** Evosport CLK63 Black Series Project **

[jrcart]

Brad, Wow, I'm impressed. It turned out even better than I was expecting. I wanted a factory, OEM look, and you guys delivered. Jim

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[LZH]

Originally Posted by jrcart

Brad,

Wow, I'm impressed. It turned out even better than I was expecting. I wanted a factory, OEM look, and you guys delivered.

Jim

+1 - spont on. The detail on that stitching is something to be proud of.

[LZH]

Originally Posted by Jim Brady

Brad,
I have several questions on the chrome moly roll bar. What is the diameter and wall thickness on the tubing? Secondly, are the mounting points to the floor, frame rails or seat belt pick up points.
Although my car will see light track use, some clubs scrutinize safety equipment with very little flexibility and I don't want to have them drill a leather wrapped bar.

Looks like it's min 2.250 x .120 wall thickness. That's standard size for CM tubing widely used in the motorsports industry. I'm interested to know as well where the mounting points are.

[JDB]

Brad,

Your images really show off the quality and attention to detail that you have put into your modifications. Very impressive!

It'll be interesting to learn how all of this work has improved the perfromance of the car.

JDB

[jrcart]

Do you want to know what I think would be cool, and the best way to measure any perfomance gains? A head-to-head comparison. Dyno sheets will only tell part of the story. We need to get this thing on the track with a stock BS and see what it can do. Laptimes, 0-60, 100-0 braking, skid pad, 1/4 mile. I know it's a long shot, but are any of you interested in supplying a stocker? The only guy in my area that I know of with a BS has it parked with 21 miles on it, locked up with collection of other exotic automobiles. He seems to think it is going to have some significant value someday, so I know his will never see a track.

[Schiznick]

What did the car dyno as the baseline?

[LZH]

Brad/Simon - what's the latest with this project ??

[ThisFlyGuy]

any updated pics? wheels on?

[Simon @ evosport]

Guys- the car is getting the aero components worked on. No pics to show you right now. Stay tuned...

[JamE55]

Originally Posted by otoupalik

To get this back on track, I thought some eye candy would be good!

PRE-MOD TESTING
Here is the car on the pre-mod dyno:

What were the results of the post dyno?

[Jim Brady]

Lotta eye candy getting me excited EVO, where's the beef?

[nrgy]

Yeah, I'm very anxious to hear the results as well. While I don't have a CLK BS, I'm hoping the headers and software are compatible with the C63. Everything in these pics look very well made.

[spr]

Nice rollbar especially the wrap. Looks very much like the tequipment bolt in Porsche one however that's aluminum- you might try that it weighed NOTHING! Also are there seat belt points to bolt it in? You might do it just like they do making it a true bolt in, although you have to bend them a little for fit usually to line up the holes-

It would drop the weight by 2/3.

[Addicted2Speed]

What you guys should do is install some carbon ceramic brakes

[jrcart]

This is in regards to the person that comented on doing the roll bar in aluminum rather than steel, similar to a Porsche Tequipment bar.

I'm no structural engineer, but wouldn't a roll bar made out of aluminum have to be at least 40% larger in diameter, depending an gauge/wall thickness, to offer the same tensile strength as chromoly steel? If so wouldn't that make it large and obstrusive in the cockpit, especially in a car with a full cage? How much weight savings are we talking about, 10%, 50%??? I have been around quite a few heavily modded street cars and race cars and have not seen many (any in my case) aluminum roll bars, then again, I really have not paid that much attention. If aluminum is indeed a viable material why is it not being used more for cages? Or is it??? I am talking about real cages, designed for safety, not just some bolt in piece of jewelry here.

Can anyone inform me/us on this topic?

Thanks

[LZH]

I have never seen an aluminium cage. And I know it is not a cage material that is approved by the FIA, or any other sanctioning body for that matter. The most common materials used are carbon steel and chromoly. The latter of the two being the strongest and lightest. The major difference, however, is the way the tubing is actually made. The 3 most common ways are:
CDS = Cold Drawn, Seamless

ERW = Electron Resistance Welded

DOM = Drawn Over Mandrel

Some links for your reading pleasure

http://www.keytosteel.com/default.as...kArticle&NM=62

http://www.keytosteel.com/default.aspx?ID=Articles

[jrcart]

LZH...Thanks for your input, I didn't think aluminum was a viable material for cages. What is SPR refering to when he mentioned the Porsche Tequipment roll bar? Does he have his wires crossed? Is it indeed made of aluminum? Is this just more of an "appearence piece" he his refering to? I always though Tequipment was just appearence stuff, or is it designed just as a structural tie or brace to minimize body roll (think strut tower brace) with no crash or impact safety? I just Googled it and did not find any info on it. Just curious why someone would put a non-approved or non-functional roll bar/cage in a vehicle, especially in a Porsche. I could understand some kid putting one in a Civic or something, but a Porsche?

[EUROTEK//AMG]

!!! amazing job with the upgrades!!!

[jrcart]

Originally Posted by spr

Nice rollbar especially the wrap. Looks very much like the tequipment bolt in Porsche one however that's aluminum- you might try that it weighed NOTHING! Also are there seat belt points to bolt it in? You might do it just like they do making it a true bolt in, although you have to bend them a little for fit usually to line up the holes-

It would drop the weight by 2/3.

Even if this roll bar could be constructed out of aluminum, I highly doubt it would weigh 2/3's less than the chromoly unit. The above roll bar weighs in at 42 pounds including the leather wrap and padding according to the guys at Evosport who designed and built it. Lets just say the un-padded steel bar by itself weighs 40 pounds (-2 pounds for leather and padding), that means you are saying an aluminum version would weigh about 13.4 pounds....no way! If this were the case some race team with very deep pockets would have figured out a way to do this by now.

[group5]

Originally Posted by jrcart

This is in regards to the person that comented on doing the roll bar in aluminum rather than steel, similar to a Porsche Tequipment bar.

I'm no structural engineer, but wouldn't a roll bar made out of aluminum have to be at least 40% larger in diameter, depending an gauge/wall thickness, to offer the same tensile strength as chromoly steel? If so wouldn't that make it large and obstrusive in the cockpit, especially in a car with a full cage? How much weight savings are we talking about, 10%, 50%??? I have been around quite a few heavily modded street cars and race cars and have not seen many (any in my case) aluminum roll bars, then again, I really have not paid that much attention. If aluminum is indeed a viable material why is it not being used more for cages? Or is it??? I am talking about real cages, designed for safety, not just some bolt in piece of jewelry here.



Can anyone inform me/us on this topic?

Thanks

The Renault Maxi Group B (killer bee) car or it might have been the Tour de Course car had an aluminum cage. I made an exact copy for a customer out of 1 5/8" by 1/8" wall 6061T6. Obviously it is a lighter car, but I had the actual factory cage to duplicate.

[BMWEATR]

Originally Posted by jrcart

hmmmm, I'm going to stick to my guns on this one. I never said the BS is light, I just stated that it does not show it weight or handle like a "heavy car". I have driven, as well as own/owned some cars that "feel heavy". I really don't care how much driving or racing experience you have. THE LAST TIME I CHECKED ALL THAT REALLY MATTERS ON A RACE COURSE IS LAP TIMES! So everything else you said is irrelevant. Here's a question for you Speed Racer. Which of the following vehicles would you rather race in? One that runs consitant 2:25's at Road America or one that is running consistantly slower 2:27's? Well????? Well, the 2:25's are what I run in my 3900 plus pound Lingenfelter 4 DOOR CTS-V and the 2:27's are what I run in my 3100 pound Dinan tuned M3. DUDE, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE MAGAZINES AND CHAT ROOMS AND GET IN THE REAL WORLD! I don't care if you had Micheal Schumacher himself behind the wheel of your car, a true enthusiest or racer is going to favor the faster vehicle.

As far as your credentials go, I'm not impressed. Show me a profesional license and I might be impressed. As for the name dropping, I can flip open my cell phone and give you the personal phone numbers of some "real" big name drivers. I have raced (not tracked days, actually raced) at every major circuit in North America, Daytona, Laguna, Road America, Mid Ohio, Brainerd, Heartland Park, PIR, LVMS, Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, etc., etc., etc. I have also lapped the road course at Daytona in multiple Trans Am cars and SCCA sports cars, driven Nascar Cup cars on ovals and road courses, spent an afternoon in a Corvette C5R, and lapped the Chicago Speedway (not Chicagoland) in a 1997 Dale Coyne Racing Indy/CART (whatever the hell it was called then) car. I still hold an acctive pro liscence for the AMA Superbike series, which I competed in for 2.5 seasons. As an ametuer mototcycle racer in 1997 I shattered and still hold the CCS record for most points and most wins in all 4 classes at the national level as well as the 4 individual US regions I competed in.

I'll be out in Sunny California to do a shakedown run of my BS the last week of February, let me know if you want to join me for an afternoon at The Streets. Try to bring a streetable GT3 if you know anyone that has one. I would be interested to put this debate to rest with a real world, head to head race or we can just pull out the stop watches. I am not affraid to put my money where my mouth is. If that does not work I will be running the road course at LVMS about a week later, after the Nascar teams pull out of the infield. My friend will be out there with his GT3 and Carrera GT.

I'll put my money on the BS. I have gone up against a few GT3's during basic track days stock to stock I was easily handing them there A$$'s. They were equal when they came up to speed on the straights but i would eat them up going in the corners(probrably driver experience there) and pull the hell out of them comming off the corners(in a tuna boat E55) I have video and in cockpit ***** talking to prove it. you will need a GT2 to have a chance at a BS.

jrcart, Sweeeeet project way to have some balls and go for it.!!! keep us posted!

[Simon @ evosport]

Here are pics of the completed roll-bar installed in the car...

[BMWEATR]

[ET550]

Originally Posted by Simon @ evosport

Here are pics of the completed roll-bar installed in the car...

How much labor/difficulty is involved in the installation process?

[573WHPCLS]

That looks like it's going to be an amazing car. I am brand new to this forum today, I did not even know it existed. I just took delivery of my Black Series last month. I am looking to try to get some more HP out of her. I have been reading that none of the 63 motors are easy to squeeze much HP out of. I have a heavily modded CLS 55, which is tame enough for everyday driving but it's a rocket when I want it to be. Has anyone done anything that has given them any increases in HP or torque to any 63 motor? What kind of dyno numbers have you seen from this Black Series. Can you break down the HP increases for me. How much did the headers add, how much did the pulleys add, how much for the ECU, etc. What kind of mufflers did you run on this car? How much for the cage? Is that something you can ship me and I install myself or do I have to ship the car to California? I was ready to ship my car to Renntech in Florida but this car caught my eye. Any info ASAP would be appreciated

Finally, I am not very familar with evosport. What little I do know about them is that I thought they were BMW tuners. Do they engineer and manufacture there own stuff, or do they just resell Kleeman, Brabus and Renn stuff?