cek

My Car:
"Alejandro" - 2010 C63 AMG P31 w/ 3,600 Miles running 92 Octane (Shell)

My purchase thread.

Context:
July 17, 2010

I wanted to get a baseline on my P31 using the same dyno that many others in our region were using. Both to provide me with a baseline and to see just what the P31 provides compared to other tunes.

I decided yesterday that I had time to do it today and I had read on the forums that Even Money was already planning on being there; having someone to coach me given I'd never done it before would be great!

Conditions:
Temp: 73-78 Degrees F
Barometer: 30.10 in-Hg
Humidity: 34-40%
Elevation: 200-ft

Dyno:
Carburator Connection Kirkland, WA
Dynojet Model 424xLC2
All pulls (except one) done in 4th gear w/ SAE Correction Factor & Smoothing 5 on the same day, on the same dyno.

Results:
Baseline (no mods) (Before pulls)
428.09 RWHP / 377.90 RWTQ
426.61 RWHP / 381.90 RWTQ
423.60 RWHP / 389.06 RWTQ 5th Gear
Average for 3 runs = 425.35 RWHP / 381.97 RWTQ

Baseline + Charcoal Filters Removed (After pulls):
422.75 RWHP / 381.75 RWTQ
420.38 RWHP / 381.30 RWTQ
418.91 RWHP / 380.55 RWTQ
Average for 3 runs = 420.56 RWHP / 380.63 RWTQ

Gains:
Power / Torque vs. Same Day Baseline
Using average: -4.79 (-1%) RWHP / -2.33 (0%) RWTQ
Using max: -4.53 (-1%) RWHP / -6.43 (-2%) RWTQ


Conclusion:
Using the typically accepted 18% loss @ the drive train it appears my car is putting out just over 500HP / 450ft-lbs at the crank. Well in excess of the factory rating of 481HP / 442ft-lbs. I'm not complaining.

It appears the P31 tune + lighter crank, rods, & pistons provide roughly similar performance gains to a standard C63 with a Kleemann K1 tune (See @superlubricity's thread here).

On this day, for some unexplicable reason, removing the Charcoal filters caused a ~%1 LOSS in horsepower / torque. I won't lose any sleep over it and will keep them removed.

4th vs. 5th gear appears to have little or no effect except that on my stock P31 the speed limiter cut in at 174MPH which was at about 6700RPM cutting the run short of redline.

Running in 5th gear was a hell of a lot more fun though. First, you get to stand on the accelerator much longer and second, it's wicked cool watching the speedometer hit 175!

I really wished I would had grabbed my phone and video recorded the runs! Next time...

Thanks Will, for helping me out!

And thanks to @superlubricity for setting the standard on how to post results like this :-).

Graph/photos

My last 3 baseline runs (including the one we ran in 5th gear):


My last 3 runs after we removed the charcoal filters:


A graph showing the best baseline compared to the best run without the charcoal filters:


Lastly a shot of Easy Money's '09 next to my car. Crappy mobile phone picture...

superlubricity

Love the data, love the post.

Thanks for sharing, cek. Can you email me the runfiles?

BerBer63

Thanks for the post, looks like MB just changed the tune to those of their upper class models plus the upgraded internals. Also the torque figure is much more in line with what every tuned C63 is putting down unlike that other p31. Thanks also for an end to the charcoal debate temporarily. It does nothing in or out worth noting.

Sincity

Wow....that is even a few more HP than my K1. Of course, different conditions. Is the P31 internals lighter? It would be great to be able to flash to a factory tune.

I wish you read my bumper plug DIY thread first: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-plug-diy.html

C63newdude

Good info. Congrats on your car

Mort

cek - Congrats those are great numbers. I'll bet you are very happy with them. The P31 package appears to be stronger than advertised, which is a nice bonus. Maybe the factory rating is on a load bearing dyno or they are just being conservative for some reason. Either way the results are very strong.

Thanks for posting the data. I for one sure appreciate it.

Hope you had a great time!

Even Money

Good to see you again Charlie! When I can figure out signing up for youtube, I'll post a video, for some reason my gmail login is causing problems.

The car ran really strong on all the pulls....Based on this the P31 is a bargain! It's certainly higher than 481 at the crank.

A couple of notes from today:

1. This dyno is consistent and accurate. I've been there twice and seen multiple runs. My car, '09 with K1 today ran a 406 whp/370 tq which was nearly identical to what I ran a few months back. The only diff was today I had drag radials and last time I had winter tires..go figure...

2. I'll send you all my files super..

3. The dyno operator changed the orientation of my intake tubes after the first run so that they were more vertical and thus could get more air from the fans....this netted 20 whp!

4. I'm going to get a K1 reflash. I think this might get me more on par with other folks who had K1 tunes. Reason? I compared my runs with folks who are getting about 425 whp and my hp/tq curves are virtually the same until about 4,000 rpm...where mine start to shallow out for some reason.

5. 4th gear and 5th gear pulls were virtually the same...except I got to see 180 on the speedo

All in all it was good to see the P31 run so well....maybe I'll have to trade mine in!

bhamg

Great results, a very impressive showing for the P31.

avengerboater

Awesome numbers, Charlie!!! Glad to see the extra money for P31 finally amounting to something more than just a few cosmetic mods.

hhughes1

Does the P31 package include lighter two piece rotors? Looks like this package may be more than MB is advertising, to bad the car mag comparisons haven't seemed to notice. Might knock down their beloved M3 from its best car in the world status.

simonlam168

nice number!!! I just got MHP reflash for my P31. I will finally dyno on a dynopack in 2 weeks.

rdl666

Thanks for such a detailed description, I think your results are more accurate than the data we got from our P31 dyno (P31 DYNO post). HP is relatively consistent between yours and ours, so around 420 - 425 RWHP is probably accurate for P31.

black-clk500

awesome post--about time we get some solid P31 results.
Makes me feel a little better about signing over that big check next month when mine comes in

cek

The brakes in the P31 package are described thusly:

"AMG high-performance braking system with compound front rotors:
14.2-inch compound construction brake rotors with 6—piston fixed caliper
at front axle, perforated and internally ventilated for optimum weight
and enhanced fatigue strength."

I do not know how these differ from the brakes that come on the standard C63. I have been unable to find any additional specs beyond the above and would appreciate it if someone could point at some.

superlubricity

The P31 rotors are lightweight 2-piece rotors. The P30 rotors were about 6-lbs lighter (per rotor) than the standard C63. They changed the design a bit for P31 but you should still expect a similar weight savings.

RStevens63

Thanks for dynoing and posting cek! Question for Even Money and cek, were the air inlet tube orientations changed on Even Money's 406rw runs? Was he making 386rw in stock configuration? Was the same modification performed on cek's P31?Also can anyone 100% confirm that the P31 package includes SLS internals? They are .5 kilo lighter but have the same compression ratio as a regular rotating assembly so the only way you'll see a gain on the dyno is if you're using an older DJ (intertia based)--lighter wheels show gains on these as well. Newer DJs and most other dyno's are eddy current/load based and will not show driveline weight reduction as gains. Per MBUSA's site there is nothing about a different bottom end in P31 cars, just revised tuning as far as power/torque go. Based on the results I think we can all agree it's easily possible from just tuning. SimonLam, I look forward to seeing tuned P31 results. Dynapack's read a bit lower than inertia based DJs so the results won't be 1:1 comparable however if you have baseline runs we should garner some useful info.Thank you guys.

avengerboater

And the Evosport 2-piece front rotors are each 14lbs lighter than stock, right? Thus, they are 8lbs lighter than the p30 or p31 rotors?

juicee63

I do not think the filter removal caused any loss. Had you kept em in you would notice a bigger decrease in hp as you IAT's were likely higher after the first round of pulls. No fan will ever get the car back fast enough.

I am impressed with this P31 , I would expect some stellar 1/4 mile times coming soon..:-)

RStevens63

I believe every manufacturer in the world uses a Cartec dyno for testing and emissions certification. They probably just threw a S/SL tune in the P31.

bhamg

Based on the one photo I've seen of the P31 rotors I expect them to be a little lighter than the P30 rotors...the P31 appears to be two-piece but no longer floating...I don't see any assembly clips/buttons on the P31 rotors. It's missing that great "technical" look of a floating rotor IMO. I need to see it in person though to be sure.

Even Money

I didn't do a stock baseline on this dyno. I ran 386 then the dyno operator realized my inlet tubes were probably not getting enough flow due to their horizontal orientation in relation to the dyno fans. Once I get the video posted, you'll see that if you remove then replace the inlet tubes in an almost vertical postition, they're able to capture much more air. After I did that, I was making about 406. Cek went after me, so his inlets were properly oriented from the start.

superlubricity

Yes.

superlubricity

There is no more air to capture. As long as you've got good/strong fans running (which they do at CarbConn) and you leave them in the stock location you'll get the right results. There is no need to make them look like snorkels.

This is how all of my previous dynos (59 of 'em ) were done at CarbConn; same for avb, nrgy, cek, etc.

I agree you should call up James and see about getting a K1 reflash. Something doesn't seem right with your output.

RStevens63

Thank you for the clarification. While I understand the want to change inlet tube orientation to increase power/torque on the dyno, it's another variable that must be added the comparison equation--I've not heard of anyone else modifying the inlets on the dyno and netting such gains. It also means that it's also quite possible that cek's P31 makes 408rw (IIRC 428 was highest corrected pull?) with unmodified inlet tubes. This all goes to show how important airflow (or lack thereof) on a dyno really is. Running an indicated 180mph without the requisite real world airflow is really doing a disservice to these cars. cek have you had a chance to run any of the other C63s in your area?

RStevens63

Some air is better than no air. How much velocity do the fans at this particular dyno generate? Up to 174-180mph? If not, there will be gains to be had by getting more air into the motor, this is especially true of N/A powerplants. Just to clarify you left your inlets stock to dyno or "adjusted" them?TY