Centerlink / Inner Tie Rod / Drag Link....HELP!

[sfclk]

just put in the new trucktec link in...steers like new. no clicking, clunking... can't wait to get the alignment dialed in. i'm going to try to get it to 0 toe. hate when i get defective parts...

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[hhseouljah]

how hard is install. did you do it yourself?

hours?


TIA.

Originally Posted by sfclk

just put in the new trucktec link in...steers like new. no clicking, clunking... can't wait to get the alignment dialed in. i'm going to try to get it to 0 toe.

hate when i get defective parts...

[AMS Performance]

Originally Posted by sfclk

just put in the new trucktec link in...steers like new. no clicking, clunking... can't wait to get the alignment dialed in. i'm going to try to get it to 0 toe.

hate when i get defective parts...

Told you it would help alot . You may want to run a tiny bit of toe, you don't have to run full zero since it does give you a bit more precise handling with a bit of toe. , just have them set toe to stock specs.

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by AMS Performance

The effect of negative camber on handling is not as extreme as most make it out to be, it does help alittle bit, but you are much better off getting very high quality wide rubber at zero camber than mediocre tires with alot of negative camber. The car certainly won't perform badly in corners but more importantly you will get much more straight line traction and it will give the car a more planted feel vs. the squirrely feel negative camber can give a car.

Zero camber? According to you, someone should walk into an alignment shop and say "I'd like you to align that car. I want zero camber."

You have no idea what you're talking about. When a car is aligned, it's on an alignment rack – and the car is stationary. The alignment specifications take that into consideration, because when the car is moving, the suspension geometry changes. When a car moves in a forward direction, the car's center of gravity moves rearward (weight shift), and the front suspension is unloaded. When the suspension is unloaded, the geometry changes. If the front end of a car had zero camber while stationary, it would have POSITIVE camber while in motion. That's what your alignment recommendation will result in - positive camber while moving forward.

[AMS Performance]

Yes,

Lots of people purposely run zero camber on the REARS (I am talking about rears, I never said run zero on fronts, please read carefully) for maximum straightline traction. On the front it isn't as significant, usually you run alittle bit more in front than rears. Running Zero on rears is the best way to get maximum traction and the reason CLKs have problems getting power to the ground is they run too much negative camber (especially when dropped).

MarcusF, I'm flattered that you must follow up every single one of my posts via search but don't let it get out of hand, this is the nth thread you done that.

[sfclk]

Originally Posted by hhseouljah

how hard is install. did you do it yourself?

hours?


TIA.

1.5 hours on jack stands and electric impact gun.

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by AMS Performance

Yes,

Lots of people purposely run zero camber on the REARS (I am talking about rears, I never said run zero on fronts, please read carefully) for maximum straightline traction. On the front it isn't as significant, usually you run alittle bit more in front than rears. Running Zero on rears is the best way to get maximum traction and the reason CLKs have problems getting power to the ground is they run too much negative camber (especially when dropped).

MarcusF, I'm flattered that you must follow up every single one of my posts via search but don't let it get out of hand, this is the nth thread you done that.

Read carefully? The thread title is “Centerlink / Inner Tie Rod / Drag Link....HELP!”. Please, tell me, is there a rear centerlink? Rear tie rod? Rear drag link? LOL. OK, suppose you are talking about the rear. Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Lamborghini, Audi, Maserati, they all have negative camber specs from the factory. So, their engineers are wrong, and you’re right? Since you're an alignment wiz, tell me, when the factory camber specs call for -1° 30’, what does the 30’ mean? I know it's thirty feet, but what exactly does that mean?

And what’s up with your nonsense about me following you around? LOL I’ve posted over 1100 times. I remember pointing out your insanity twice. You must have me confused with someone.


Zero camber - I’m still laughing. Ever ride a motorcycle? Ever go around a curve with the tires at zero camber?

[Williams707]

Originally Posted by MarcusF

Zero camber? According to you, someone should walk into an alignment shop and say "I'd like you to align that car. I want zero camber."

You have no idea what you're talking about. When a car is aligned, it's on an alignment rack – and the car is stationary. The alignment specifications take that into consideration, because when the car is moving, the suspension geometry changes. When a car moves in a forward direction, the car's center of gravity moves rearward (weight shift), and the front suspension is unloaded. When the suspension is unloaded, the geometry changes. If the front end of a car had zero camber while stationary, it would have POSITIVE camber while in motion. That's what your alignment recommendation will result in - positive camber while moving forward.

Is this more accurate for our cars? This data was given to me when I went to have a digital alignment. P.S. Thanks for the DIY complement.

CLK W208 Alignment Minimum to Maximum Data

Front

1. Front Camber: Min -1 degree 16' | Max -0 degree 36'
   
2. Front Caster: Min 4 degree 23' | Max 5 degree 23'
   
3. Front Toe: Min 1.4mm | Max 3.3mm

Rear

1. Rear Camber: Min -1 degree 45' | Max -0 degree 45'
   
2. Rear Toe: Min 2.4mm | Max 3.8mm

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by Williams707

Is this more accurate for our cars? This data was given to me when I went to have a digital alignment. P.S. Thanks for the DIY complement.

CLK W208 Alignment Minimum to Maximum Data

Front

1. Front Camber: Min -1 degree 16' | Max -0 degree 36'
   
2. Front Caster: Min 4 degree 23' | Max 5 degree 23'
   
3. Front Toe: Min 1.4mm | Max 3.3mm

Rear[list=1][*]Rear Camber: Min -1 degree 45' | Max -0 degree 45' [*]Rear Toe: Min 2.4mm | Max 3.8mm[/LIST

Yes, the specs you listed are correct for a W208. The reason you see such a variance is because the camber specs are based on ride height.

I’ve attached a number of photos from an alignment article I wrote several years ago. The first photo shows the pickups on the wheels. Next you can see the camera bolted to the wall. The camera ‘looks’ at the pickups on all four wheels and passes that info in real time to the monitor. The third photo is the monitor, which tells the tech what the total alignment (all four wheels) looks like in real time. The reason all four are important is because changing one corner changes the other three. That third photo is what a 220 S looked like when it came into the shop. It had been aligned three times at another shop and still didn’t ride right. The areas you see in red are why. The last photo is the front end after the alignment. In the upper left of the first green bar, you can see the minimum camber spec. To the right is the maximum. Look carefully at the green bars. You’ll note they’re not flat across the top. Those recesses are the sweet spots. It steps down twice. The tech wants it in the lowest section for all areas, but it’s not possible. Close is as good as it gets. Getting it right for one wheel pulls it out for another – and those are just the front. Adjusting the rear changes the front, and visa versa.








You deserved the DIY complement. It was a four star post and we should be thanking you – you are the man!

[sfclk]

MarcusF, do the alignment ranges account for the driver's weight? caster not adjustable?

i remember reading that some cars were designed to sit higher at the driver's corner to compensate for the driver's weight.

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by sfclk

MarcusF, do the alignment ranges account for the driver's weight? caster not adjustable?

i remember reading that some cars were designed to sit higher at the driver's corner to compensate for the driver's weight.

No, the range of alignment specs only account for ride height. You can see in the prior photos, MB techs tried to get the specs as close as possible from side to side. I don't believe the factory does any compensation for driver weight by the springs. Unless I'm mistaken, left and right springs are the same. Left and right side springs, have the same part number and they are the same height - I've personally measured them. The same applies for the pads. My OE pads were the same from side to side. If I am mistaken, and those springs are side specific, my CLK55 springs (which appearred indentical from side to side) only had a one in four chance of being installed properly. I've never seen a new Mercedes-Benz that sat higher on the driver's side. When changing them, if the spring doesn't seat properly in the pad, the ride height at that corner will be higher. When you pull your pads, you'll notice they are deformed. They do that over time. Rather than trying to fit the new spring in the old deformed pad, some people buy new pads with their new springs.

On a W208, caster is indirectly adjustable by using multiple camber bolt kits. This is another good reason for using a shop that has $50K+ in alignment equipment - adjust the camber to change the caster without getting the camber out of spec. Here's a picture of the camber bolt.

[Chappy]

Originally Posted by MarcusF

A degree or so of negative camber on both sides improves cornering without much of an effect on tire life. The goal is to have the negative camber change to zero camber as the vehicle’s weight shifts on to the outer tire in a curve. This creates a nice fat contact patch when it’s needed most. The W208 has an unequal length double wishbone design. In a curve, it rotates causing negative camber (in relation to the rest of the vehicle) on the outer wheel. Although negative to the body, the tire in a more verticle position to the ground, utilizing that fat contact patch I just mentioned. All factory alignment specs for the W208 call for negative camber. If they had neutral or positive camber, the car would devour tires and handle poorly.

[Chappy]

Hey Marcus, how many miles on your CLK now?

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by Chappy

Hey Marcus, how many miles on your CLK now?

I'm at 130,000. It's still running good too. I just did the B service and it didn't need any oil since the last service - 10,000 miles ago! Truth be told, I did a "half-a-B" service. I'll change cabin and engine air filters this weekend. I got distracted building some new MB web pages :

Additional photos of the new E-Coupe , which was an add on to another page.

The new AMG SLS Gullwing

That and I'm looking at those Alpine iDA head units.



These are just radios and media managers. They read flash drives, iPhones, and iPods. I'm trying to find out if the flash drive can be replaced with a 500GB USB powered external hard drive. Couple that with the PAC cable so the steering wheel controls still work, and the only other question will be if it will plug into the OE Bose amp, or if new amps, speakers and rewiring is needed. I'm looking at all these projects to take my mind off the fact that you AMG guys are so much faster than us mere mortals.

[sfclk]

MarcusF, I had a set of 4 of the front camber bolts for max negative camber.

i cannot understand how shortening or lengthening the lower control arm with camber bolts can change caster.

also, do you know how many degrees 3mm is? i didnt some converting and calculated close to .5 degrees.

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by sfclk

MarcusF, I had a set of 4 of the front camber bolts for max negative camber.

i cannot understand how shortening or lengthening the lower control arm with camber bolts can change caster.

also, do you know how many degrees 3mm is? i didnt some converting and calculated close to .5 degrees.

When I asked the tech at MB of Valencia, he told me modern MB chassis don’t have shims and cams for caster adjustments. He said they have to use different camber bolts to make caster changes. I don't know how that changes the steering angle, but looking at the attached before/after photos, it must work, because I can see the caster settings were changed. I can tell you this, he had a drawer full of camber bolts, and there weren't all the same.

Sorry, but I have no idea what 3mm would translate to in degrees.

[Williams707]

Originally Posted by AMS Performance

Yes,

Lots of people purposely run zero camber on the REARS (I am talking about rears, I never said run zero on fronts, please read carefully) for maximum straightline traction. On the front it isn't as significant, usually you run alittle bit more in front than rears. Running Zero on rears is the best way to get maximum traction and the reason CLKs have problems getting power to the ground is they run too much negative camber (especially when dropped).

MarcusF, I'm flattered that you must follow up every single one of my posts via search but don't let it get out of hand, this is the nth thread you done that.

Sounds to me that Marcus is just saying that setting the camber to Zero does not work in all situations with our W208 CLKs. It also depends on other things which is why MB gives a +/- and min/max tolerance. Most of us here have gone over the MB recommended Tire/Rim specifications so those tolerance levels are accepted because everyone may not want to spend the money / have the money to make the appropriate fender/body modifications to run Zero camber.

Seems that Marcus is only providing Constructive Criticism so instead of getting angry debate his argument, prove him wrong, reinforce your argument with factual data or some visuals; otherwise people will lean in his direction which is not good for you because people would question your knowledge about our cars and possibly reconsider buy parts from you. I am one of them especially seeing that you have not responded to my PM or Emails about my questions to your upcoming V6 W208 Headers

Originally Posted by MarcusF

Do you have similar instructions / explanation / diagram for the front?

MarcusForPresident

Sorry to group you in the same post with your Arch Rival

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by Williams707

Do you have similar instructions / explanation / diagram for the front?

Tomorrow night I can post the alignment docs from the WIS. Honestly though, without the cameras, the PC, the pickups, and preloaded software, I don't know how anyone can properly align one of these things. Even with the equipment it looks like a lot of work. I watched the tech make an adjustment on one corner and it looked like everything changed.

I don't know about president. Those guys never drive cars. Although some have flown fighter jets, which probably make sport bikes seem like driving a minivan . . .

Lastly, someone should start a tech thread on headers/exhaust tech. Tubing diameter, collector angles, negative pulses, it could get interesting. If AMS starts the thread I promise not to post. I don't want to be accused of stalking.

[Chappy]

Originally Posted by MarcusF

I'm at 130,000. It's still running good too. I just did the B service and it didn't need any oil since the last service - 10,000 miles ago! Truth be told, I did a "half-a-B" service. I'll change cabin and engine air filters this weekend. I got distracted building some new MB web pages :

Additional photos of the new E-Coupe , which was an add on to another page.

The new AMG SLS Gullwing

That and I'm looking at those Alpine iDA head units.



These are just radios and media managers. They read flash drives, iPhones, and iPods. I'm trying to find out if the flash drive can be replaced with a 500GB USB powered external hard drive. Couple that with the PAC cable so the steering wheel controls still work, and the only other question will be if it will plug into the OE Bose amp, or if new amps, speakers and rewiring is needed. I'm looking at all these projects to take my mind off the fact that you AMG guys are so much faster than us mere mortals.

Impressive!! Keep up the good work!

[Chappy]

Regarding the E-coupe....MB can now charge premium pricing for the coupe, AND stuff in the 6.3 motor....

It probably will not cannibalize the CL, since there is the V12TT option in that line.

RIP the CLK!

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by Williams707

Do you have similar instructions / explanation / diagram for the front?

I took my CD and fed it to my laptop. It decided it didn't care for my new Lenovo ThinkPad. So I fed it to a Dell. This is what it told me. Sounds like I need $125 in software, and $50K or so in hardware. Tomorrow night, I'll give my older software a shot.

[Williams707]

Originally Posted by MarcusF

I took my CD and fed it to my laptop. It decided it didn't care for my new Lenovo ThinkPad. So I fed it to a Dell. This is what it told me. Sounds like I need $125 in software, and $50K or so in hardware. Tomorrow night, I'll give my older software a shot.

How did the older software go?

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by Williams707

How did the older software go?

PM sent

[err0neous]

I just replaced my tie rod assembly and steering damper per the info in this thread. The difference is amazing, I highly recommend it. $204 for the parts from autohausaz and $150 for installation and alignment at the local independent shop.

Part numbers:

2024600505 - Tie rod assembly
1244630432 - Steering damper