Thoughts: C63 vs CTS-V

[TA-9FF]

Originally Posted by SeattleBum The reason for my comment was your ignorant statement which insinuated that I, a previous Cadillac owner, was analogous to a Viagra-munchin old guy (who probably would kick your arse on the said golf course). Most of the guys in the 'V' sections of the Caddy forums are between 25 and 40 years of age...which is typically a bit younger than the average MB owner (albeit not the C-class owners). Aside from the trust-fund babies and the youngins living beyond their means, I would assume these average ages are income related. Just take it as a friendly poke, not as a calling-you-out statement. I'm a nice guy, I really am. I was kidding as well, and I admit that analogy wasn't the best one to use, so I apologize if it was too stereotypical. No hard feelings!

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[SeattleBum]

Originally Posted by TA-9FF

I was kidding as well, and I admit that analogy wasn't the best one to use, so I apologize if it was too stereotypical.

No hard feelings!

Love the rims/drop on your car!

[qship5]

GM has picked up their game with the latest CTS-V and I can also say the MB did the same with the C63. I've never owned a Caddy, but would buy a CTS-V. I've owned previous AMGs and they never quite drove like a BMW until I drove the C63. MB got it right with this car.

You really can't go wrong with either option.

[DaGS1800]

Dude you answered the question yourself....

"I've also spent the last 13 years of my life not paying the least bit of attention to American car brands, just knowing they were junk..."

American Cars = CRAP!

Yeah, so what the caddy has more bhp, it still doesn’t beat the Benz... its heavy, bigger, and handles like a goofy fat kid. If the price is not your issue, than 100% without any doubt in your mind you should be leaning towards the C63.

PLUS, with a minor ECU tune you can have the over 500bhp in the Benz, depending on your size but I think the smaller 4 door is much sportier and will be an advantage all around when it comes to performance. You cannot compare a German car like this to an American car with a huge engine stuck in it, literally... I don’t even see the comparison unless it’s the money thing... or unless you like American sports cars, which some people simply do, which I will never understand... Just my opinion, good luck!

[Razorecko]

Originally Posted by DaGS1800

Dude you answered the question yourself....

"I've also spent the last 13 years of my life not paying the least bit of attention to American car brands, just knowing they were junk..."

American Cars = CRAP!

Yeah, so what the caddy has more bhp, it still doesn’t beat the Benz... its heavy, bigger, and handles like a goofy fat kid. If the price is not your issue, than 100% without any doubt in your mind you should be leaning towards the C63.

PLUS, with a minor ECU tune you can have the over 500bhp in the Benz, depending on your size but I think the smaller 4 door is much sportier and will be an advantage all around when it comes to performance. You cannot compare a German car like this to an American car with a huge engine stuck in it, literally... I don’t even see the comparison unless it’s the money thing... or unless you like American sports cars, which some people simply do, which I will never understand... Just my opinion, good luck!

Uhm "whisper #'s" clock the c63 around the N' in like 8:10....the V did it under 8. The c63 weighs around 3800 and the V around 4200. So it weighs more ? Is that really a concern if it performs better. The c63 is a mean little ******* no doubt. But to claim that the benz name overcomes any another vehicle is ridiculous and closed minded. This is the same mentality that american vehicle owners were throwing out at the japanese auto makers in the 70's....look where that got them.

[DaGS1800]

First, yes weight make a difference, even 400lbs... Second, I did not say the benz name overcomes any other vehicle, but if you can honestly say that American sport cars are in the same league as German sport cars than you are oblivious to the truth. And for over 100 more horses, it is barely faster, and that doesn’t mean everything... what about brakes, suspension, interior quality, etc, etc, etc...

[TA-9FF]

Originally Posted by SeattleBum

Love the rims/drop on your car!

Thanks! But the drop is a PS-job.

I live in Houston (Pothole Town), so I decided not to drop the car.

I'm tempted to drop the C63 that I'm looking to get later this year though.....

[ericpd]

Ok,... just got in from burning gas around Bmore County and City. Guess what's sittin' out in my driveway,... a Black Raven Cadillac CTS-V with Light Titanium Recaro's. Took the AMG back thinking I'd be driving my C32 home, but ended up leaving the C32 at the dealership and driving the V home. So basically, I had the Benz un-supervised the first part of the day and the V un-supervised the second part of the day. Man, this thing is loaded,... Nav, HD & Sat radio, 19" Polished wheels, etc. Only thing missing on this thing is a f'ing engine block heater. The Pilot Sport 2 footprint on the V is ridiculous,... hell, the fronts are wider than the rears on the Benz. Just noticed that today. And the V's interior compared to the C63's is like comparing the Impala to a Belair,... no, a Biscayne! I'm honestly shocked that merc has allowed GM to out-appoint and out-comfort their interior and human space. But the lateral support of the performance seat option this thing comes with is nothing compared to the support the Benz offers. The second time looking at all this stitching, well it ain't as bad as I remember the first time. Kinda reminded me of a baseball glove, now it doesn't look that much out of place or overdone anymore. Still overdone though in my opinion. But the glossy piano black is slammin'. A touch nicely done there. The one thing that worries me is the fake suede all over the place,... including the steering wheel. Not sure how that's gonna hold up and begin to detract from everything else. And what can I say about the Bose 5.1,... very nice! Loud and balanced,... not boomy like how I remember Americans used to tune their audio systems. I was disappoint to learn that remote start is only available with the automatic. Damn! As far as exhaust note,... the Benz takes that hands down, however, when you open up the throttle the V does get sorta loud. But it just doesn't have the mellow thunder the C63 delivers. I can now say with almost absolute certainty, the C63 wouldn't stand a chance on the street with the V. According to my but dyno, the V has way more acceleration. There's a connecting highway where I live that basically connects Baltimore's Beltway to a place called Westminster, MD. Get pass the Subway Depot and it's very straight. Did a WOT from a couple on ramps and before I knew it I was int three digits. After years in my C32, three digits aren't suppose to sneak up on me like that. But they did. Impressive,... this thing is impressive. Didn't do any back roads,... too much ice and slush still on the ground to feel safe, especially at night. Oh yeah, there's not as much SC whirl as I was hoping it would be. They've done something to quite that down. Sorta disappointing,... like I said earlier, I got used to that. But it does have a PSI guage to let you know you need to get your foot out of it,... that's if you wanna make it to the next gas station.

The Caddy salesman saw me drive in with the C63. When I told him that I had not decided yet but they allowed me to drive the 63 to work while they serviced my 32, he arranged for me to take the V. Hell yeah,... the 32 is spending her 2nd night away from home. The Caddy guy gave me this book with an interesting read about Cadillac auto sport. Did you guys know that the 09 V is considered to be the fastest Sedan on the planet. It holds the current record lap time at the ring for its class and amoung performance cars with 4 doors. I see someone elluded to this a few posts up. And playing around with the V, I do believe the 0-60 in 3.9,... with a little practice locking up, I do feel it's possible.

I really wanted this thing to fail,... to fall flat on it's face in the presence of the C63. But it held it's own. Now for some truth and honesty. I didn't push the 63 as much as I pushed the V. I had the 63 during daylight hours and used my time with it to discover stuff, like talking to the nav system. I had promised to be back at the dealership between 5 & 6, so most of my time with it was doing stuff like negotiating afternoon rush-hour traffic, picked the 2 kids up from school, and a few other errands. Something else too,... the V has a manual trans, they always feel a tad more responsive and exhilarating.

I'm still undecided, and prolly won't make up my mind until sometimes tomorrow. I gave them all my information, did my bank stuff today (down payment wise, GM is doing 0% money and Mercedes is doing 1.9 money, can't pass either of those up), so all's left is me making up my mind. Whatever I do, I'll still be at home here,... I'm keeping my 32!

[TA-9FF]

Sounds like you already made up your mind.

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by C230\PV

If you have the BBC channel Top Gear plays on Mondays at 8 pm. I always try to watch it, and if I can't I watch it OnDemand. Anyways, there was a newer episode where they tested out the new CTS-V the episode you are talking about is the previous CTS-V. Let me see if I can find it..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8_g9dn13YY
There it is, watch through all the videos if you'd like, its a really good episode.

Thanks C230, I found it the other night. Trust me, FiOS is set to record each and every episode from this moment on. You're right, they did two episodes on the CTS-V. The V up against the Audi was an '08. If you looked carefully, you could see the 6 lug wheels on it. I've learned over the 2 days, there's a BIG BIG difference between the old CTS-V and the current CTS-V. More power, more agility, better appointments, and better just about everything else. Night and day. The episode featuring the '09 V (the red one) just aired yesterday as a repeat right before the the new episode. Before this, I've heard of a show out of England called 'Fifth Gear', but never hear of 'Top Gear',... but I know about it now! Great show.

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by dlbello

Don't kill yourself now Oh and Good Luck!!!

Thanks bello!

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by SeattleBum

Love the rims/drop on your car!

Yeah,... nice drop on that 32 TA-9FF!

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by TA-9FF

Sounds like you already made up your mind.

I don't know man. Not really! I think if I had honestly and truly already made my mind up,... I'd still be out in the streets or out in the garage toyin' around with stuff. But I'm here still searching for something,... anything, to tilt me one way over the other. I think what's happening is I'm fighting the 'regret' monster. It's fairly clear that the V out-performs the C in many areas. But it ain't an AMG. There's no signature on my blower. I guess what I'm feeling is I don't want to hear myself saying I shoulda woulda a few months from tomorrow. I mean if the difference between the two were hands down, I wouldn't be sweatin' this. I know,... strange!

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by DaGS1800

Dude you answered the question yourself....

"I've also spent the last 13 years of my life not paying the least bit of attention to American car brands, just knowing they were junk..."

American Cars = CRAP!

I still feel that way,... but spend some time behind that wheel of the 09 V and you'd be willing to recognize that there may be an exception to that rule. Now in no way am I saying the V sports a higher level of quality than the Benz, but the Benz comes in second to BMW if build quality is the only criteria, and I ain't even thinking of one of those things. Yuk!

Originally Posted by DaGS1800

Yeah, so what the caddy has more bhp, it still doesn’t beat the Benz... its heavy, bigger, and handles like a goofy fat kid. If the price is not your issue, than 100% without any doubt in your mind you should be leaning towards the C63.

Oh I don't know about the goofy fat kid thing. This Caddy definitely doesn't handle like a goofy fat kid. Nowhere near it. Fact is, I'd say it may handle just as well if not better than the C63. You can actually feel a reduction in body roll when you turn that round knob that controls the magnetic dampers. It's almost universally agreed that of all the German Sport Sedans, the C63 handles more like an American Muscle car than any of them. The C in it's stock form suffers from severe under steer and is extremely tail happy. If that ain't a textbook definition of American Muscle, then I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by DaGS1800

PLUS, with a minor ECU tune you can have the over 500bhp in the Benz, depending on your size but I think the smaller 4 door is much sportier and will be an advantage all around when it comes to performance. You cannot compare a German car like this to an American car with a huge engine stuck in it, literally... I don’t even see the comparison unless it’s the money thing... or unless you like American sports cars, which some people simply do, which I will never understand... Just my opinion, good luck!

Yeah, and you can play the same ECU magic with the V and end up with a ZR1 powerplant under the bonnet pushing over 600 bhp and tons more torque. Well actually, you'd have to replace the blower pully as well on the V to completely replicate the ZR1 plant. I did a pully/ECU mod to my C32 some time back, and it was like night and day. Unbelievable!

I do agree however, that the smaller size of the C is more to my liking. But it's not like I'm looking at a E class when really wanting a C class. This thing falls between the E and the C. it's not as small as the C and M3, and not quite as big as the E and M5. Check out the deminsions someone posted early on in this thread.

Uh,... I think you got that backwards. The 6.2 in the V is actually a small block design. The 6.2 in the Benz is definitely their big(gest) block. It's even heavier than their V12!

No,... money is not an issue here. Excitement is, and how long that excitement will last. That's what's making the decision fairly tuff. The V is cheaper BTW.

[DaGS1800]

Regret you will.

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by DaGS1800

Regret you will.

Yeah,... I'm hearin' ya! That same thought is lurking around in the back of my head as well. I just wished the C was as exciting as that V sittin' outside. Just came back in,... had to go out and check something out about the nav unit I just read about in the Owner's Manual. I don't think you can talk to the nav in the V (voice activated). At least if you can, I'm not doin' a very good job of figuring it out. But guess what I did discover, in addition to XM radio, this thing comes with XM weather AND traffic too. AND,... not only do the Recaro seats heat on driver and passenger side fronts, they also have cooling ventalation,... sorta like the S class.

I know my neighbors are thinking I'm either crazy, had a fight with the wife, or trying to commit suicide by sitting in a running car in near freezing temps in the middle of the night! F'em! I'm tryin' to figure this crap out! LOL! Well just to let them know I'm ok,... I took one last ride to the nearby 7-eleven and grabbed a cup of coffee. As soon as I finish this last post and this coffee, I'm done.

Thanks again for listening and advising guys. Buy the time you hear from me again, I would have by then signed my name a ton of times and will be the owner of a brand new.........

Poof!

[AMGC60-3]

Originally Posted by ericpd

I don't know man. Not really! I think if I had honestly and truly already made my mind up,... I'd still be out in the streets or out in the garage toyin' around with stuff. But I'm here still searching for something,... anything, to tilt me one way over the other. I think what's happening is I'm fighting the 'regret' monster. It's fairly clear that the V out-performs the C in many areas. But it ain't an AMG. There's no signature on my blower. I guess what I'm feeling is I don't want to hear myself saying I shoulda woulda a few months from tomorrow. I mean if the difference between the two were hands down, I wouldn't be sweatin' this. I know,... strange!

I would say you should put both cars back on the "shelf" and walk away and give your self several weeks if not months to see which way you may "lean" towards. Your frame of mind may change if you wait mainly because you dont want to make that wrong 60-70k decision.At least wait to see what changes may come for the 2010 C63. I am an American working with the U.S. military in Germany and have driven a Benz since 1987. There is a saying in Germany which seems true at least for me "once a Mercedes always a Mercedes".

[Razorecko]

an important aspect is also how much of a "driver" are you ? do you have a preferance for a manual or an auto ? Do you get bored fast with an auto ? Do you like to eat, drink, and talk on the cell at the same time ? Ask your wife - which one does she like better ? Which one does she think is more masculine ? lol, you can't get a better outside/foreign opinion than from the wifey

[novasl]

Regardless of which car you choose - you hopefully will be happy with your choice as time goes by.
The Cadillac/GM is a VERY good effort, with many features that make it appealing.
However - the pedigree of a Mercedes Benz, especially an AMG, is something which no other manufacturer can hope to equal.
Sure, many are trying: BMW M, Lexus F, Cadillac/GM V, etc. - but keep in mind who is the leader and who are followers.
Valiant efforts buy all trying to "best the best".
Let us know what you decide.

[SeattleBum]

Originally Posted by ericpd

Thanks C230, I found it the other night. Trust me, FiOS is set to record each and every episode from this moment on. You're right, they did two episodes on the CTS-V. The V up against the Audi was an '08. If you looked carefully, you could see the 6 lug wheels on it. I've learned over the 2 days, there's a BIG BIG difference between the old CTS-V and the current CTS-V. More power, more agility, better appointments, and better just about everything else. Night and day. The episode featuring the '09 V (the red one) just aired yesterday as a repeat right before the the new episode. Before this, I've heard of a show out of England called 'Fifth Gear', but never hear of 'Top Gear',... but I know about it now! Great show.

The first gen CTS-V ran from 2004-2007 (4 model years). The 2004-2005 had the 5.7L LS6 motor from the C5 Corvette ZO6. The 2006-2007 had the 6.0L LS2 motor from the C6 Vettes. Both rated at 400hp/395lbft, though the LS6 was more of a race motor that revved a little more happily. The LS2 had a little more torque down low. The Top Gear episode when it raced the S4 was either a 2004 or 2005...I can't remember.

The 2009 CTS-V is a completely different car from the 2004-2007 CTS-V. In fact, it's an entirely different car for GM, period.

[yooker]

Originally Posted by novasl

Regardless of which car you choose - you hopefully will be happy with your choice as time goes by.
The Cadillac/GM is a VERY good effort, with many features that make it appealing.
However - the pedigree of a Mercedes Benz, especially an AMG, is something which no other manufacturer can hope to equal.
Sure, many are trying: BMW M, Lexus F, Cadillac/GM V, etc. - but keep in mind who is the leader and who are followers.
Valiant efforts buy all trying to "best the best".
Let us know what you decide.

I believe BMW ///M has more predigree than AMG.

[SeattleBum]

Modded 2009 CTS-V (automatic). Keep in mind this car has only been out for 2 months...only more goodies to come!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd5lx...&cart=faGHzpHj target="_blank"&feature=player_embedded

[shchow]

Originally Posted by yooker

I believe BMW ///M has more predigree than AMG.

+1,
Interesting thread! I'm also considering the CTS-V, but coming from E60 M5. When my local dealer got a few CTS-Vs in earlier this year, they called me to take a look.
I must say the exhaust note is quite impressive and the interior is very nice. If talking performance, the CTS-V is on top at the moment. And who can complain about the price?
For me, it comes down to price. For equal or better performance, but 25-30k less money, it's a no brainer. Will probably get the Caddy if it is still offered next year. Since GM is disbanding their High Performance Division, not sure if it will still be available, other than existing stock.

[SeattleBum]

Originally Posted by shchow

+1,
Interesting thread! I'm also considering the CTS-V, but coming from E60 M5. When my local dealer got a few CTS-Vs in earlier this year, they called me to take a look.
I must say the exhaust note is quite impressive and the interior is very nice. If talking performance, the CTS-V is on top at the moment. And who can complain about the price?
For me, it comes down to price. For equal or better performance, but 25-30k less money, it's a no brainer. Will probably get the Caddy if it is still offered next year. Since GM is disbanding their High Performance Division, not sure if it will still be available, other than existing stock.

I've read that even though their HPD is disbanded they will not stop production of the CTS-V.

My thoughts: you already have an M5 which is 99% as fast at the CTS-V. Why take a hit on selling it? What about a nice Dinan S2 package?

[TA-9FF]

Originally Posted by yooker

I believe BMW ///M has more predigree than AMG.

Unfortunately I have to somewhat, but not FULLY agree to this.

Don't forget that the 190E EVO was no slouch.