Damnit M3 owners are really starting to annoy me...

[AMG///Merc]

Check out the following thread... http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=84762 I used to own an M3 as well. Now I've been on this message board for three years now, and the M3 vs. CLK55 debate has come up a dozen times in the couple of years since I've had my CLK55, and each time I believe that I've done a very good job of arguing that at the very least, the cars are damn near identical in performance, but despite that, I still get these ultra-ignorant, extremely annoying comments like those listed in the linked thread. No wonder why so many people dislike M3 owners. They refuse to believe that any car can even be compared to the M3. You would think that they were comparing an F1 car to a Winnebago It's a shame, as I like most of the members there and it's a good message board, but these guys are just getting so annoying, that I'm not sure that I can post there anymore... Best regards, Matt p.s.) My post is listed under "MattsMthree"

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[AMG&AMG]

first of all, who cares man? second I kill M3's like nothing before.. avtually I feel ashamed to race with M3's now ... not worth my time... and in fact I got really bored killing them in every way you like , more like used every position if you get my point...

I got the monsterous SLK 55 AMG

[robertus]

Hey AMG&AMG,

Have you ever driven a current model M3?, remember there must a reason why they sell more M3's than CLK55's and it's not just the price. The M3 stands in it's own field, there is no reason to try to compare a M3 to CLK55, they two different cars. That's the problem with a lot of CLK55 & M3 owners, your not comparing apples with apples.

Both cars drive differently, feel different, handle different, different torque curves, different power to weight and so on. A M3 is a sports racer and a CLK55 is a GT Sports Tourer.

Now if you want to compare both cars in a straight line from point A to point B then that's fine. otherwise its chalk & cheese.

Robertus

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by robertus

Hey AMG&AMG,

Have you ever driven a current model M3?, remember there must a reason why they sell more M3's than CLK55's and it's not just the price. The M3 stands in it's own field, there is no reason to try to compare a M3 to CLK55, they two different cars. That's the problem with a lot of CLK55 & M3 owners, your not comparing apples with apples.

Both cars drive differently, feel different, handle different, different torque curves, different power to weight and so on. A M3 is a sports racer and a CLK55 is a GT Sports Tourer.

Now if you want to compare both cars in a straight line from point A to point B then that's fine. otherwise its chalk & cheese.

Robertus

[IdriveFast]

actually the two cars are VERY comparable. The difference is not as big as bmw would have you think. Plus, the thing that most M3 owners will not admit to is losing a drag race.

Ever ask an M3 owner if he lost to a C32/C55/CLK55 or a SLK55? Yea they got more power but gearing blah blah blah. And most of them cant even actually explain how the gearing helps. They just know the word gearing like its the buzzword of the week or something.

Anyways, the thread initially started out as racing thread (probably straight line) so the CLK55 is in EVERYWAY a competitor to the M3 in atleast that respect.

Man the guy drives doesnt even drive a coupe!!! He drives a cab. CABS ARE SLOW AS F*CK. Ive beaten an M3 on the freeway with passengers when the M3 guy was alone and all i had was air filters at the time! There is no way an M3 cab would beat a CLK55 especially on the freeway.

and comments from people like iLLG35 just make me sick. They have no idea wtf they are talking about.

Originally Posted by robertus

Hey AMG&AMG,

Have you ever driven a current model M3?, remember there must a reason why they sell more M3's than CLK55's and it's not just the price. The M3 stands in it's own field, there is no reason to try to compare a M3 to CLK55, they two different cars. That's the problem with a lot of CLK55 & M3 owners, your not comparing apples with apples.

Both cars drive differently, feel different, handle different, different torque curves, different power to weight and so on. A M3 is a sports racer and a CLK55 is a GT Sports Tourer.

Now if you want to compare both cars in a straight line from point A to point B then that's fine. otherwise its chalk & cheese.

Robertus

[skytop]

Hi Matt:
Why do you feel you have to convince or educate others to auto facts as you see them? You're only setting yourself up for frustration and aggravation.

As long as you know, and your satisfied with your CLK55, that's what is important and what matters. Enjoy your ride!

[Chappy]

"I mean... ppl who buy CLK55 AMG now are probably rich snobs who think ooo MB AMG, which is at around 120k CDN. We could almost buy a M5 for that price.
They really need to consider the overall before buying a car."

[clkal]

wow....i just took some time and read about 3 pages of posts from that link you provided from the M3 boards. All I have to say is that most M3 owners don't know jack ***** about the CLK55, AMG, or even cars in general.

One guy posted that he saw a CL65 on the way home and passed him up in his M3 w/o a problem.... the only thing I have to say about that is the fact that when someone is driving a 100K+ car, it's NOT in their mind to bother with M3's or ricers.

I mean, most guys were saying that the w208CLK55 has 360HP, a couple of guys even thought that the CLK55 was supercharged.

[Dan Wang]

Originally Posted by clkal

I mean, most guys were saying that the w208CLK55 has 360HP, a couple of guys even thought that the CLK55 was supercharged.

In my case, they are right :p

[SoCalCLK]

M3 is a dime a dozen. In fact the E46 M3 is looking to me these days.

The CLK 55 AMG is more powerful, more refined, it has a V8 engine versus an inline 6, it is more rare and most important it is more comfortable and handsome than that ricer 3-series.

There really is no comparison and you get what you pay for.

[IdriveFast]

Originally Posted by clkal

wow....i just took some time and read about 3 pages of posts from that link you provided from the M3 boards. All I have to say is that most M3 owners don't know jack ***** about the CLK55, AMG, or even cars in general.

One guy posted that he saw a CL65 on the way home and passed him up in his M3 w/o a problem.... the only thing I have to say about that is the fact that when someone is driving a 100K+ car, it's NOT in their mind to bother with M3's or ricers.

I mean, most guys were saying that the w208CLK55 has 360HP, a couple of guys even thought that the CLK55 was supercharged.

dude...i think that guy was kidding

[hellcat]

This was my favorite quote:

AMG it's Mb's answer to M. And M as most of us know has more passion in the making than AMG

[AMG&AMG]

[quote=robertus]Hey AMG&AMG,

drove one too + with mode 6 the traction gets off... I think I have to try the 6 speed ... SMG is too jerky

but z4 handles better in my opinion ... but nothing beats Porsche in handling

[SiLvaC32]

slap on a supercharger... you'd kick any M3's ass. hahah

[AMG///Merc]

Originally Posted by skytop

Hi Matt:
Why do you feel you have to convince or educate others to auto facts as you see them? You're only setting yourself up for frustration and aggravation.

As long as you know, and your satisfied with your CLK55, that's what is important and what matters. Enjoy your ride!

You're right and I really shouldn't have let it get to me the way it did. I was frustrated as I see internet message boards as a place for like minded enthusiasts to share information, and I believe that any info posted should be honest, objective, and informative. If it were just that one thread, it wouldn't have bothered me so much, but after seeing so much smack talk, it just drove me up the wall. I should also have learned by now that I won't change anyone's mind, regardless of whatever I have to say...


Best regards,
Matt

[skytop]

Matt:
Don't count yourself out. You can make a difference.....but only when the other person is aware and receptive.

We are all on very similar journeys, only some people have taken other side paths that appear different to us but we will all ultimately arrive at the same place.

When you are secure in your own beliefs, what other people think won't bother you at all. Anyway, if you only knew how little other people think about you, you wouldn't be concerned about what they think at all!

Enjoy your life, be thankful for your blessings, and enjoy that wild ride you have!

[Improviz]

...and I think your characterization is off the mark. The two cars are actually comparable in performance, though somewhat different in focus:

- The M3 is more focused on emulating the feel of a sports car;

- The CLK55 is more focused on a hyper GT car.

However, having said that, in actual performance, the differences between the two cars in terms of absolute performance are pretty slight. When Car & Driver had a comparo a few years back between the two, the lap times of the cars were within a second of one another--despite the fact that the M had an extra gear, a limited slip diff, and wider rear tires, all of which would tend to help its lap times.

But this is on a track, with both cars being pushed to their limits by professional drivers; on the street, only a fool regularly drives at 10/10, so in practice the differences will be negligible under normal use (sweepers, etc). And the M3's stiffer suspension results in a noticeably stiffer ride, the car is noisier, etc...so it is a question of one's priorities. If one is seriously going to be using the car for a track car in competitive events, the M3 would probably be the better choice, but the tradeoff is a bit less comfort and quiet on the street--'twas ever thus....

In acceleration, the two cars are quite close. The 209s have been tested a few tenths faster than the 208s, but in both the key is launch: the M3's limited slip, wider rear tires, and higher peak-torque rpm (4900) allow for a more agressive launch, and 60' time is the king in a 1/4 mile run. But again: these times were measured with a pro at the wheel; few drivers can consistently achieve the perfect launch with a manual tranny needed to achieve these times, if at all. Further, the CLK55's superior torque makes it (imo) a better daily driver.

And that's off the line: from a roll, in every instance in which I've run one, I've pulled M3s. The AMGs really shine from a roll.

So while the cars definitely differ in focus, their numbers are comparable, and in acceleration the M3s suffer a bit in rolling start races.

BUT one definitely has to concede that in bang-for-the-buck, the M3 is a better package. It underprices the CLK by about $20G, has a similar (slightly less, but similar) horsepower/weight ratio, is comparable-to-better in performance, *and*, unlike the AMGs, has a number of totally unique features which make it more identifiable (fenders, quarter panels, hood, etc.). Differentiation is a good thing in cars of this caliber, imo, and is one area in which Benzes are lacking (although at least now they've got the quad exhausts, though imo there's still room for improvement).

Which is why, imo, they sell more of 'em; the CLK55 is nearly 150% of the price, after all, not an inconsequential difference. I suspect that this goes a long way to explain the CLK55's less-than-stellar resale (along with BMW's absolutely brilliant PR department).

[lauer87]

Improviz, i dont know where you found your information, but the m3 has dramaticlly less torque than a 55.

[Vader13]

my sig tells the true story of AMG>M3

[clkal]

Originally Posted by lauer87

Improviz, i dont know where you found your information, but the m3 has dramaticlly less torque than a 55.

he stated that the CLK55 has superior torque compared to the M3....which I believe in English, Chinese, Spanish and whatever other language you want to translate it into, means that CLK55 = MORE TORQUE than M3.

[Improviz]

Originally Posted by clkal

he stated that the CLK55 has superior torque compared to the M3....which I believe in English, Chinese, Spanish and whatever other language you want to translate it into, means that CLK55 = MORE TORQUE than M3.

I think he took "higher torque peak", by which I meant the rpm at which the M3 develops its max torque is higher, to mean "higher peak torque". I edited it to make it a bit more clear....

[clkal]

Originally Posted by Improviz

I think he took "higher torque peak", by which I meant the rpm at which the M3 develops its max torque is higher, to mean "higher peak torque". I edited it to make it a bit more clear....

OH...my bad...guess he didn't see the part where you stated the the superior torque makes the CLK55 your daily driver.

[SoCalCLK]

Well said, Improviz. For my money, regardless of price, I always prefer the CLK 55 AMG to the BMW M3.

Price is a relative factor, but the power, class, feel and looks of a car are permanent once the money has been spent. Think about it, everyday the US Dollar fluctuates. I remember going to Europe in Summer 2002, when the Euro was .80 to the Dollar. These days the reverse is true, but the Gucci Briefcase I bought is still the same condition that I bought it in!

[cntlaw]

M3 and CLK55 are of different class.
Locally here,
M3 E46 priced 780K~=US$100K
CLK55 W209 priced 110K~=US$141K

[robertus]

Here you go fella's,

Just sold my M3 to a MB C owner, that throws a apple in the kart. Like I said in my earlier post, two different type of cars. The only way to stop the crap is to have owned or own both cars and as far as the SMG gearbox, well the M3 may need a V8 which is coming but the CLK needs SMG and I don't see that on the horizon.

If you want to drive a true sports racer then SMG is the gearbox not a defacto button arrangement or are you saying that Ferrari & Lambo etc are toys. The CLK55 AMG is a fine car but are marketed differently to different people. Calling a M3 a Ricer, I think you people have been eating to many Big Macs and watching Starsky & Hutch to much.

And as far as Ricers, Iv'e seen a few 4 cylinders leave a M3 & a CLK in their dust. Just because you have a Star on your bonnets dosen't mean that you are!

Robertus.
Owner of many a fine car!