Track brakes

[DFW01E55]

Has anyone used anything other than the OEM's that were good?
I think it was Jim Brady (apologies if I'm wrong) who panned the Porterfields.

Any other experience out there?

Is the caliper on the Black the same as any other model?

For those of you in Texas or nearby, there's a track event at Motorsport Ranch outside of Ft Worth:
Dec 6 & 7

Thanks in advance.

[LZH]

I've used mine quite a bit on track for over 100 miles and had no fade whatsoever and I was pushing it hard.

[jrcart]

Originally Posted by DFW01E55

Has anyone used anything other than the OEM's that were good?
I think it was Jim Brady (apologies if I'm wrong) who panned the Porterfields.

Any other experience out there?

Is the caliper on the Black the same as any other model?

For those of you in Texas or nearby, there's a track event at Motorsport Ranch outside of Ft Worth:
Dec 6 & 7

Thanks in advance.

I am most likely going to be at the TMR event. I have a division of my company in Dallas and a condo in Addison and plan on spending a lot of the win ter months down there.

[DFW01E55]

Originally Posted by jrcart

I am most likely going to be at the TMR event. I have a division of my company in Dallas and a condo in Addison and plan on spending a lot of the win ter months down there.

Well good, at least someone will make a good impression with the Black Series. I'll probably end up in the second group anyway. They're running the 1.7 mile track but may be able to switch to the 3.1 if enough people register.

Edit: Thanks LZH, since it's a 2 day event I thought it might be interesting to try something else for comparison.

[AMG Dictator]

Originally Posted by jrcart

I am most likely going to be at the TMR event. I have a division of my company in Dallas and a condo in Addison and plan on spending a lot of the win ter months down there.

Jim, what has your experience been with brakes on your car? Have you had to replace the rotors or pads yet?

How many track days are you getting out of a set of tires?

The CLK seems to be quite hard on brakes, not a suprise with as heavy as it is.

Others?

[Jim Brady]

Originally Posted by DFW01E55

Has anyone used anything other than the OEM's that were good?
I think it was Jim Brady (apologies if I'm wrong) who panned the Porterfields.

Any other experience out there?

Is the caliper on the Black the same as any other model?

For those of you in Texas or nearby, there's a track event at Motorsport Ranch outside of Ft Worth:
Dec 6 & 7

Thanks in advance.

Ya, its was me. I found the stock pads to have better bite but too much heat. I noticed that I had cracks in the stock
pads after three track days so I replaced them with the Porterfields. I've run the Porterfields for two events. I think I have one more day and then I'll switch back to the stock pads but I'm going to go to some brake cooling.
Jimmy

[SMP]

Originally Posted by DFW01E55

Has anyone used anything other than the OEM's that were good?
I think it was Jim Brady (apologies if I'm wrong) who panned the Porterfields.

Any other experience out there?

Is the caliper on the Black the same as any other model?

For those of you in Texas or nearby, there's a track event at Motorsport Ranch outside of Ft Worth:
Dec 6 & 7

Thanks in advance.

You shouldn't have any problems on the track with the OEM brake pads. They are a little on the soft side, but I didn't experience any noticeable brake fade. However, I was running on a longer track where the brakes have sufficient time to cool. If you run a shorter track, which is a bit harder on the brakes, I'd like to hear your feedback.

[jrcart]

Originally Posted by AMG Dictator

Jim, what has your experience been with brakes on your car? Have you had to replace the rotors or pads yet?

How many track days are you getting out of a set of tires?

The CLK seems to be quite hard on brakes, not a suprise with as heavy as it is.

Others?

40 laps at Road America and I toasted 4 pads, warped the front rotors and spent a brand new set of Corsas, those 165 miles were probably equivilent to 10,000 highway miles. At some shorter, slower and less brake intense tracks I have managed to salvage the brakes but the Corsas don't last. I have been running stock pads and rotors without too many complaints, fade has been minimal. Keep in mind I added steel brake lines which I assume are helping me in the fade department.

[LZH]

Originally Posted by jrcart

40 laps at Road America and I toasted 4 pads, warped the front rotors and spent a brand new set of Corsas, those 165 miles were probably equivilent to 10,000 highway miles. At some shorter, slower and less brake intense tracks I have managed to salvage the brakes but the Corsas don't last. I have been running stock pads and rotors without too many complaints, fade has been minimal. Keep in mind I added steel brake lines which I assume are helping me in the fade department.

Jim - Have you thought about using the SLR's ceramic brake's ? I'm sure a bit of midification would be necessary and I have no idea if they would work with the stock calipers but it might be a good idea for additional braking and even more weight savings in the all important unsprung weight area. This would be a sweet addition to your car man...

Here is a guy that put them on his E36 M3.

http://www.dtmpower.co.za/forums/showthread.php?t=2238

[jl88]

I'm still a believer that ceramic brakes are not worth the cost. You're looking at a $20k to $40k mod, depending on the manufacturer.

Even for a casual/semi-casual track guy, you're better off replacing the pads/rotors and changing the brake fluid after every event.

One of the main reasons why a lot of the high end car manufacturers moved over to ceramic brakes is the huge profit margin they can charge for the service & parts. Cars require less maintenance nowadays (specifically the F430 and the 997 turbo) and the dealers have to find some new ways to generate revenue. Selling ceramic brakes to the normal person is one good way to do that.

[AMG Dictator]

Originally Posted by jrcart

40 laps at Road America and I toasted 4 pads, warped the front rotors and spent a brand new set of Corsas, those 165 miles were probably equivilent to 10,000 highway miles. At some shorter, slower and less brake intense tracks I have managed to salvage the brakes but the Corsas don't last. I have been running stock pads and rotors without too many complaints, fade has been minimal. Keep in mind I added steel brake lines which I assume are helping me in the fade department.

In a strange way, I am glad to hear that.

I am just able to get two days out of a set of tires if I take it easy a bit and depending on the track.

For brakes I am getting 2 track days at best on pads and rotors again depending on the track type. Not only are they warped but I had them check and they are below tolerance in the front.....

Kind of crazy running through pads and rotors at the same rate but I just chalk it up to one of the issues with big weight on the front axle.

All stock pads and rotors for me.

[Jim Brady]

[quote=jrcart;3176682]40 laps at Road America and I toasted 4 pads, warped the front rotors and spent a brand new set of Corsas,


And beating Porsche.s...priceless.

Jimmy

[alexander stemer]

My track experience was Gingerman and Autobahn. Both are relatively short courses, with lots of braking and short straights (the longest at Gingerman is shorter than the shortest at Road America).
My style is "lighter but longer" braking, as opposed to "Wait til the last moment and slam them on"
I did note some on-track heating with slight fade, but no problems with rotors or pads. I drive with the traction controls off, and that is a likely factor. With it on, the car applies the brakes in many more places than I would, and it makes the corner exit choppy.
I do use a cool down lap, and use very little brake entering the pits. Never leave my foot on the pedal when the car is stopped- it just goes into "park".
I find the stock settings for everything to be a good compromise. Lighter braking keeps the nose down a long time and makes turn-in great. Tail comes out nicely on the way out. Is everybody else "traction off" or "traction on"?? AS

[jrcart]

Originally Posted by alexander stemer

My track experience was Gingerman and Autobahn. Both are relatively short courses, with lots of braking and short straights (the longest at Gingerman is shorter than the shortest at Road America).
My style is "lighter but longer" braking, as opposed to "Wait til the last moment and slam them on"
I did note some on-track heating with slight fade, but no problems with rotors or pads. I drive with the traction controls off, and that is a likely factor. With it on, the car applies the brakes in many more places than I would, and it makes the corner exit choppy.
I do use a cool down lap, and use very little brake entering the pits. Never leave my foot on the pedal when the car is stopped- it just goes into "park".
I find the stock settings for everything to be a good compromise. Lighter braking keeps the nose down a long time and makes turn-in great. Tail comes out nicely on the way out. Is everybody else "traction off" or "traction on"?? AS

Funny you ask about the traction control becuase Jim Brady and I had some PM discussing that subject earlier today.

I run only with the traction control off, at Road America traction control "on" cost you about 2 seconds a lap, it's always kicking in causing you to lose drive, momentum, concentration and the ability to steer the car with the throttle which is the only way to make a BS go really fast is some turns. Furthermore, as I stated to Jim I feel this car needs to be driven deep into the turns with shorter, yet harder braking zones vs the smoother (but text book correct method) you mention. The BS like to be trail braked. My method is harder on the equipment, brakes and tires, but results are eveident on the stopwatch. Trust me, I'm a motorcycle racer and for the most part usually have a smooth and precise tecnique, but borderline Bonzai seems to work better in the BS

[AMG Dictator]

I would agree with the hot in approach. I run with TC off as well. The car seems to respond much better with late and trail braking for me. The car does like smooth but it can be thrown around a bit more than I expected.

I am also really good about cool down laps ect.....

[LZH]

Traction control off for me as well. As Jrcart said, the TC interferes with many things you would only do on the track, ie rotating the car with throttle/brake and trail braking etc...The TC is inherently a precautionary device that is there to save your ass....on the track it works overtime and slows you down quite a bit as previously mentioned. But again, if you are a novice, it's best to build speed and learn with it on. Going out "Bonzi" style with little experience would be a bead deal for you, your car and those on the track with you.

[DFW01E55]

Is there a dyno mode that defeats all of the nanny systems?

[LZH]

Yes - All 63's have the same ability to be put in DYNO mode turning ESP, ABS, ect off. Can't remember the method. Have it written down somewhere and will post when I find it.

[SMP]

On the track I turn TC off. The BS has plenty of mechanical grip and the LSD helps with the traction coming out of turns, as long as you roll smoothly into the throttle. I tend to brake late, ease off the brakes and start turning in. That takes care of the understeer. Only problem I have noticed is the transmission doesn't react as fast as I would like it to on the exit. It stays in the higher gear too long and only down shifts when you take some load off the outside wheels.

[AMG Dictator]

Originally Posted by DFW01E55

Is there a dyno mode that defeats all of the nanny systems?

I don't think dyno mode is a good solution on the track as you also give up ABS.

I don't find any issues at all in running with the ESP in the off mode. It does flicker on ocasion but I don't notice any additional intrusion.

My understanding is that it comes back on when you have the brakes on but I don't seem to notice it on trail braking so.....

[jrcart]

Originally Posted by SMP

On the track I turn TC off. The BS has plenty of mechanical grip and the LSD helps with the traction coming out of turns, as long as you roll smoothly into the throttle. I tend to brake late, ease off the brakes and start turning in. That takes care of the understeer. Only problem I have noticed is the transmission doesn't react as fast as I would like it to on the exit. It stays in the higher gear too long and only down shifts when you take some load off the outside wheels.

The MHP TCU tune has corrected this flaw, when in M mode the car will now go into whatever gear you want as soon as you want it there. No more lag between the time you push the pull the paddle and the time the computer actually switches the gear, it happens almost imediatly. Also corrected is the hesitation that occurs when short shifting, my car used to almost second guess me in situations where I would short shift, now the car just does what I want it to do. Shift hesitation is at a minimum now.

[DFW01E55]

Originally Posted by jrcart

The MHP TCU tune has corrected this flaw, ...

How about rev matching? Did the ecu or tcu software implement that change?

[fickleone]

Originally Posted by jrcart

The MHP TCU tune has corrected this flaw, .

Is this a Dealer update?

[DFW01E55]

Originally Posted by fickleone

Is this a Dealer update?

MHP is a new tuner to MB and board sponsor. See the 211 board for details.

[MRAMG1]

Gentlemen:

Not sure if they make it for your toys, but I have tracked a C32 and a E55 and FRIED both of their stock brakes, aka fade and warped rotors.

I Switched BOTH cars over to EBC Redstuff "Occansional track use formula" and had NO brake fade at all during a 30 minute session. Note, the rotors actually survived as well. The stock pads, on these cars, are JUNK for track use. They absorbed WAY too much heat and fade easily, if you ddrive like you stole it.

EBC also makes a yellow stuff aka TRACK pad, made out of Kevlar, but it WILL require heat to work. Namely your first couple of stops are going to required a MUCH harder brake push. Note to self DO NOT allow wifey to drive on Yellow stuff.

Good luck, and let me know if you guys ever make it to Beaverun, Watkins Glen, or Mid Ohio as I will gladly meet up with you.

See yeah

PS: A SL63 and SL65 were both running on my last event with NO brake issues, however they were NOT pushing their cars hard at all.

[AMG Dictator]

Originally Posted by MRAMG1

Gentlemen:

Not sure if they make it for your toys, but I have tracked a C32 and a E55 and FRIED both of their stock brakes, aka fade and warped rotors.

I Switched BOTH cars over to EBC Redstuff "Occansional track use formula" and had NO brake fade at all during a 30 minute session. Note, the rotors actually survived as well. The stock pads, on these cars, are JUNK for track use. They absorbed WAY too much heat and fade easily, if you ddrive like you stole it.

EBC also makes a yellow stuff aka TRACK pad, made out of Kevlar, but it WILL require heat to work. Namely your first couple of stops are going to required a MUCH harder brake push. Note to self DO NOT allow wifey to drive on Yellow stuff.

Good luck, and let me know if you guys ever make it to Beaverun, Watkins Glen, or Mid Ohio as I will gladly meet up with you.

See yeah

PS: A SL63 and SL65 were both running on my last event with NO brake issues, however they were NOT pushing their cars hard at all.

The CLK Black is a different animal even in stock trim. No issues at all with brake fade with stock pads and long run groups. Even when pushed HARD.

[MRAMG1]

Originally Posted by AMG Dictator

The CLK Black is a different animal even in stock trim. No issues at all with brake fade with stock pads and long run groups. Even when pushed HARD.

Tell that to Jrcart my friend

I think he would disagree with you.

See yeah

Note: Just pointing out some info that I had, not trying to stir the pot.

[DFW01E55]

Originally Posted by MRAMG1

Tell that to Jrcart my friend

I think he would disagree with you.

See yeah

Note: Just pointing out some info that I had, not trying to stir the pot.

Jrcart from post #8 above:
I have been running stock pads and rotors without too many complaints, fade has been minimal.