Cory @ Kleemann

Horst was employed by the (now defunct) KLEEMANN dealer in Dubai- not in europe and not by KLEEMANN A/S. Horst has never been responsible for any research, development, or design of any KLEEMANN product (seeing as how he's never been on KLEEMANN's payroll). Perhaps he claims to, but I'm afraid it's not correct. Then again, what do I know, I've only worked for KLEEMANN for the last decade....

RStevens63

I'm not going to argue with you, you have reasons for posting what you do.

Rene B., he was another former employee that told me about the same hardware and software problems.

A lot of what's gone on with Kleemann in Europe isn't advertised here.

betrezra

Blackbenz - PM me the list of tricks and tips to take my car from 11.xx's to 10.xx's....
I'll buy you a case of beer !! The good stuff imported from Wisconsin

Mx_AMG

New Glarus??

otoupalik

ADMIN WARNING:

RStevens - it is known to the staff of this site that you are in practice a representative of a competitor to Kleemann. While you may not be an employee of said company, you certianly represent them on this site unofficially.

As such, and even if this were not the case, this line of communication is not really acceptable. It is one thing to state or question a vendor/sponsor, but arguing that they are lying is just out of place on this site.

Kleemann is far more able to detail what has and has not been done then former potentially upset employees or worse, people who worked for someone who once sold said goods.

I encourage you to stay on topic and only post what you know to be true or if you post opinion, to state it as such.

Stay on topic.

RStevens63

And who would that be? I give props where they are due (Kleemann, Renntech, MKB, MHP, MBH, even Evosport) so who exactly are you talking about?

Please point to where I said Corey was lying? I said he has a reason to post what he does, which is not the same thing sorry.

I can post the emails if you'd like. I have proof to back my claims and they are far more detailed than some would like them to be I'm sure.

Thanks for your understanding, my intent was never to talk badly about Kleemann just highlight how many others have tried and failed with supercharging the M156 thus far. If you read my posts you will see this I'm sure.

Thank You

KLR CLS

WTF is wrong with people in this thread. Everybody not talking about this supercharged M156 from Weistec please FOADIAF. This place is getting rediculous with all the tuner bashing and sniping that is done from supposed experts in the know. Honestly...

RStevens63

Actually we are all waiting on Weistec to post how they beefed up the trans, tuned the tcu and built the converter to handle the torque.

Lots of questions have been asked, valid ones that need to be answered, however no response yet.

You can have all the power in the world even use a standalone ecu, but unless we fix the trannys we won't go anywhere.

Let's give them time and see what happens.

RStevens63

OT but what is "FOADIAF" never heard that one before?

AlexCim

+1

I even sent an email but never got a response. In fact, I emailed as early as this thread was 5 posts in.

Maverick1975

They replied to my email just after xmas so someone is actually home there! just said details would be forthcoming. Sent another email earlier today.

brad @ evosport

I have yet to see a tranny break on a car that was not abused to the point that it would break stock. (ie: brake stands, drag racing without line-locks).

JRCart's car has 637 wheel on a dyno dynamics on NOS and it has not broken one tranny or diff. He has done at least as many drag runs as anyone, no breakage.

We have dozens of clients with SL, C, CLK, CLS cars around the world with all the goodies and no issues.

To state that it is a NEED to beef these things up is a huge assumption. From my FIRST HAND AND REAR experience with 100+ 63 cars that all have over 100hp more than stock, these mods are not needed.

I know Josh has stated the same many times and he actually broke his.

Thanks
Brad

otoupalik

Weistec has not replied as they are not a sponsor and are working through the steps to be. They will reply once they are a site sponsor and are ready to release information.

You should not hold it against a company that does not want to post till all the t's are crossed and i's are dotted.

I realize we are all eager, but let's just be patient and respectful.

thanks
Brad

SonnyakaPig

With all due respect, I think a number of us are curious to hear what this company does to beef up the trans.

Even if the trans is as strong as you know it to be, there still is a demand to increase the torque capacity of this trans, and Weistec claims to know how to do this, so we're just waiting to hear their information, which I'm sure can and will help numerous people.

It's all about the platform really.

JamE55

Make the car lighter and use CF for all body panels. Should net you around 10.xx's if not lower.

blackbenzz

It's just a ricer hoopty. You just bolt parts on and go, no R&D needed. LZH can point you in the right direction lol. Pm me your mod list and I will give you some advice
The only carbon fiber on my car is a hood and rear diffuser lol. But yea doing a cf body would help!

RStevens63

JRCarts monster (props for building it!) is an anomaly if I've ever seen one. I don't think you have any other cars built to that level that have been raced like his (or I would have read about it as well)?

All the goodies may include all the bolt-ons but that won't push TQ to a level to break a 7G.

Now let me ask you, how many 7Gs have you had apart, personally? No offense but I can tell you're not a tech (hey you run the business no shame in that) but the answer here is zero. I have other questions to ask to verify if you claim any other number.

I think if you talk to Dads about what he found in his after spraying 8x with stock and aftermarket components not just one time you wouldn't be as quick to say that we are assuming anything. He's BTDT has the T-Shirt You will get there as well, and that my friend is the brick wall we all face, the 7G trans.

Do you know how many clutches are in the converter of a 7G? I do, and it's not sufficient to hold the kind of torque JR's car will make post blower install. And again neither is the trans.

BTW, driveline parts are rated in TQ not HP.

As I stated above we're all waiting patiently for Weistec to respond and the questions presented to them are all valid based on real world experience from racers on this forum alone. Instead of ignoring them or brushing them under the carpet we should address them as intelligent adults beforehand, otherwise what's the point of a forum like this right?

Thank You

LZH

"It's the truth that makes the wit sarcasm"

-Oscar Wilde

dodger63

I almost peed my bed. You are a character

brad @ evosport

Actually we have built about a dozen CLK63BS to his same spec, not including those that were built by importers of ours in other countries, one that is even faster 1/4 mile than his (City Performance in Australia). In all, we have done some level of work on about 220 CLK63BS worldwide. Very few of the cars we build are posted here. Only those of forum members. If you then add in other chassis we have likely 80-100 cars that are running with 100whp more than stock. To assume that JRCart is an anomaly is just that, pure assumption. He is just the poster child due to the magazine cover article, the fact that he was first and the fact that he is so active on this site.

Ok, so you seem to know the limits, please educate us. I have cars making into the high 500's and 600's wheel torque that are not breaking tranny's.

This is a very condescending comment, but I will reply. First, please don't ask me rhetorical questions (again, they are just condescending and rude). Second, we, including I, have had ZERO apart as not one 63 we have ever worked on save for Josh has broken. And Josh's broke after he worked here and he took it to the dealer. So in 300+ tuned 63's that have come through here since 2008, we have had ONE fail. And that one admitted to abusing it.

Back at ya, how many have you had apart? I speak from experience, not hearsay.

So you are not speaking of first hand experience? Interesting that you would attempt to minimize my opinion but yours is valid even though it is not first hand? (that is the condescending part that I was referring to).

I have seen very detailed images of the tranny apart after failure and have had long discussions with Josh about his. So it is safe to say, I have as much info at the very least as you have.

Comments like "you will get there too" assume so much and are again so condescending. Keith had a failure. Others have not, including Jim (who is nearly as fast and has as much HP and has sprayed at least as many times if not more). So why does that make the part the problem. Maybe Keith was not lucky and had a bad unit, then the aftermarket items he used were not up to snuff. Truth is that none of us know, and assuming that the tranny is to blame is just that - assumption and speculation at this point. Far more data points of failure need to be found to come to that conclusion. Right now, 2 in 300-400 highly tuned cars that I know of have failed (I am including cars we have built as well as cars from other tuners).

I can google or look at pictures and count as well as anyone, but speculating that something will not work is again, just that. More assumption and speculation. You may be correct, you may not be. But to make authoritative statements of fact that are just guesses is a real pet peeve of mine.

Actually, they can be broken by either. I have seen high HP cars with low torque (BMW Forced Induction M3's) rip apart transmissions way faster then AMG high TQ cars. It is all about the package, the way power is delivered, etc.

However, you are on to a very good point. In another thread, we are talking about headers. 4-1 v 4-2-1. We tried both, use the Try-y. The 4-1 produced more torque down low, but far too much. Why would you add more tq to a tq heavy car. That is counter-intuitive. To cars with low tq, you tune more tq in. To cars with low hp (relative to tq), you tune more hp in (at least we do). It is possible that Keith is breaking his trans/converter due to the package he has. We found all kinds of issues with the 4-1 as far as the torque limitations, the drive line shock, the erratic nature of acceleration as the electronics fought the car. Overall, the car was faster and better/smoother to drive with the try-y. So, yes, there is one very fundamental difference between a Keith's and Jim's cars - the header design.

Your questions might or might not be valid, that is up to Weistec to decide. It is their product and they can decide that for themselves. And again, the info you are questioning is based on one drag racer, correct? There are not multiple people out there with this failure that I have missed, are there?

Again, give them a chance. I don't know them more than a 5 minute phone conversation, but they are not sponsors, they did not start the thread and they have professionally agreed not to post till they are paying sponsors. How is that the same as ignoring questions? Are we really so impatient?

Thanks
Brad

LZH

Great post and I couldn't agree more with the above statement in bold.
The amount of misinformation, speculation and outright ignorance that is posted on here is mind boggling.

callmiro

C63 Guy

Seeing as how I surprisingly seem to be the only one here with firsthand experience inside these transmissions, I have two observations:

1) The 722.9 are absolutely gorgeous on the inside. Beautifully machined and obviously quite well thought out. However...

2) Mercedes DID change their design due to a number of failures. Most of them were in the MCT equipped cars (2nd hand information, but from a reliable source) but there were also others, no doubt like me, that just threw caution to the wind and looked for the transmission's limit.

What does this add up to? I don't know. I just like having insider information to post.

Just kidding... What it adds up to is that the torque converter and transmission are a really tightly integrated system. They were designed together and work great, even well outside of their intended operating parameters, but when Mercedes upgraded to the MCT, they learned the hard way that they had to upgrade the internals to match the new power capacity.

One of the things RStevens has right is that Weistec does say they upgraded the transmission. I, for one, am VERY interested in what they came up with as I've done a whole lot of looking into this thing and there really aren't many solutions out there. In fact I only found two: a machined valve body and a billet internal torque converter. (The L10 clutches turned out to be not so great). However, raising the stall too much will trip the ECU-TCU into doing unhappy things, and too high a locking percentage could potentially put excessive shock load into the rest of the driveline. And as Brad correctly pointed out during one of our discussions, machining the valve body without reducing the orifice diameter will actually lower the line pressure. Kind of a conundrum. Never got an answer from the guys that do the machine work what their solution to that is...

I dunno. I'm just excited to to see someone get a blown M156 running. I hope they get it done quickly.

Josh

RStevens63

You have no idea.

brad @ evosport

thanks for the input Josh!