How to: buffing out swirl marks with a Porter Cable Buffer *UPDATED*

[Kar don]

A lot of people have been asking me lately how to buff swirl marks out of the paint using a random orbital buffer(Porter cable 7336SP). I only recommend using this buffer or a similar RANDOM ORBITAL buffer, do not use a rotary, there is too much risk involved for a beginner. Also I do not guarantee perfect results, perfect results comes with practice from these basic instruction that i can provide you. This is how I do all the cars I do and I find it is the technique that works best for me. I suggest playing around a little bit and experiment (dont forget to post your results!) Here are the instructions for a car with a fair amount of swirl marks. I recommend getting a porter cable 7336SP from your local lowes and buying the porter cable pad accessory kit from www.properautocare.com Also try and find a local body shop supply store that carries professional line of products. I highly recommend Menzerna Intensive Polish and Final Polish 2 which is specially formulated for german paints and is also approved for use on the new nano clear. Intensive polish is a fairly aggressive polish, excellent at removing swirls and is very easy to use, especially for a beginner. 1) I would use the yellow constant pressure pad that comes in the kit(if u have a lot of swirls) and make 4 dime sized drops of the product around the pad and rub it around a 2ft by 2ft section while the machine is off. (I actually suggest that you try the yellow pad first, you want to try and use the least aggresive route to removing swirls as possible, most automotive paint finishes are extremely thin so be careful!) 2)Go to the top left corner of the section, set the machine speed to 5 and start it pushing down with about 10 pounds of pressure. go side to side until you reach the bottom right corner and then start going up and down(over lap the passes of the buffer, just like mowing the lawn) still with 10 pounds of pressure until you reach the top left corner again. 3)Now lighten up pressure and keep repeating this until u see the product has almost completely buffed out (dissapeared). Now turn the machine off and wipe off the excess residue with a quality microfiber towel. Tips: Remember to let off on pressure around edges and tops of the fender as the paint is usually thinner in these areas. Also avoid crossing body gaps with pressure, or you will get a lot of splatter. I also recommend taping off rubber/plastic trim unless u are really skilled at avoid the trim(the machine does vibrate all over the place). After u have used the intensive polish with a wool pad, I would follow up with Final Polish 2 (if you are good at buffing you might not even have to follow up!) swirl remover to remove any swirls left behind or hazing created by incompletely buffing out the product. This haze is especially noticeable on a black car. Work this swirl remover in the same way as the intensive polish but use the white pad that comes in the kit, not the wool or yellow pad. This should leave u with a near perfect finish, dont expect all the swirls gone but a good amount of them will dissapear and the others will be diminshed. Then top it with whatever sealant or wax you like, intensive polish and final polish 2 are excellent because they contain no oils or fillers which means you can apply a paint sealant (such as klasse or zaino) right on the paint with no wash!

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[E320]

Al,
Very nice info..
Regarding the pads kit when you say wool pad are you talking about he lambswool pad?

[Kar don]

yea thats the lambswool pad, it has the most polishing power.

[E320]

thanks..

[Kar don]

oh by all means do not use the terry cloth bonnets that come in the kit on your paint, they are extremely rough and will swirl your paint!

[ITG33k]

Thanks for the instrustions. Do I have to wash my car before I use the DACP? Or can I just use California Duster and begin polishing away?

[Kar don]

good point, defintely wash the car. lol i totally forgot to mention that.

[BlackC230Coupe]

AlBoston i have 2 questions

1. If i notice some small swirls on my car can i just use the meguairs #9 swirl remover and not put a coat of wax on it? Or does it not serve a purpose without wax over it?

2. Does a 100% Terry cloth pad really scratch your paint? i had some light swirls and i waxed it with the terry pad on my buffer and it came out fine and took out the swirls. Is the Terry pad really bad to use?

oh wait one more question do u recomend putting wax on and taking it off with the buffer? i did that and was pretty happy with the results. It dosent sound like u perfer that, why would u rather take it off by hand?

thanks

[JustinTRW]

Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe
AlBoston i have 2 questions

1. If i notice some small swirls on my car can i just use the meguairs #9 swirl remover and not put a coat of wax on it? Or does it not serve a purpose without wax over it?

2. Does a 100% Terry cloth pad really scratch your paint? i had some light swirls and i waxed it with the terry pad on my buffer and it came out fine and took out the swirls. Is the Terry pad really bad to use?

oh wait one more question do u recomend putting wax on and taking it off with the buffer? i did that and was pretty happy with the results. It dosent sound like u perfer that, why would u rather take it off by hand?

thanks

I got this one Ali...

1) I used #9 with a yellow cutting pad, followed by Klasse AIO with a white pad. My swirls were not that bad, but now I am swirl free On black this is a huge plus. Basically, if you do not follow with a wax or get the surface ready for a sealant and seal, you are opening up your surface to getting swirls and defects. Can you still get swirls with a wax or sealant applied? Yes, but there is still some protection there as well as increased shine. #9 will work just fine alone. However, the purpose of my #9 use was to get rid of the swirls before my Zaino application. If you only want to do one step, I'd go with the wax so at least you will have protection. I highly recommend you do both steps. Polish once a year (or less preferably) and keep up with the wax or sealant as much as possible. The best way to fight swirls is to keep them away in the first place. Once you polish, you want to keep the surface looking good.

2) It depends on the terry cloth you use. Ali was referring to the terry bonnets that come with the CMA pad kit at www.properautocare.com. Theoretically, if you can find a 100% REAL cotton bonnet, it will not scratch if the nap is thick enough. However, finding a high quality one that is good enough is pretty rare, so I'd stick to microfiber bonnets. The risk potentially is too great. The other downfall to using a bonnet is that the surface area is very small. If you use one for the entire car, think about if any dust was caught in it. There is a great potential for swirl marks. Personally, I do not like buffing off the wax with an orbital w/ bonnet for this exact reason.

BTW, a pure wax cannot remove swirls. The best a wax can do is help fill light swirls, but once you wash with dawn they will be back. If you use a sealant over wax, you will be able to see them in full glory as well.

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by JustinTRW


I got this one Ali...

1) I used #9 with a yellow cutting pad, followed by Klasse AIO with a white pad. My swirls were not that bad, but now I am swirl free On black this is a huge plus. Basically, if you do not follow with a wax or get the surface ready for a sealant and seal, you are opening up your surface to getting swirls and defects. Can you still get swirls with a wax or sealant applied? Yes, but there is still some protection there as well as increased shine. #9 will work just fine alone. However, the purpose of my #9 use was to get rid of the swirls before my Zaino application. If you only want to do one step, I'd go with the wax so at least you will have protection. I highly recommend you do both steps. Polish once a year (or less preferably) and keep up with the wax or sealant as much as possible. The best way to fight swirls is to keep them away in the first place. Once you polish, you want to keep the surface looking good.

2) It depends on the terry cloth you use. Ali was referring to the terry bonnets that come with the CMA pad kit at www.properautocare.com. Theoretically, if you can find a 100% REAL cotton bonnet, it will not scratch if the nap is thick enough. However, finding a high quality one that is good enough is pretty rare, so I'd stick to microfiber bonnets. The risk potentially is too great. The other downfall to using a bonnet is that the surface area is very small. If you use one for the entire car, think about if any dust was caught in it. There is a great potential for swirl marks. Personally, I do not like buffing off the wax with an orbital w/ bonnet for this exact reason.

BTW, a pure wax cannot remove swirls. The best a wax can do is help fill light swirls, but once you wash with dawn they will be back. If you use a sealant over wax, you will be able to see them in full glory as well.

Thanks for the helpful reply.

I just have a question now since u said " a pure wax cannot remove swirls. The best a wax can do is help fill light swirls, but once you wash with dawn they will be back. If you use a sealant over wax, you will be able to see them in full glory as well."

So bascily what can get out swirls? just the swirl remover?
Somehow when i even used the #9 swirl remover it did not take out the swirls. I dont know why that is, and i should not polish my car more than once a year? i wax about every month with meguairs gold class wax. I am going to stop using that and get the Zaino Z2 and Z5. would u only reccomend using the Z2 once a year also?

thanks

[DrNick]

AlBoston, what is the difference between the Porter Cable7424 and the 7336 you recommended? I have seen the 7424 on the properautocare website. Do you recommend using this machine on a car with no swirls? I will also be using it on my boat.
Thanks for sharing all your expertise.
DrNick (Boston)
2000 E320 4Matic - Desert Silver - no swirls

[JustinTRW]

Both machines are the same, but they come equipped differently. The 7336sp comes with a 6" counterweight as in ready for sanding projects. The 7424 comes with a 5" but a foam polishing pad (that is not very good) is included. Try www.coastaltool.com. The unit is $120 there I believe and is the 7424 with 6" counterweight and hook & loop backing pad. Best deal I've seen IMO.

[Kar don]

hey nick! if u want to meet up and can show u everything u need to know about detailing, lol. I would get the 7336 because it comes with the 6 inch counterweight. a PC can be used on a swirl free car, but are u positive ur car is swirl free? It is very hard to see swirls on light colored cars, i bet i can find some for ya, hehe j/k man. I got my PC at the lowes in worcester.

[JustinTRW]

Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe


Thanks for the helpful reply.

I just have a question now since u said " a pure wax cannot remove swirls. The best a wax can do is help fill light swirls, but once you wash with dawn they will be back. If you use a sealant over wax, you will be able to see them in full glory as well."

So bascily what can get out swirls? just the swirl remover?
Somehow when i even used the #9 swirl remover it did not take out the swirls. I dont know why that is, and i should not polish my car more than once a year? i wax about every month with meguairs gold class wax. I am going to stop using that and get the Zaino Z2 and Z5. would u only reccomend using the Z2 once a year also?

thanks

No no no.

Basically, abrasives (polishes are abrasive) removes swirls and defects. They "cut" the paint down so to speak. You should not polish every week. Non-abrasives do not remove any defects and cannot harm the paint. Some non-abrasives contain filler oils that fill your scratches, but if they were removed, you can see the scratch again.

Regular waxes and Zaino (a sealant) are non-abrasive. So you can use them very often. Zaino is NOT a polish despite what zainobros.com says. Both waxes and sealants are the final thing you put on the car typically. #9 is an abrasive polish. It is a mild abrasive that reduces the appearance of swirls but leveling the paint so to speak. It has some filler oils in it (see above about filler oils). It may be harmful to the longevity of your clearcoat (the clear layer of paint MB cars have on top of the colored paint) to use this product each and every week.

So what you need to do is:
1) Remove the swirls with an abrasive polish
2) Prep the surface accordingly (more later)
3) apply either a wax OR a sealant.

Waxes can be applied over sealants (not recommended with Zaino), but sealants cannot be applied over waxes.

THEREFORE, you need to do this....

Do you have a Porter-Cable? Let me know, and I can give you advice from there.

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by JustinTRW


No no no.

Basically, abrasives (polishes are abrasive) removes swirls and defects. They "cut" the paint down so too speak. You should not polish every week. Non-abrasives do not remove any defects and cannot harm the paint. Some non-abrasives contain filler oils that fill your scratches, but if they were removed, you can see the scratch again.

Regular waxes and Zaino (a sealant) are non-abrasive. So you can use them very often. Zaino is NOT a polish despite what zainobros.com says. Both waxes and sealants are the final thing you put on the car typically. #9 is an abrasive polish. It is a mild abrasive that reduces the appearance of swirls but leveling the paint so to speak. It has some filler oils in it (see above about filler oils). It may be harmful to the longevity of your clearcoat (the clear layer of paint MB cars have on top of the colored paint) to use this product each and every week.

So what you need to do is:
1) Remove the swirls with an abrasive polish
2) Prep the surface accordingly (more later)
3) apply either a wax OR a sealant.

Waxes can be applied over sealants (not recommended with Zaino), but sealants cannot be applied over waxes.

THEREFORE, you need to do this....

Do you have a Porter-Cable? Let me know, and I can give you advice from there.

I tried getting a proter cable at my Lowes but none on my state carry them, Of course i can order one online but when i wanted a buffer the day i went looking the best one they had was a Ryobi (i think it is) orbital buffer. I used it once to apply and take off my meguairs gold class wax and it came out great. it came with a 100% terry cloth and a wool type that is very very soft.

So if i ever had swirls i first use a wax or sealant and then #9 swirl reomover? i thought it was the other way around. Sorry if i am misunderstanding this.

thanks

[Kar don]

Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe


I tried getting a proter cable at my Lowes but none on my state carry them, Of course i can order one online but when i wanted a buffer the day i went looking the best one they had was a Ryobi (i think it is) orbital buffer. I used it once to apply and take off my meguairs gold class wax and it came out great. it came with a 100% terry cloth and a wool type that is very very soft.

So if i ever had swirls i first use a wax or sealant and then #9 swirl reomover? i thought it was the other way around. Sorry if i am misunderstanding this.

thanks

yea u thought right, other way around as explained in my orginal instructions.

Originally posted by AlBoston
After u have used the dual action cleaner polish with a wool pad, I would follow up with meguiars #9 2.0 swirl remover to remove any swirls left behind or hazing created by incompletely buffing out the product. This haze is especially noticeable on a black car. Work this swirl remover in the same way as the DACP but use the white pad that comes in the kit, not the wool or yellow pad. This should leave u with a near perfect finish, dont expect all the swirls gone but a good amount of them will dissapear and the others will be diminshed. Then dawn wash the vehicle if you plan on going the Zaino route or Klasse to remove gloss enhancers and polishing oils left behind by the polish or just top it with your favorite carnuaba wax. If you have any further questions dont be afraid to ask!

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by AlBoston


yea u thought right, other way around as explained in my orginal instructions.

ok thanks i thought that but somehow what Justin TRW said it seemed the other way around.

[JustinTRW]

Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe


ok thanks i thought that but somehow what Justin TRW said it seemed the other way around.

How did you think that?

Originally posted by JustinTRW
So what you need to do is:
1) Remove the swirls with an abrasive polish
2) Prep the surface accordingly (more later)
3) apply either a wax OR a sealant.

[DrNick]

Originally posted by AlBoston
hey nick! if u want to meet up and can show u everything u need to know about detailing, lol... a PC can be used on a swirl free car, but are u positive ur car is swirl free? It is very hard to see swirls on light colored cars, i bet i can find some for ya, hehe j/k man...

AlBoston - Where are you located in the Boston area? I am in Boxford, 20 minutes north of the bridge and I used to live in JP. I can find a few swirls with a fluorescent light. I bought my 2000 E320 4Matic with 5000 miles on it from an undertaker in Everett, Mass. They jumped on the chance to buy a 6 month old 2001 E430 4Matic with 700 (yes just two zeros) from a retiree who was moving to Arizona and was concerned that he would never find a buyer for a 4Matic in the desert. His son, who also worked in the family business, had an auto detailing business which he ran out of the garage they used for their limos and hearses. When business was dead and he wasn't detailing human bodies he would detail auto bodies. Father and son made it a point to show me how to close the trunk without touching any painted surfaces. They used Meguire's professional products, I use Zaino.
Thanks again for your input,
DrNick

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by JustinTRW


How did you think that?

after reading both your posts again i dont know how the hell i did think that. sorry i guess i missunderstood u.

now that u know what buffer i have what can u tell me to do? is to to bad to do anything good?

[JustinTRW]

It will take me more energy than I have right now to explain it, LOL. Therefore, I will edit this post in the morning with the instructions. Good night

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by JustinTRW
It will take me more energy than I have right now to explain it, LOL. Therefore, I will edit this post in the morning with the instructions. Good night

ok, lol. i understand. i was so tired last night that thats probally why i did not even understand your post to me.

[JustinTRW]

Ok, here's what you need to do:

Product Shopping list:
- I would suggest getting some microfiber towels from neatitems.com www.pakshak.com. They are very gentle on your car and will make your life easier. At least five. You be the judge here.
- Meguiar's Dual Action Cleaner Polish
- Meguiar's #9 (maybe)
- Eage One Wet Wipe N' Shine OR Meguiar's Final Inspection. One spray bottle.
- Clay Magic detailing clay (the blue clay)
- your Zaino product (you want to use Zaino right)

First you need to wash the car with dawn dishwashing liquid. You need to wash the car before starting, so you might as well use dawn to strip anything on the car. There is no need to dry thoroughly (i.e. making sure there are no water spots). Do make sure you can all the water off, but if the water streaks of anything, it's ok. To learn how to wash, go here: http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...threadid=12843

Then you need to use the clay. Those directions are here: http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...hreadid=14901. We have already done the washing step of this process.

Next is the swirl removal step. Get out your orbital. Follow AlBoston's directions on the first page of THIS THREAD. However, I would not use the DACP (Dual Action Cleaner Polish) with a wool pad simply because you are a newbie to this sort of thing and could mess it up. Use a foam polishing pad. What size is your orbital? If it does not have enough power, you will not be able to use DACP with it that well. After following AlBoston's directions, you may have to follow with Meguiar's #9. Evaluate the finish and see if it needs it. The swirl removal step is a bit iffy because I don't know how your orbital will perform. BTW, never use the two different products with the same pad without first washing the pad out very well with dawn dishwashing liquid and rinsing thoroughly.

Hopefully your swirls have been dramatically reduced. Now you need to do another dawn wash, using the same technique as you did the first time. However, now you need to dry the car perfectly. Now you are ready to apply Zaino. Follow the directions at http://www.zainobros.com and you will be set.

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by JustinTRW
Ok, here's what you need to do:

Product Shopping list:
- I would suggest getting some microfiber towels from neatitems.com www.pakshak.com. They are very gentle on your car and will make your life easier. At least five. You be the judge here.
- Meguiar's Dual Action Cleaner Polish
- Meguiar's #9 (maybe)
- Eage One Wet Wipe N' Shine OR Meguiar's Final Inspection. One spray bottle.
- Clay Magic detailing clay (the blue clay)
- your Zaino product (you want to use Zaino right)

First you need to wash the car with dawn dishwashing liquid. You need to wash the car before starting, so you might as well use dawn to strip anything on the car. There is no need to dry thoroughly (i.e. making sure there are no water spots). Do make sure you can all the water off, but if the water streaks of anything, it's ok. To learn how to wash, go here: http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...threadid=12843

Then you need to use the clay. Those directions are here: http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...hreadid=14901. We have already done the washing step of this process.

Next is the swirl removal step. Get out your orbital. Follow AlBoston's directions on the first page of THIS THREAD. However, I would not use the DACP (Dual Action Cleaner Polish) with a wool pad simply because you are a newbie to this sort of thing and could mess it up. Use a foam polishing pad. What size is your orbital? If it does not have enough power, you will not be able to use DACP with it that well. After following AlBoston's directions, you may have to follow with Meguiar's #9. Evaluate the finish and see if it needs it. The swirl removal step is a bit iffy because I don't know how your orbital will perform. BTW, never use the two different products with the same pad without first washing the pad out very well with dawn dishwashing liquid and rinsing thoroughly.

Hopefully your swirls have been dramatically reduced. Now you need to do another dawn wash, using the same technique as you did the first time. However, now you need to dry the car perfectly. Now you are ready to apply Zaino. Follow the directions at http://www.zainobros.com and you will be set.

i already have lots of microfiber towels and since u asked i have a 10" buffer.

Would u suggest me doing all the steps u said? if i just have some minor swirl marks? also what if i just used the Zaino Z5 and then Z2 on my car would that help get rid of the minor swirls?

or should i go with the steps u suggest? is the clay bar really neccisary? since its a new car? did u clay your car yet? and about approximitly how long does it take to clay the car?
and does the clay take out swirls at all?

[JustinTRW]

Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe


i already have lots of microfiber towels and since u asked i have a 10" buffer.

Would u suggest me doing all the steps u said? if i just have some minor swirl marks? also what if i just used the Zaino Z5 and then Z2 on my car would that help get rid of the minor swirls?

or should i go with the steps u suggest? is the clay bar really neccisary? since its a new car? did u clay your car yet? and about approximitly how long does it take to clay the car?
and does the clay take out swirls at all?

If you read the clay article AlBoston wrote, you can see that clay is not for swirl marks. Clay makes the finish 100% smooth. It removes solid contaminants. Don't believe you have any? Take a plastic ziplock bag and put your hand inside it. Gently feel the paint by runnng your finger across. If you feel any bumps or unsmoothness, you need to clay. I did it to my new car and noticed an improvement. At the very least, I would do a claying and then use Z-5 and Z-2. If you want, you can just use #9 with the orbital. I used only #9, but I have a Porter Cable and the proper cutting pads which helped maximize what it can do. Your 10" doesn't have much power for swirl removal, so I'm not sure how much you will be able to remove.

You could even just do a dawn wash, Z-5, and then Z-2. It sounds like you were happy with the Meguiar's wax, so you probably won't care too much about all these steps. I want my finish as perfect as possible, so I did everything to ensure it. Also, if you do not wash your car by hand meticulously from now on, I would skip the swirl removal stage. The swirls will just come back guaranteed. If you are not willing to do the swirl removal step carefully, I would skip it.