How to: buffing out swirl marks with a Porter Cable Buffer *UPDATED*

[oggle]

Originally posted by AlBoston Yes oggle, GEPC has mild mild abrasives that just give the finish that final touch and will remove light hazing caused by the 3M SMR. GEPC has tons of gloss enhancing oils, these oils will inhibit zaino from bonding to the paint. Therefore you must wash with dawn (strips oils) to have the zaino bond to the bare paint. my 1000th post!!!! Haha congrats! Yeah the 3M SMR left an ugly streak of haze all over the car. GEPC took it right out.

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[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by AlBoston
very good oggle! I hope you washed the car with Dawn after polishing with the P21S GEPC... or else the zaino will not have bonded correctly.

Al i got a quick question and need your answer

My sister has a 5 month old jetta and i washed and zainod it today, it was the first time it was waxed, besides the dealer i guess, i only washed the car with Meguairs gold class shampoo then i applyed Z2. Was i supose to use dawn to wash it? i thought only if i was to use something else before it? I hope not because it took me 5 hours.

[Kar don]

Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe
Al i got a quick question and need your answer

My sister has a 5 month old jetta and i washed and zainod it today, it was the first time it was waxed, besides the dealer i guess, i only washed the car with Meguairs gold class shampoo then i applyed Z2. Was i supose to use dawn to wash it? i thought only if i was to use something else before it? I hope not because it took me 5 hours.

ya you probably should have dawn washed it . Hopefull the dealer wax was all gone, you should be ok though. did you use ZFX?

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by AlBoston
ya you probably should have dawn washed it . Hopefull the dealer wax was all gone, you should be ok though. did you use ZFX?

damit i did not think to dawn wash it. I think all the dealer wax was definitly gone from it maybe being outside all the time and washed alot, if i was to take my finger nail lightly and slide it on the car it felt like a chalk board, now with just 1 coat of Z2 it glides. i hope its ok. And no i did not use ZFX, i never even purchaded it because i did not think i needed it. What would that have done?

[Kar don]

Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe
damit i did not think to dawn wash it. I think all the dealer wax was definitly gone from it maybe being outside all the time and washed alot, if i was to take my finger nail lightly and slide it on the car it felt like a chalk board, now with just 1 coat of Z2 it glides. i hope its ok. And no i did not use ZFX, i never even purchaded it because i did not think i needed it. What would that have done?

do you at least have Z1??? you need ZFX or Z1 for the zaino system to work correctly!

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by AlBoston
do you at least have Z1??? you need ZFX or Z1 for the zaino system to work correctly!

no, like i said i just used Z2, i know now i sound stupid, but u never told me anything with all my questions asked that i should use Z1 first.

[Kar don]

Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe
no, like i said i just used Z2, i know now i sound stupid, but u never told me anything with all my questions asked that i should use Z1 first.

Oh man, order some ZFX or Z1, im surprised you arent complaing of streaking or poor durability! Sorry man.

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by AlBoston
Oh man, order some ZFX or Z1, im surprised you arent complaing of streaking or poor durability! Sorry man.

Which one would u reccomend me to get? and can you tell me specificly when they should be used?

There was actaully not much if any streaking for some reason.
What would u reccomend me to do to my sisters car? should i leave it how it is? The car happens to look great and its very very smooth. Should i do it over or add something or can i just leave it how it is? Its a silver car if that matters.

This will also be helpful for my future use.

Thanks.

[BlackC230Coupe]

AL i am still waiting for your response.

btw- since all i did was zaino (Z2) and u said it may not bond correctly how come the car feels incredibly smooth now?

thanks

[500AMG]

I'm sure the Zaino will still bond, but not as well. Meaning it probably will not last as long as Zaino that was applied with Z1/ZFX.

[Kar don]

Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe
Which one would u reccomend me to get? and can you tell me specificly when they should be used?

There was actaully not much if any streaking for some reason.
What would u reccomend me to do to my sisters car? should i leave it how it is? The car happens to look great and its very very smooth. Should i do it over or add something or can i just leave it how it is? Its a silver car if that matters.

This will also be helpful for my future use.

Thanks.

I would avoid Z1 as it is reported hard to use. ZFX is a little time consuming but it allows you to do 3 coats in one day. It is required for the first time when using zaino on a car and every 4-6 months thereafter. U basically mix 4-5 drops with 1 ounce of the zaino paint sealant and mix for 60-90 seconds, then let it activate the product for 5 min then apply. Durability will be increased, etc. Also you should do a dawn wash whenever there are oils, polish residue, or wax that was on the paint to prep the finish for zaino. That should answer ur question. I thought you read the zaino site? Z1 or ZFX is a crucial part of the Zaino system.

[oggle]

How is Z1 hard to use? You just apply it on the car that's it right?

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by AlBoston
I would avoid Z1 as it is reported hard to use. ZFX is a little time consuming but it allows you to do 3 coats in one day. It is required for the first time when using zaino on a car and every 4-6 months thereafter. U basically mix 4-5 drops with 1 ounce of the zaino paint sealant and mix for 60-90 seconds, then let it activate the product for 5 min then apply. Durability will be increased, etc. Also you should do a dawn wash whenever there are oils, polish residue, or wax that was on the paint to prep the finish for zaino. That should answer ur question. I thought you read the zaino site? Z1 or ZFX is a crucial part of the Zaino system.

I did read the whole Zaino site but since you never told me to use Z1 or ZFX before i did not think it was needed.

So I should use ZFX even if i am only planning on doing 1 coat?

[500AMG]

There is actually a good test going on over at autopia.org with Zaino over GEPC (gloss enhancing paint cleaner made by p21s) and other glazes/gloss enhancing products. The verdict is still out, but I believe so far both sides of the car are faring well (other side is only Zaino). It's pretty interesting. I know Blackfire II can be applied over anything except a carnuba wax, so I wonder if Zaino can as well. Supposedly, Sal said it is ok...but that is only heresay (sp?).

[pmergler]

I have a question about the Meguiar's Professional #9 product. I have been going round and round with my wife about this product. Her boss is a HUGE porsche car show buff. He is telling my wife that we should NOT use Meguiar's #9. He said that if you use #7 and the wax religiously that there will be no need for #9. He said that you shouldn't use it because it will just ruin your clear coat and paint, and that it is really hard to get your entire paint job completely smooth using the product. I have tried to explain to her that from reading this thread, #9 is the only way to get out slight swirls and that the #7 just temporarily covers them up. Thoughts? Will using #9 really hurt my clear coat and paint? My car is only 4 months new.....

Also, if I wanted to go the Meguiar's Professional Canuba wax route which should I use? I have seen both #16 in the blue jar and the #24 (i think).... thanks so much for the replies!

[Anthony Orosco]

BlackC230,

It is not necessary to use "dawn" soap before, during or after any of your detailing steps, even if using Zaino.

I have removed Zaino and all other polymers with a regular washing, a claying session and then going directly to the paint cleaning step.

It would seem that in the desire to simplify the art and science of detailing we have in fact complicated it and left the weekend warrior dumbfounded.

Wash/clay/clean/polish/seal If you have a finish that is properly cleaned and polished you can apply Turtle Wax and get great results.

Anthony

[Kar don]

Originally posted by Anthony Orosco
BlackC230,

It is not necessary to use "dawn" soap before, during or after any of your detailing steps, even if using Zaino.

I have removed Zaino and all other polymers with a regular washing, a claying session and then going directly to the paint cleaning step.

It would seem that in the desire to simplify the art and science of detailing we have in fact complicated it and left the weekend warrior dumbfounded.

Wash/clay/clean/polish/seal If you have a finish that is properly cleaned and polished you can apply Turtle Wax and get great results.

Anthony

Dawn is only used before applying Zaino. The only reason I would suggest to use dawn is if he had used a polish before hand (with oils and fillers, zaino will not bond to these oils and fillers according to Sal Zaino). I am just following Sal's instructions who created the product, so I feel he knows best. If I am not using Zaino, i never use Dawn! simple as that!

[Anthony Orosco]

Dawn is only used before applying Zaino. The only reason I would suggest to use dawn is if he had used a polish before hand (with oils and fillers, zaino will not bond to these oils and fillers according to Sal Zaino). I am just following Sal's instructions who created the product, so I feel he knows best. If I am not using Zaino, i never use Dawn! simple as that!

I do apologize for the extended leave of absence

The above quote, and also others that I have read along these lines seems to be contradictory to the whole purpose of the polishing step. In other words why would you polish your finish, get it looking real nice, to then only strip it all off using Dawn dish soap or a paint cleaner ??

What then is the purpose of spending all that time polishing?

I have seen posts where someone is told to use 3m HG, #7, #9 or some other polish but then before applying Zaino you must use Dawn to wash the car so Zaino will bond correctly, that just doesn't make any sense to me.

Anthony

[MBZ12]

Guys....I've got a simpler way to get swirls out. I purchased this car wash/polish called Dri Wash. The stuff cleans like no other I've ever used. I have an '02 Obsidian Black E320 and had developed the much hated swirls and couldn't get them out. Anyway, after washing my car, then using this product, swirls are gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Worked for me.....

[Anthony Orosco]

Originally posted by MBZ12
Guys....I've got a simpler way to get swirls out. I purchased this car wash/polish called Dri Wash. The stuff cleans like no other I've ever used. I have an '02 Obsidian Black E320 and had developed the much hated swirls and couldn't get them out. Anyway, after washing my car, then using this product, swirls are gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Worked for me.....

The Dri-Wash stuff you mention more likely than not has "hidden" or "filled" the swirls because in order to remove swirls you need an abrasive cleaning/polishing product and Dri-Wash is not this type of product.

It's also very tough to remove swirls by hand, at least completely.

Anthony

[MBZ12]

Originally posted by Anthony Orosco
The Dri-Wash stuff you mention more likely than not has "hidden" or "filled" the swirls because in order to remove swirls you need an abrasive cleaning/polishing product and Dri-Wash is not this type of product.

It's also very tough to remove swirls by hand, at least completely.

Anthony

You might be right but for whatever the reason...they're gone!!! I used this stuff again yesterday and the day was clear with the sun shining all day and I didn't notice any swirls as I had before. Not sure why but they're gone on my car....

[Anthony Orosco]

If you really want to check it out, spray down a panel with a 50/50 mixture of water and rubbing alcohol and then wipe it down. See how it looks after this. If the swirls have been truly removed then the panel will be swirl free, if they re-appear then you knwo it has fillers.




Anthony

[Greg Elmassian]

I thought carnuba is resistant to isopropyl alcohol ???

Greg

[Buellwinkle]

Althought I'm happy with my rotary high speed buffer, I broke down and got the Porter Cable 7336 for $99 at Lowes. At the MBWorld Meguiars Detail Day seminar last week, they recommend 4-5 lbs. pressure on the buffer and never use a wool pad on a clear coat paint, it's too harsh, they recommend their yellow foam pad for polishing, white for wax. Also they recomend no higher than a 3 setting for polishes. We took the worst swirled black C240 and buffed it with Meguiars #80 Speed Glaze (milder than #83 but much stronger than #9 swirl remover) and the yellow foam pad they sell and it took the swirls out and left a very nice finish. Then we applied their NXT wax using the buffer and it came out great.

The main reason I got the DA buffer was because the rotary type splatters no matter how careful you are and makes a hard to clean mess of my kid's convertible top. The DA buffer does just as good a job but takes at least twice as long. I would still use the rotary for heavy swirled cars, not because it does a better job, because it does it faster and who wants to spend 2-3 hours per coat buffing. I also don't buy that a rotary is higher risk, the risk is in the choice of pads and chemicals and technique, if you used too strong of a pad and chemical I believe you can damage the paint using any method, even by hand. The way Meguiars demonstrates how to damage paint with a rotary would cause more damage with a DA buffer. They use the coarsest compound with a wool pad and use the very edge of an oversized buffing pad and see how bad rotary buffers are, duhh!!! Try that with a DA buffer, forget the finish, you'll put dents in the hood. Sometime you have to take what they say with a grain of salt as they sell a DA buffer and no rotary buffers so which one are they going to promote.

Check out the meguiarsonline.com website/forum, their reps (mostly Mike Phillips) are quick to answer any detailing questions.

[revstriker]

After reading your post, I too broke down, and bought the 7336 from Loews ($99). I also ordered the DACP and the #9 Swirl Mark remover from the Maguires website. I am still a fan of Zaino, and I still plan to use Zaino going forward, but the commercial car wash I have been going to (yes, I've been lazy ) has left my car a little too swirly for my taste. I also ordered some pads, including a backing plate from Classic Motoring Accessories.

Now all I need is a decent day in January where I can work with my car!