Evotech ECU Tune Results for W208 CLK55

[Zal]

To truely see the effects of an ECU tune for the CLK55AMG, I did a before and after dyno test. The ECU tune was done by a fellow board member AdamG at EuroElites, who came well recommended on the board. Between the tests the only change on the car was the ECU tune and about 20 miles driven after the tune (to the dyno facility after a bit of a warm up). Both dyno tests were done on the same machine by the same technician at the same time (9:30AM) though a month apart hence a 10deg difference in ambient temperature. I have attached the before and after dyno results and a table of the weather conditions. The net result is a loss in Hp - 288.6 to 281.1 and Torque - 300Ftlbs to 284Ftlbs. So the question for the knowledgeable folks on the board - would a 10deg temperature difference result in a loss of 10+Hp (assuming no gain from the tune)? Is this an acceptable result for an ECU tune?

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[e1000]

I don't want to alarm you but FYI

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...ght=euroelites

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by Zal

To truely see the effects of an ECU tune for the CLK55AMG, I did a before and after dyno test. The ECU tune was done by a fellow board member AdamG at EuroElites, who came well recommended on the board.

Between the tests the only change on the car was the ECU tune and about 20 miles driven after the tune (to the dyno facility after a bit of a warm up). Both dyno tests were done on the same machine by the same technician at the same time (9:30AM) though a month apart hence a 10deg difference in ambient temperature.

I have attached the before and after dyno results and a table of the weather conditions.

The net result is a loss in Hp - 288.6 to 281.1 and Torque - 300Ftlbs to 284Ftlbs.

So the question for the knowledgeable folks on the board - would a 10deg temperature difference result in a loss of 10+Hp (assuming no gain from the tune)?

Is this an acceptable result for an ECU tune?

Yes 10 degrees can make a difference on these cars.

By the way were you there when they reprogrammed and dyno tuned the car. I'm not talking about a SW flash either? The HP loss is negligable but I hope something was done.

However with the SW tune I would have thought I'd see a marked improvement.
Did you feel a difference when you drove the car?

[Zal]

Originally Posted by ProjectC55

Yes 10 degrees can make a difference on these cars.

By the way were you there when they reprogrammed and dyno tuned the car. I'm not talking about a SW flash either? The HP loss is negligable but I hope something was done.

However with the SW tune I would have thought I'd see a marked improvement.
Did you feel a difference when you drove the car?

No I was not there when the ECU was reprogrammed. This was a case where I mailed Adam the ECU. Yes I was present for the dyno testing. I was expecting a marked improvement as well, but the experience has not been radical. I do feel a better response at lower speeds, but not very significantly different to recommend dropping almost a grand for.

[sprins]

Interesting to know what Adam @ EuroElites has to say about this. Did you talk to him yet?

This doesn't sound right for a tune, even with a 10º difference.

The "better response" can be the reprogrammed throttle response you feel.

[ChicagoX]

A 10 degree F difference would result in about a 1% difference in power.

You've lost ~5%, according to the torque plot.

[juicee63]

The ECU will not adapt in 20 miles. You need to drive much more before doing a dyno. At least 150 miles.

20 miles just is not enough time in the car.

Also your Dyno numbers should be SAE corrected so weather is not a factor

[e1000]

I don't know. If you really have to put that many miles on the car then how do they do dyno tunes back to back?

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by juicee63

The ECU will not adapt in 20 miles. You need to drive much more before doing a dyno. At least 150 miles.

20 miles just is not enough time in the car.

Also your Dyno numbers should be SAE corrected so weather is not a factor

I did'nt have to do that with my car. I noticed it right away like night and day. It got even better when I added mods to the car. Immediately I noticed the car ws very strong in the lower and midrange rpm's. My car has a custom Superchips modded ECU.

Adam may have to have the guy tinker with the SW a little if he does not notice a nice difference after 20 miles.
However that still was not the case with my car.

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by ChicagoX

A 10 degree F difference would result in about a 1% difference in power.

You've lost ~5%, according to the torque plot.

In NYC when it's 70 degrees during the day and 60 degrees at night same humidity late spring early fall, I notice a difference especially when I'm going to the track. The 10 degrees lower temp and equal humidity, makes my car feel stronger. Whether I'm gaining 10 hp I cannot say but the car feels stronger when the temp goes from 70 to 60 degrees.

When dynoing the car I would figure 10 degrees should make some difference.

[juicee63]

Originally Posted by ProjectC55

I did'nt have to do that with my car. I noticed it right away like night and day. It got even better when I added mods to the car. Immediately I noticed the car ws very strong in the lower and midrange rpm's. My car has a custom Superchips modded ECU.

Adam may have to have the guy tinker with the SW a little if he does not notice a nice difference after 20 miles.
However that still was not the case with my car.

so you did a before and after dyno after 20 miles and achieved a significant hp gain?

[Zal]

Originally Posted by sprins

Interesting to know what Adam @ EuroElites has to say about this. Did you talk to him yet?

This doesn't sound right for a tune, even with a 10º difference.

The "better response" can be the reprogrammed throttle response you feel.

i have been in touch with adam and sent him the info prior to posting, his initial reaction was it may be the temp difference. He has been A+ in the interaction so far and very responsive etc. I expect i will hear from him soon on possible next steps.

[BiTurboAmg]

so euro elites is still in business?

[Zal]

Originally Posted by juicee63

The ECU will not adapt in 20 miles. You need to drive much more before doing a dyno. At least 150 miles.

20 miles just is not enough time in the car.

Also your Dyno numbers should be SAE corrected so weather is not a factor

Admittedly I am not an expert here so need someone to explain in simple terms, how driving it more will result inthe ecu adapting and generating more hp and torque at the wheels. I understood "adaptive" to mean the shift points adjusting etc. to accomodate personal driving styles, but peak hp and torque would change too?

Would definitely appreciate the explanation, and if true is it possible to develop a possible gain of 8 - 10 hp (back to pre ecu tune peak) just by driving it hard? Does not seem intuitive..

[Addicted2Speed]

I am amazed that people still continue to do business with Evotech after like 10 members on this forum had serious problems with their tune

Why risk your car when there are several tuners available with much better reputation, much larger in size, and who have been in business for far longer than Evotech

[juicee63]

Originally Posted by Zal

Admittedly I am not an expert here so need someone to explain in simple terms, how driving it more will result inthe ecu adapting and generating more hp and torque at the wheels. I understood "adaptive" to mean the shift points adjusting etc. to accomodate personal driving styles, but peak hp and torque would change too?

Would definitely appreciate the explanation, and if true is it possible to develop a possible gain of 8 - 10 hp (back to pre ecu tune peak) just by driving it hard? Does not seem intuitive..

Peak hp and torque change daily.

It is definately weather dependant.

In my opinion I believe your dyno results would be identical had the temp on the 2nd dyno been 61-62 degrees.


I would call the dyno shop and have them do SAE corrected #s on both days so you can do a more accurate comparison.

While the new map is loaded it may simply be a matter of teaching the car to run utilizing the new parameter's. And yes you may need to have the ECU redone. Here is an example of why dyno #s are not the entire story.

I went to a dyno day with a buddy, his CLS hit 440, mine hit 408, we lined up outside the shop at a stoplight, light turns green we go full throttle guess what? My car was faster...go figure

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by Addicted2Speed

I am amazed that people still continue to do business with Evotech after like 10 members on this forum had serious problems with their tune

Why risk your car when there are several tuners available with much better reputation, much larger in size, and who have been in business for far longer than Evotech

who are these 10 members????

[MarcusF]

Assuming that the problem doesn’t reside with the dyno. BTW, what type of dyno? Inertia or load, or a Mustang that does both? If it is a Mustang unit that does both, they tested it the same way both times, right? But assuming it’s not the dyno. We’re assuming the torque meter calibration didn’t conveniently get out of whack over the past month, and the drum bearings didn’t dry up overnight, so the problem must be elsewhere. They didn’t strap the car down so tight that the tires looked flat, did they? You haven’t noticed an odd squeal from the rear (like a stuck brake caliper), have you? You didn’t spend the last month driving through sand storms and clogging up the air filter, right?

Now lets suppose the dyno shop did everything right and the car was in just as good a running shape as a month ago; what exactly was changed with the ECU upgrade? You've got an NA car, so it's either fuel or ignition. In either case, post the AF graph from both dyno runs.

[Addicted2Speed]

Originally Posted by ROCKETW19

who are these 10 members????

Well here are the people who seem to have a bad experience with Evotech on this forum:

1. BallzyS55
2. BallzyS55's cousin
3. Jwanee84
4. SleeperX
5. MIG-E55Rocket
6. BiTurboAmg
7. Zal

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by Addicted2Speed

Well here are the people who seem to have a bad experience with Evotech on this forum:

1. BallzyS55
2. BallzyS55's cousin
3. Jwanee84
4. SleeperX
5. MIG-E55Rocket
6. BiTurboAmg
7. Zal

7 is pretty damm close to 10 so I will take back the BS. but did these 7 guys have serious issues with their tune? I know sleeper and MIG were doin crazy stuff to their cars But I wount say its anyones fault cuzz I have no clue. also ballz and cousin didnt have a problem with the tune I think it was a bumper and poor customer relations.
Anyways I dont want to start this over I shouldnt have quoted you and stired this up! My badd.

[Addicted2Speed]

Originally Posted by ROCKETW19

7 is pretty damm close to 10 so I will take back the BS. but did these 7 guys have serious issues with their tune? I know sleeper and MIG were doin crazy stuff to their cars But I wount say its anyones fault cuzz I have no clue. also ballz and cousin didnt have a problem with the tune I think it was a bumper and poor customer relations.
Anyways I dont want to start this over I shouldnt have quoted you and stired this up! My badd.

Hey all I'm saying is that there is a lot of controversy surrounding Evotech. Its a much safer bet to go with a well-known global tuner like Renntech or Kleemann.

[c32used]

Honestly the best bet is stay in touch with Adam and if no resolution then go on here. I have Evotech tune and I did increase hp/tq and I felt it asap in my driving my car after the ECU was re-installed. I did in the past dynos with dirty K&N filters on like a 10 degree warmer day and had like 286 hp and a week later with new Green filters on a colder day I had 299 hp/290 tq...so weather could be a big factor cause I doubt dirty K&N filters will yeild like 15 hp less then fresh new Green filters. Threads like these kill businesses and both Ballzy and his Cousin complained of other damages not the ECU as I recall at the moment. Nothing wrong with getting info from us but at the same time give Eurolites time to come-up with a resolution before posting anything rather negative or positive. Its ok to feel alarmed people but lets be careful of how we put a business down. In time all will either be right or still wrong and then I say let us know. Cause the power of many gets places.

[c32used]

Originally Posted by Addicted2Speed

Hey all I'm saying is that there is a lot of controversy surrounding Evotech. Its a much safer bet to go with a well-known global tuner like Renntech or Kleemann.

Safer in your opinion at a higher cost to...Once my car has issues from his ECU tune I will let you and the forum know.

(edited 3-26-08 @ 1:31pm)ADDICTED2SPEED please don't take things I say personal I felt last night that I needed to defend that I am issueless with my Evotech Tune thats all.

[Chappy]

Zal,

Are you still running stock air filters? Bummer on the disappointing results.

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by juicee63

so you did a before and after dyno after 20 miles and achieved a significant hp gain?

Nope. You were able to feel it right away. PLUS the mother board in my ECU has been socketed for me to just plug and play the different chips I have.
Yes you could feel a difference immediately and I will look and post all my dyno sheets. I did'nt have to drive my car some umteen miles to notice anything. You will see when ipost my dynos though that it was not my immagination

The same thing when I upgraded the exh on my car,immeditately you feel and notice the difference.