evosport and Powerchip Stage 1 C63 ECU Tune and Development

[Simon @ evosport]

So, many of you have seen what we have been doing to the CLK63 Black Series and keep asking "what about my 63?" - well the day is finally here, I can finally start to release more information. Powerchip and evosport have been working on 63-series AMG cars for well over a year. In fact, I think that we may have been the first to start this process. So the question is often asked "why does it take so long to release new items or update us?" and the answer is simple - we do not release information until it is real and tangible and meets our and our customers expectations. Today is the first day in many to come! Using our C63 development car, we were able to finalize the stage 1 ECU tune finally. Without further text, I submit to you all: STOCK BASELINE C63 DYNO HP: 452.67 (371.19 RWHP) Torque: 445.18 (365.05 RWTQ) *MBZ claims 450 HP & 443 TQ for a stock car so above numbers are in-line with that claim TUNED C63 DYNO (ONLY SOFTWARE ON CA 91 PUMP GAS) HP: 531.45 (435.79 RWHP) Torque: 483.74 (396.67 RWTQ) +79 HP & 38 FT-LBS GAIN! The above run is with Smoothing set to ZERO. We never hide behind high smoothing numbers that do not tell the entire story. You will note that in 5th gear (1:1) there is some "knock" activity. That is due to the poor CA fuel and the lack of sufficient airflow to sustain the heat load. The above is the same set of runs with smoothing set to 5 to smooth out the lines (although you will note without any smoothing the Powerchip tune is very smooth in 4th gear). The best thing is that this tune is available NOW for your 63 and is only $1990 with a 14 day money satisfaction guarantee and 3 year warranty. With 93 or 100 non-California octane fuel, you can expect even better numbers. The next steps in development will be: Stage 2 Software (expected to gain 8-12 whp more) evosport upgraded Airboxes evosport long tube headers with proper x-pipe evosport Crank Pulley and more..... Please feel free to ping us with any questions or comments! thanks Simon

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[nrgy]

Impressive! It's great to see you expanding your 63 line up! Are you working on any aerodynamics as well for the C63 like you did with JCart's CLK 63 BS?

[MHP]

Simon,
FWIW, we always use smoothing set at 5 so as not to include any artificially generated spikes in our peak numbers. Also, do you plan on having a tuned C63 run at MIR on 11/15? It would be great to have a head to head shootout.

Thanks!
Andy

[Sincity]

Shootout!!!!

BTW-please excuse the ignorance, but is there a performance gain with using an x-pipe or is it for sound?

[MHP]

Originally Posted by Sincity

Shootout!!!!

BTW-please excuse the ignorance, but is there a performance gain with using an x-pipe or is it for sound?

There will also be a performance gain with a true X.

[-michael-]

Sounds really great!! What about the price range for the stage 2 ECU tune? And maybe this is off topic, but anyways, Simon is it true that some of the stuff you offer is made by VRP (that's what I heard on this board)?

[CynCarvin32]

Well done evosport. Markedly more power than MHP and for a price which will not induce issues with your lower digestive tract! This really adds pressure to a tuner in question. I like the competition.

I honestly think all tuners are around the same power figure. I know RENNtech has a equal flash for their 63's and kleemann likely does as well.

Everyone is playing with the same variables so the results will likely be very close.

Your power figures are very impressive and your price is great was well.

[tazma61]

Very impressive... so you are stating that the knocking would not be present at 5th gear if the car was actually running on the street... right?

[Glock Guru]

Good job, I like the competition.

[Shooff]

I like the competiton, and again I like the price ! I hope everyone finally comes to realize 1500-2000 is the max people can stomach for a tune, even though I had a custom tune done on a dyno for about half that price on my mustang :-(

[Simon @ evosport]

Originally Posted by nrgy

Impressive! It's great to see you expanding your 63 line up! Are you working on any aerodynamics as well for the C63 like you did with JCart's CLK 63 BS?

Thanks! We do have a number of aero/aethetic mods in the works for the C as well!

Originally Posted by MHP

Simon,
FWIW, we always use smoothing set at 5 so as not to include any artificially generated spikes in our peak numbers. Also, do you plan on having a tuned C63 run at MIR on 11/15? It would be great to have a head to head shootout.

I see your point, but we always show zero and sometimes also 5. Showing at zero shows if you have any knock activity - really shows if you can control the tune or not. If you see the 4th gear pulls, the are very smooth, this is a good indicator that we are not using to much timing and have good overall control. Also, the knock activity in 5th (which is to be expected in our dyno area - hot, car is heat soaked, not enough airflow, etc) shows that we are not cheating the dyno with race fuel. I think showing both smoothing off and at max is a good way to give all the data to people and let them make educated decisions.

As for MIR, I wish, but it is way too far to go for a drag day. We run a full BMW race team, and out rigs and techs spend 15-20 weekends racing with our customers already. It is too much to ask for one more weekend, and the fuel alone for the rig back and forth is $4000. Have fun though! Wish we could make it!

Originally Posted by Sincity

Shootout!!!!

BTW-please excuse the ignorance, but is there a performance gain with using an x-pipe or is it for sound?

I see lot's of people calling for a shootout. While we would never back down from any challenge and often have thrown the gauntlet down ourselves - this is not about a tit-for-tat. This release is just showing that we are finally ready to start talking about what we have been working on for a long time behind the scenes.

As for the pure compeitition of the matter, we also welcome that. The more good people involved, the better the product has to be and the better the service from each involved must be. We are comfortable that we can excel in both areas. And the end result is a better product and experience for the customer!

There is no reason that as tuners, we cannot all get along. There does not HAVE to be animosity and aggression between all tuners, and I thank MHP for posting a "thanks" in this thread as opposed to an attempt to "attack" - that is the way it should be. The truth is that many tuners work together behind the scenes, they buy goods from each other and share knowledge at times. Those that don't play nice get left out of that circle, and that is unfortunate for all. There is too much negativity and cynicism as it is.

Now, on to the X-pipe - YES - there are real performance gains. With the long-tube header and x-pipe we will see another 40-50 whp gain as we experience with the 63 Black Series.

Originally Posted by -michael-

Sounds really great!! What about the price range for the stage 2 ECU tune? And maybe this is off topic, but anyways, Simon is it true that some of the stuff you offer is made by VRP (that's what I heard on this board)?

The price will be the same. It is just that it will be stage 2 in the development process. There may be a slight bump in price for the "race/header" software, but not significant.

As for your second statement, let me be very clear. Evosport does not buy our branded goods from anyone. Not in 10 years have we done this, and we never will. Each and every evosport product is designed, engineered and built to our standards specifically for evosport. We do private label our goods for many other shops and tuners world-wide. Anyone that states something different has an agenda and that is disappointing.

As it pertains specifically to VRP, we have had a long time relationship with Victor, the founder. In fact, long before he started his company, he had our complete offering on his E55 and has posted on this board his positive experiences with those goods. When he started his company, we supported another enthusiast jumping in the fray and have purchased a few items from them for our customers on request, but they have never been sold as evosport product.

I hope that adds some clarity.

Originally Posted by CynCarvin32

Well done evosport. .... Your power figures are very impressive and your price is great was well.

Everyone is playing with the same variables so the results will likely be very close.

Thanks! Agree - in theory, all tuners have the same access to the same variables. It just comes down to being able to control the modern electronics in these cars and create good stable and reliable tunes.

Originally Posted by tazma61

Very impressive... so you are stating that the knocking would not be present at 5th gear if the car was actually running on the street... right?

Thanks! Yes, what you stated is correct. We data log the cars at speed and do not see this activity. It is just hard to simulate 180mph in our current facility.

Thanks
Simon

[Shooff]

Will you be doing any track times with a test car at all ? Not asking about any shootouts, just some track data to go along with those dyno graphs?

[Unbreakable1]

Originally Posted by Shooff

Will you be doing any track times with a test car at all ? Not asking about any shootouts, just some track data to go along with those dyno graphs?

+1

[MHP]

Originally Posted by Simon @ evosport

I see your point, but we always show zero and sometimes also 5. Showing at zero shows if you have any knock activity - really shows if you can control the tune or not. If you see the 4th gear pulls, the are very smooth, this is a good indicator that we are not using to much timing and have good overall control. Also, the knock activity in 5th (which is to be expected in our dyno area - hot, car is heat soaked, not enough airflow, etc) shows that we are not cheating the dyno with race fuel. I think showing both smoothing off and at max is a good way to give all the data to people and let them make educated decisions.

As for MIR, I wish, but it is way too far to go for a drag day. We run a full BMW race team, and out rigs and techs spend 15-20 weekends racing with our customers already. It is too much to ask for one more weekend, and the fuel alone for the rig back and forth is $4000. Have fun though! Wish we could make it!

I'm sure by 11/15 someone will have purchased your tune and will be present to run at MIR. I definitely didn't expect you to come across country and run with it.



Also out of curiosity, do you do anything with the trans (raised shift points, firmer/quicker shifts, reduced TM) and do you alter part throttle as well as WOT maps?

Finally (sorry for the 20Qs) how many miles are on your test car? Mine put down 373/376rwhp SAE with drop in K&Ns on the stock tune with 93 octane and ~1500 miles on it. Looks like you have a strong one.

Again congrats on the dyno numbers.

Thanks!

[paulGT3]

WOW, 1900 is more than fair for 80hp. Thats what I expect for a tune. I was shocked to see a $5000-6000 for a tune. I owned a 993 twin turbo and tunes for that car were in the 1500 to 2000 dollar range.
I have paid 70,000k 95,000 and 140K and now 68K for my cars and 5000-6000 for a tune is too much in my opinion ESPECIALLY in this economy. Powerchip is a name I know and certainly a price I would be interested in.

[MHP]

Originally Posted by paulGT3

WOW, 1900 is more than fair for 80hp. Thats what I expect for a tune. I was shocked to see a $5000-6000 for a tune. I owned a 993 twin turbo and tunes for that car were in the 1500 to 2000 dollar range.
I have paid 70,000k 95,000 and 140K and now 68K for my cars and 5000-6000 for a tune is too much in my opinion ESPECIALLY in this economy. Powerchip is a name I know and certainly a price I would be interested in.

I agree on the price for ECU only, buy it and put it to the test.

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by paulGT3

WOW, 1900 is more than fair for 80hp. Thats what I expect for a tune. I was shocked to see a $5000-6000 for a tune. I owned a 993 twin turbo and tunes for that car were in the 1500 to 2000 dollar range.
I have paid 70,000k 95,000 and 140K and now 68K for my cars and 5000-6000 for a tune is too much in my opinion ESPECIALLY in this economy. Powerchip is a name I know and certainly a price I would be interested in.

evosport - congrats on a great tune!

paulGT3 - congrats on spending about $375k on your last 4 rides!

[paulGT3]

C32 Since I chose wisely
I have only spent 12k on 3 very nice cars
I bought and sold my 993 911 Twin turbo for $70K (drove it for a year no cost)
I bought my 04 911 GT3 for 90 sold it for 85(1.5 years)
I bought my 07 911GT3 for 122 and sold it for 115k (1.5years)
all sequentially.
(Now because of back problems and upcoming spine surgery in Dec I had
to sell my GT3 for something more comfortable to ride -the AMG)

The point was at those prices the tunes were in the 2k range.

My 04 GT3 was a Manthey 410 kit for $10K
that was racing headers, racing cats, Racing mufflers, ECU upgrade
Camber plates and corner balance and alignment for $10k from a well
known Porsche Tuner and racer from Europe, on a car that MSRP's for $126
I just dont understand 6K for a 68K four door sedan

Sorry if you were unable to understand my original post.

[is3mike]

Amazing results Simon, and the pricing is very fair. I can't wait to see how the stage 2 software turns out. I might have to think twice when a C63 pulls up next to me.

[stefario]

how come on the powerchip site the numbers they offer for the 08 is different?

how do we order the correct one?

[otoupalik]

Originally Posted by stefario

how do we order the correct one?

Easy - you order it from evosport!

Thanks
Brad

[Sincity]

Simon,

If someone purchases Stage 1 tune and later decides to go to Stage 2, do they have to pay full price for the tune or will it be offered at a substantial discount? APR, from VW/Audi circle, does not charge for the jump from Stg 1 to 2 flash. It is up to each independent dealer to charge for the labor time for the flash and not the software version.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone here. You can flash a VW/Audi through the internet (software resides on APR servers) from the dealer's computer via OBDII.

[otoupalik]

Originally Posted by Sincity

Simon,

If someone purchases Stage 1 tune and later decides to go to Stage 2, do they have to pay full price for the tune or will it be offered at a substantial discount? APR, from VW/Audi circle, does not charge for the jump from Stg 1 to 2 flash. It is up to each independent dealer to charge for the labor time for the flash and not the software version.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone here. You can flash a VW/Audi through the internet (software resides on APR servers) from the dealer's computer via OBDII.

Powerchip, and all dealers, charge a re-flash fee. Much like APR, you don't buy the software, you buy the service. Upgrades to the program that you have are just a re-flash fee. Now, if you upgrade to a race program that has a different retail, then the cost is simply the difference plus the re-flash fee.

So, net/net, you are not buying the same thing over and over!

thanks
Brad

[richtor]

nice numbers! i do have some questions, please forgive me if you have answered them here or on a different thread already. if you have just point me towards the answers.

were these pulls done in 4th or 5th gear? i am assuming that both the stock and tuned were pulled in the same gear.

why did the stock pull stop at 5.65k rpms? that seems odd when the tuned pulls did not reach peak hp until a thousands rpms later. did your tune offset peak hp by 1000 rpms?

how does the computer in the throttle effect the computer(ecu) for the motor? will the throttle automatically adjust to the new tune? and if it does not will you be offering a tune for the throttle to match what you have done with the ecu?

how does this compare with your tune on the e63? and what will be different in your stage 2 tune for the c class?

thanks michael

[gravedgr]

Originally Posted by otoupalik

Powerchip, and all dealers, charge a re-flash fee. Much like APR, you don't buy the software, you buy the service. Upgrades to the program that you have are just a re-flash fee. Now, if you upgrade to a race program that has a different retail, then the cost is simply the difference plus the re-flash fee.

So, net/net, you are not buying the same thing over and over!

thanks
Brad

Brad,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since Simon already announced a v2 due soon it sounds like every customer would be well advised to not buy now and wait for v2 since there is a charge to re-flash as you state. Is this correct?

What about re-flashes if the dealer overwrites the ECU change with one of their own (warranty work, for instance). As I'm sure you know, many of us '09 owners have already had an ECU/ME replacement so its not a far cry to think it could happen to tuned customers.