by verifying how many flashes to indicate which tune. There was another tuner that had a plug in hardware module to switch programs. I'm sure all of you are interested in something like this, especially when handing the keys to the valet jocks. Instead of giving them 500+ crank HP, limit it to 100 HP to park and return your car.

[E63PWR]

Originally Posted by Exotic-metal55

Would 380 RWHP be low for a C63? It seems with around 517 crank that with a 17% drivetrain loss , a C63 would be in the 415 rwhp range??

Great gains from the tune!

The C63 is rated at 451 from MB. My car dynoed a max of 380 rwhp. My driveline loss I have always used on late model automatics is 18%. Divide 380 by .82 and you get 463 or within a couple of HP of the factory rating. Take the peak made with the Kleemann tune of 424 rwhp, divide that by .82 and you get 517 rating at the crank.