Thoughts: C63 vs CTS-V

[novasl]

Congratulations on your new Cadillac - keep us informed on how it performs and also with how happy you are with it as the miles go up on the odometer. Unfortunately, with my past experience with American cars, I will never spend any money on them. My issues center on build quality and "tightness" beyond 15,000 miles. Also, it's great that Cadillac went to the lengths it did to get your business. Of course, you never get something for nothing - so if you aren't paying now, more than likely you'll be paying later. Seriously, best of luck with the V, hopefully it lives up to your expectations as time goes by.

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[ericpd]

I'm here at work and a co-worker has just told me I should edit out the complete VIN# on the window sticker cut-n-paste I did this morning. According to him, posting VIN's and plate tags is generally a bad idea. Not that I don't trust any of my fellow members. Now that I think about it, I have seen members pics throughout this board where their tags have been obscured in some way. Paid it little attention,... until now. To any mods cruising the hallways, I apologize if broke any forum posting rules.

Now to resume trying to figure out the difference between 'Traction Control' and 'Stabilitrak'. Thought they were the same initially!

[1st amg]

Congrats on the knig of the hill car, too bad you didnt stick with the AMG product but I admire you venturing with the General's product, good luck and would love to see some photos....dont forget the burnout photo as lots of the C63 owners have done here

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by yooker

I demand pictures! I am glad you're a true car enthusiast who can look beyond the brand and see what a car the CTS-V really is.

+1.

Who cares what the badge poseurs think? The enthusiasts know the CTS-V is the real deal. There's no denying it beats the C63 performance-wise in what... almost every way? True enthusiasts look beyond appearance and the badge. They buy the car they love to drive.

Plus -- manual transmission! I often wish I had that option because I find the C63's "adaptive" (boooooo) tranny disappointing.

Congrats

[Razorecko]

^ I can't agree more. Whomever thought of adaptive automatic transmissions should have been shot. 2 days of traffic and your car shifts like slop.

[liquiddi]

You will love the CTS-V. As far as rattles go I think it will be great. They are using Hydroforming on the CTS just like the Vette. Each vette I have owned since the C5 has been more rock solid then any other car I have ever owned. Almost too stuff.

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by 1st amg

Congrats on the knig of the hill car, too bad you didnt stick with the AMG product but I admire you venturing with the General's product, good luck and would love to see some photos....dont forget the burnout photo as lots of the C63 owners have done here

Thanks amg. Every trip to the store is like an adventure. My wife says I'm like a teenager anxiously waiting for his parents to come up with an errand. I told her to go back watchin' Alton Brown on the Food Network and leave me be.

Like I told everyone else,... I plan on taking some pics this weekend. We're suppose to have some pretty good weather here this weekend. I ain't gonna promise any burn outs, especially after I found out what the rear PS2's cost for this thing. I had an anxiety attack first time I had to put shoes on the AMG,... shoes for the V nearly gave me a stroke! Plus I'm still tryin' to get the skinny on this diff problem the 08 V's had. Read earlier they implode like Soviet Subs. Now I'm reading that some 09's hit the streets with the problem solved, depending on the build date.

Why is it you read this stuff AFTER you do the buy?!?!?!?

[Razorecko]

Originally Posted by ericpd

Thanks amg. Every trip to the store is like an adventure. My wife says I'm like a teenager anxiously waiting for his parents to come up with an errand. I told her to go back watchin' Alton Brown on the Food Network and leave me be.

Like I told everyone else,... I plan on taking some pics this weekend. We're suppose to have some pretty good weather here this weekend. I ain't gonna promise any burn outs, especially after I found out what the rear PS2's cost for this thing. I had an anxiety attack first time I had to put shoes on the AMG,... shoes for the V nearly gave me a stroke! Plus I'm still tryin' to get the skinny on this diff problem the 08 V's had. Read earlier they implode like Soviet Subs. Now I'm reading that some 09's hit the streets with the problem solved, depending on the build date.

Why is it you read this stuff AFTER you do the buy?!?!?!?

The '08's were the old gen. The new v's ( yours ) have an entirely different rear end. GM engineers knew of the issue so they basically built you a bullet proof rear to the point where they would take the v's out and continously launch them to try to break the rears. They wont, no worries. And to top that off they produced a rear differential cooler that you can buy that's warrantied in case you really like to track the V and beat the crap out of it. Oh and overheating ? No worries because although the V has a smaller blower than the ZR1 it has one large cooler that works even better than the ZR1's 2 seperate coolers. No worries - just enjoy

[yooker]

Haha, the old gen had a terrible case of axle hop that will blow the rear end. The new one has been engineered to eliminate this destructive behaviour.

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by liquiddi

You will love the CTS-V. As far as rattles go I think it will be great. They are using Hydroforming on the CTS just like the Vette. Each vette I have owned since the C5 has been more rock solid then any other car I have ever owned. Almost too stuff.

Oh I am!!! Yeah, I read somewhere that the V and vette shares a lot of construction tech in addition to sharing the power plant with the ZR1. I gotta say the it rides really solid. Between the magnetic dampers and the hydroformed frame the ride quality should last quite a while. She corners well too. I did notice the anti-twist bar under the hood. Started to remove the plastic covering to see how GM anchored the bar (bolts or welds). I'll wait for a warmer day,... maybe this weekend. As with the dampers, you can definitely feel a different ride when you switch to sport.

Quick question. Is there a way to default the stability and traction controls to off? Like you can do in some older AMG's.

[Razorecko]

TC on/YC on - standard, no button presses
TC off/YC off - press and hold for 5 seconds ( be carefull no driving aids )
TC off/YC on - press button once
TC off/YC on - "Competitive Mode" - press button twice quickly

In any mode other than standard mode, pressing the button once will re-enable both TC and YC.

...BE CAREFULL, you will lose your end quicker than you can blink with
TC off/YC off

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by Razorecko

The '08's were the old gen. The new v's ( yours ) have an entirely different rear end. GM engineers knew of the issue so they basically built you a bullet proof rear to the point where they would take the v's out and continously launch them to try to break the rears. They wont, no worries. And to top that off they produced a rear differential cooler that you can buy that's warrantied in case you really like to track the V and beat the crap out of it. Oh and overheating ? No worries because although the V has a smaller blower than the ZR1 it has one large cooler that works even better than the ZR1's 2 seperate coolers. No worries - just enjoy

Ok,... so I needn't worry 'bout dat! Good, ran across a couple articles on that while at work. It's funny,... when I started doin' research on the V last week, I was thinking the beefier rear and rolling stock was the six lug setups. Only Monday did I learn the older gens sported the six lug pattern and that setup wasn't as good and problematic than the current five lug pattern. So when I went back to the dealership and scoped out that the V I was lookin' at sported the 5 lug pattern, I kinda stepped back for a moment thinking I was getting less. Wrong! Also is was a tell tale of model year, along with some other stuff. I'm just getting to the point where I can tell model years.

I just got educated again. I was under the impression the blowers were identical (do difference in size). The difference was in the crank/blower ratio. I think I read in one of the V forums that if you put a ZR1 pully on the blower and reprogram the ECU and you pick up 100+ bhp. So you're saying the ZR1 physically has a larger blower. Wonder if you can still match psi with a pulley kit?

Yeah, I can tell some war stories when it comes to heat soak and exchanger problems. The C32's are notorious for problems keeping their charged air cool. Mainly with the pump. Lot of guys start replacing the stock pumps with Bosch pumps from the Mustangs or the even larger Johnson pumps.

[Razorecko]

well actually the V has the "LSA" motor and the ZR1 has the "LS9" motor. The LSA in the V isnt fully forged like the ZR1. There is a guy "wait4me" on the cadillac forums that does alot of tuning and he is trying to blow up the motor to see how much it can handle -lol. He's been blasting a 200shot of nitrous and the motor hasn't hiccuped so its coming out to be pretty stout. This will help you out with your new toy...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...es-forum-2009/

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by Razorecko

well actually the V has the "LSA" motor and the ZR1 has the "LS9" motor. The LSA in the V isnt fully forged like the ZR1. There is a guy "wait4me" on the cadillac forums that does alot of tuning and he is trying to blow up the motor to see how much it can handle -lol. He's been blasting a 200shot of nitrous and the motor hasn't hiccuped so its coming out to be pretty stout. This will help you out with your new toy...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...es-forum-2009/

Thanks for the link Razor. Just finished reading this article,... great read. Sounds like you might have already found it.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/d...-2l-superchar/

[Razorecko]

^ no prob. I tend to highly research every vehicle i put a deposit/purchase.

[ericpd]

Ok guys. All is going well and again I appreciate all the congrats and well wishes. But I don't wanna soak up a lot of bandwidth here with CTS-V chatter. So I'm off to make some new friends. I'll stop back from time to time to checkout what you guys are up to and let everyone know how things are going with the V. I'm also gonna upload some pics this weekend as promised. If by some miracle I see anya you guys on the streets, we'll exchange a friendly thumbs up. But don't pick a fight,... you might regret doing so (friendly jab). Still,... I haven't completely left the church. I'm still an AMG owner,... I retain my citizenship!

Thanks again everyone.

[Andy7oaks]

Let me get this right, you bought the ugly one with the silicon implants ?

After all these years there's still no getting you guys away from the rolling equivalent of the Monster thickburger.

Jeez.

Regards

Andy

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by Andy7oaks

Let me get this right, you bought the ugly one with the silicon implants ?

After all these years there's still no getting you guys away from the rolling equivalent of the Monster thickburger.

Jeez.

Regards

Andy

LOL! Yeah,... I brung the ugly one to the dance I guess. But guess what,... they ain't implants. C'mon ya'll stop reminding me of the risk I took. So far, the risk is soooo much fun!

[DaGS1800]

OK caddy lovers get the F off our forum!.... Clowns..

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by DaGS1800

OK caddy lovers get the F off our forum!.... Clowns..

Sorry man! However, I'm neither a clown, or a Caddy Lover. Fact is, before my thinking about the V, I had trouble distinquishing a chevy from a caddy while passing either of them on the street,... well except for the Corvette. Everybody with a pulse knows a modern Vette when they see one. So calling me a Caddy lover is a bit strong. I am a lover of performance cars done well, and pound-for-pound value when it comes to these cars. But I got your message, and will comply.

[55YaN63]

I test drove (new V,c63,m3) And I am not the biggest caddyfan to say the least.Don't get me wrong the C63 was fun reminded me of my old E55 only handled better,The M3 DCT was a totally diffrent story handled great but just being used to driving AMG it lack the power.Now we have the CTS-V i knew it was going to be fast,So the first thing i do when i get in is a 50 yard burnout then hit the highway(Jersey)thing is an animal!!It was a little slick out to but i still took traction off(could'nt help myself).The V picks power up like a modded E55 and coming up and down off ramps it handled great even though it feels heavy.I'm not going to get in to interior materials(personal prefrence)I will say the caddy has better material.Back to the C63 alot of fun to drive but it feels like a kids car(your first AMG),Great car for your first AMG even if it's faster then the more expensive models it's still not even on par with them.Back to hadling I'm used to driving my AMG sill i thought the C63 handled wonderfully!Then I got into the CTS_V that magnetic suspension really works wonder's!Would i pick the caddy over the C63?? NO but thats my biased prefrence>!

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by 55YaN63

I test drove (new V,c63,m3) And I am not the biggest caddyfan to say the least.Don't get me wrong the C63 was fun reminded me of my old E55 only handled better,The M3 DCT was a totally diffrent story handled great but just being used to driving AMG it lack the power.Now we have the CTS-V i knew it was going to be fast,So the first thing i do when i get in is a 50 yard burnout then hit the highway(Jersey)thing is an animal!!It was a little slick out to but i still took traction off(could'nt help myself).The V picks power up like a modded E55 and coming up and down off ramps it handled great even though it feels heavy.I'm not going to get in to interior materials(personal prefrence)I will say the caddy has better material.Back to the C63 alot of fun to drive but it feels like a kids car(your first AMG),Great car for your first AMG even if it's faster then the more expensive models it's still not even on par with them.Back to hadling I'm used to driving my AMG sill i thought the C63 handled wonderfully!Then I got into the CTS_V that magnetic suspension really works wonder's!Would i pick the caddy over the C63?? NO but thats my biased prefrence>!

Finally,... someone whose able to put many of my thoughts to words. Only my biased towards AMG and Benz in general wasn't strong enough to resist all the positives the V had over the C63. However, with about a week behind the wheel,... well I'll put it this way. It's like the jets from the Soviet Block (M3 & C63), small, quick and agile in their own right. Then comes the F-14 Tomcat. A larger platform, but so much more power. Didn't take long for the American 'the bigger the better' way of looking at life captured air superiority. Now there's a lot wrong with that little analogy, but it's functional in it's own way. The V's 'Ring' superiority is testimony I guess. Just wish I could easily reconcile my V future with my AMG history.

But after all is said and done,.. how will I feel a year from now? My C32 is going on 6 years old, and today I feel the same about it as I felt the day I bought it. The big un-answer question for me is will I feel the same about the V. Will I even own it 6 years from now?


Careful,... DaGS1800 will kick our asses. I like my ass just the way it is,.... un-bruised!

[SeattleBum]

Originally Posted by novasl

Also, it's great that Cadillac went to the lengths it did to get your business. Of course, you never get something for nothing - so if you aren't paying now, more than likely you'll be paying later.

Yes, because we all know that MB has a history of Japanese-like reliability and AMG resale is the best in the market! How much does a $200k 2005 CL65 AMG go for now? Oh yeah, about $60k...

Good luck with your CTS-V! I'm sure you'll have many miles of insane tire-burning fun. Some of the guys on the Caddy forums have done simple retunes of the ECU (no headers, intake or exhaust mods) and have eeked out ~50whp/tq on a safe A/F ratio. Another 50whp with a pulley change and H/I/E mods. And, as mentioned, don't worry about your rear (did that come out right?) They've supposedly made that part a non-issue. Eliminating wheel-hop with the unequal length half-shafts definitely helped too. My '05 CTSV went through 4 rear differentials (1 when I was stock and 3 after adding the supercharger). Caddy covered ALL of them under warranty even though they could have voided the warranty on the driveline b/c of my mods. The wheel hop was likely the culprit that destroyed the diffs. Launching that thing was a roller-coaster ride. Once it got moving though (trapped 119mph in the 1/4) it was a fun car in a straight line and through the twisties.

[Razorecko]

^ hell even toyota can't make reliable vehicles anymore. I had an 04 landcruiser and that thing was a total pos. Atleast they didnt screw up lexus.

[ericpd]

Originally Posted by SeattleBum

Yes, because we all know that MB has a history of Japanese-like reliability and AMG resale is the best in the market! How much does a $200k 2005 CL65 AMG go for now? Oh yeah, about $60k...

Good luck with your CTS-V! I'm sure you'll have many miles of insane tire-burning fun. Some of the guys on the Caddy forums have done simple retunes of the ECU (no headers, intake or exhaust mods) and have eeked out ~50whp/tq on a safe A/F ratio. Another 50whp with a pulley change and H/I/E mods. And, as mentioned, don't worry about your rear (did that come out right?) They've supposedly made that part a non-issue. Eliminating wheel-hop with the unequal length half-shafts definitely helped too. My '05 CTSV went through 4 rear differentials (1 when I was stock and 3 after adding the supercharger). Caddy covered ALL of them under warranty even though they could have voided the warranty on the driveline b/c of my mods. The wheel hop was likely the culprit that destroyed the diffs. Launching that thing was a roller-coaster ride. Once it got moving though (trapped 119mph in the 1/4) it was a fun car in a straight line and through the twisties.

Thanks Seattle. Check this out, I haven't put in a full days work since I took delivery. Took off early today too. <smile>. Think I'll settle down maybe Wednesday. But I did make a very strategic move,... I took the Dean of the Department for a ride in it (he's a BMW owner). Always wondered why he kept making remarks about the C32,... he's a gear head too. Began noticing some redundancy last nite and this mornin'. Can get turn-by-turn from OnStar AND the Nav. Didn't know OnStar did that. Thought it was like TeleAid,... much more. And check this out, the Nav does 3-D imaging too. You're right about the wheel hop,... none what so ever. Learned about the power-shifting feature as well,... no clutch needed once the revs gets to a certain point. According to the lit, this thing has dual clutches. One doc suggests there's a clutch actually in the trans, read another doc and no suggestion of this whatsoever. Confusing. Plan on getting the skinny on that sometimes this evening over at the Caddy forum. You're right about the diff. One of the half axles seems a bit thicker than the other one. They both seem to be the same length though,... prolly just my eyes. There's also an oil cooler back there, the tech pointed it out to me when they were checking fluids for delivery. The only thing I'm not feelin' is this fake suede on the steering wheel. That ain't gonna last long and will get ugly fast. I refuse to wear gloves,... there's no clearer statement of your dweebness! Except maybe the sleeves of a tennis sweater tied around your neck. I am thinking about getting my wheels chromed. Saw a customer's in the shop area with chromes, very nice looking. Just can't seem to get on board with the black wheels, especially with the V done in Black Raven.

Oh,... for some reason, I seem to be passing a lot of C63's on the road. Can't explain it. Up until I got the V, it was a news event every time one was sighted. Now all of a sudden, I'm seeing them more frequently. The one a saw today sure was gorgeous! Damn!