ULSD vs LSD fuel in 320CDI?

[johnshasteen]

I knew there was some reason I have been driving my '84 300CD (and my wife, her '82 300SD) since new and have never been tempted to move down to any of the lesser diesels built in the interim. We use RedLine diesel catalyst in both cars and have never had any smoke and other than water, they don't care what you put in the tank - including accidently putting a couple of gallons of gasoline or kerosene. And yes, I know that neither car has a cup holder - I can live with that.

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[BenzDieselTuner]

Originally Posted by johnshasteen

I knew there was some reason I have been driving my '84 300CD (and my wife, her '82 300SD) since new and have never been tempted to move down to any of the lesser diesels built in the interim. We use RedLine diesel catalyst in both cars and have never had any smoke and other than water, they don't care what you put in the tank - including accidently putting a couple of gallons of gasoline or kerosene. And yes, I know that neither car has a cup holder - I can live with that.

never get rid of your cars!!!!!!

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by johnshasteen

I knew there was some reason I have been driving my '84 300CD (and my wife, her '82 300SD) since new and have never been tempted to move down to any of the lesser diesels built in the interim. We use RedLine diesel catalyst in both cars and have never had any smoke and other than water, they don't care what you put in the tank - including accidently putting a couple of gallons of gasoline or kerosene. And yes, I know that neither car has a cup holder - I can live with that.

What is Redline diesel catalyst? Is it a diesel additive or a catalytic converter? I know kerosene is good in the winter. MB suggested up to 1999 MY diesels that 10% is fine for winter driving, just expect power loss, but gasoline is something else altogether.

I have used ATF, engine oil and some peanut oil but no other stuff and my 1999 VW Jetta TDi ran just fine on an Upsolute chip. No matter how hard I hammer the go pedal it returned 40 mpg city, 50 mpg highway every time.

[johnshasteen]

RedLine is a fuel additive, (you can find it at Pep Boys or on line, maybe some other auto parts stores) it doen't help winter starting, but it is great for increasing the Cetane rating of diesel and eliminating smoking. There are two versions RedLine and RedLine 85 - I don't know what the 85 signifies, but both versions work well. For winter starting most northern states stations go from #2 diesel to #1 Diesel and that seems to work fine for our old diesels here in St Louis.

[240D 3.0T]

Alright. Time to shake things up!!!

Found via: http://www.whnet.com/4x4/diesel.html
Why can MB commercial diesel trucks in Europe use sulfur fuel?
Mercedes answers in the FAQ for commercial Bluetec diesel trucks with AdBlue in Europe:

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by 240D 3.0T

Alright. Time to shake things up!!!

Found via: http://www.whnet.com/4x4/diesel.html
Why can MB commercial diesel trucks in Europe use sulfur fuel?
Mercedes answers in the FAQ for commercial Bluetec diesel trucks with AdBlue in Europe:

240,

Both answers referred to "Bluetec" not "AdBlue".

[DslBnz]

Originally Posted by 240D 3.0T

Alright. Time to shake things up!!!

Found via: http://www.whnet.com/4x4/diesel.html
Why can MB commercial diesel trucks in Europe use sulfur fuel?
Mercedes answers in the FAQ for commercial Bluetec diesel trucks with AdBlue in Europe:

???

The first question is answered vaguely. Of course it can use ALL diesel fuels approved for today. That is, only ULSD, of course for all 2007 engines.

The second question only addresses the oxidation catalysts (which are pretty much bulletproof). It does not address the particulate trap that CAN be damaged by higher sulfur content, or the extremely fine 9-hole injectors requiring extremely very tight fuel formulations.

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by DslBnz

???

The first question is answered vaguely. Of course it can use ALL diesel fuels approved for today. That is, only ULSD, of course for all 2007 engines.

The second question only addresses the oxidation catalysts (which are pretty much bulletproof). It does not address the particulate trap that CAN be damaged by higher sulfur content, or the extremely fine 9-hole injectors requiring extremely very tight fuel formulations.

Are the Bluetec injectors the same in the 2005-2006 CDis? Same injection pressure? Same number of holes and material?

As the 2005-2006 CDis in North America had been burning 500 ppm sulphur fuel their injectors would have all been damaged by now. I would suspect that they are different or made of different material anyway.

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by harkgar

Are the Bluetec injectors the same in the 2005-2006 CDis? Same injection pressure? Same number of holes and material?

As the 2005-2006 CDis in North America had been burning 500 ppm sulphur fuel their injectors would have all been damaged by now. I would suspect that they are different or made of different material anyway.

__________________________________________________ _______
http://driving.canada.com/research/v...py?artid=72320

they say that the 2007 ML, GL and R are NOT Bluetec engined. Any comments? Quote:
There is one caveat, though. While the engine benefits from third-generation common-rail diesel technology, it is not the Bluetec motor Mercedes is championing for some of its car lines. The M-Class won't see that until the 2009 model year. When it does arrive for the M, Mercedes says the Bluetec will include AdBlue injection, a process that adds a urea-based solution into the exhaust stream to help reduce nitrogen oxide emissions by up to 80%.

Other than the CDI badging on its back hatch, the ML 320 blends right in with its gas-powered siblings

[cdi1]

Originally Posted by harkgar

I guess the soot filter on your CDi is working overtime scrubbing the soot. I wonder if the straight 6, 2005-2006 E320 CDi cars are blowing any soot. I read that these engines have similar high pressure injectors like the Bluetec, around 23,000 PSI. They were described as "electro-magnetic" injectors while the Bluetec ones were described as "piezzo, electric" with more holes.

Any comments gentlemen?

I own an 06e320cdi and at idke and cruising down the road it does not smoke. However, if you accelerate briskly it will leave the diesel trail as it screams away. My car is bone stock no mods

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by cdi1

I own an 06e320cdi and at idke and cruising down the road it does not smoke. However, if you accelerate briskly it will leave the diesel trail as it screams away. My car is bone stock no mods

What is your CDi like? What mpg do you get highway-city? Mileage?

Any problems? Do you use any diesel additives?

Love black smoke, lots of it.

Thank you.

[DslBnz]

Originally Posted by harkgar

What is your CDi like? What mpg do you get highway-city? Mileage?

Any problems? Do you use any diesel additives?

Love black smoke, lots of it.

Thank you.

You like it? I hate it.

Black smoke from a diesel from a stop should be very minimal (almost invisible to the naked eye) at WOT. When cruising at 45 mph and dropping to 2nd gear, there should be no puffs of smoke at all.

Any more smoke and it is all or either: IP timing, EGR stuck, poor fuel quality, really poor injectors.

All of those will affect mileage.

Just for curiousity's sake. Those that are claiming extraordinary mileage, have they verified their odometer's accuracy with a GPS unit?

The only true way to check mileage is to actually fill up on level ground, and refill the same way. The key is the fuel must be visible up to the top of the filler cuff. Don't trust the LCD screen housed by the speedometer.

I am a bit skeptical that in a few years time (2000 - 2003) diesel engines can improve efficiency by 25% through just electronic fuel injection and common-rail direct-injection technology. The EPA scores are very close between a 1999 E300 Turbodiesel and a 2005 E320CDI.

Consider all the CDI's in Europe NEVER get the mileage claimed on many US boards. Usually the Euro 320CDI's average about 28 - 30 mpg while the C220CDI's get high 30's to low 40's.

Maybe it's the fuel quality (higher BTU compared to Euro-diesel)? Anybody experience major drops in mileage on their CDI vehicles with the new ULSD? I want to hear.

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by DslBnz

You like it? I hate it.

Black smoke from a diesel from a stop should be very minimal (almost invisible to the naked eye) at WOT. When cruising at 45 mph and dropping to 2nd gear, there should be no puffs of smoke at all.

Any more smoke and it is all or either: IP timing, EGR stuck, poor fuel quality, really poor injectors.

All of those will affect mileage.

Just for curiousity's sake. Those that are claiming extraordinary mileage, have they verified their odometer's accuracy with a GPS unit?

The only true way to check mileage is to actually fill up on level ground, and refill the same way. The key is the fuel must be visible up to the top of the filler cuff. Don't trust the LCD screen housed by the speedometer.

I am a bit skeptical that in a few years time (2000 - 2003) diesel engines can improve efficiency by 25% through just electronic fuel injection and common-rail direct-injection technology. The EPA scores are very close between a 1999 E300 Turbodiesel and a 2005 E320CDI.

Consider all the CDI's in Europe NEVER get the mileage claimed on many US boards. Usually the Euro 320CDI's average about 28 - 30 mpg while the C220CDI's get high 30's to low 40's.

Maybe it's the fuel quality (higher BTU compared to Euro-diesel)? Anybody experience major drops in mileage on their CDI vehicles with the new ULSD? I want to hear.

Agreed. Yours is the most accurate method for measuring mpg. Fill to the brim and zero the trip odometer. Drive until it is nearly empty. Check odometer and refuel to the brim again. Divide miles clocked by gallons on the fuel receipt. Very accurate.

LSD (500 ppm of sulfur) has 33.33 times more sulfur than ULSD (15 ppm of same)! MB claims that ULSD is only 1% less efficient than LSD in fuel mileage. How is that possible I wonder.

Any suggestions?

[cdi1]

Originally Posted by harkgar

What is your CDi like? What mpg do you get highway-city? Mileage?

Any problems? Do you use any diesel additives?

Love black smoke, lots of it.

Thank you.

So far, I am quite happy with my CDI. This is only the second vehicle I have ever owned that got the fuel mileage stated on the window sticker and this car will exceed it--if driven without exceeding the speed limit. My fuel mileage--city average 27-30 mpg, highway 36-38 mpg with no additives. My personal best mileage--southeast Ohio to about 65 miles beyond St Louis, MO--mileage 38.97mpg. I love the driving range of this car and virtually everything about it, My previous car was an 04 VW Passsat TDI wagon. This car was also a nice trouble-free car but only got the same fuel mileage as the CDI out of a 2.0 4 cylinder engine as opposed to the CDI's 3.2 6 cylinger. As of problems, my car has experienced no issues at all and has only been returned to the dealership for maintenance and detailing. As to black smoke, my CDI does not do so at idle or at normal driving. However, if you are on the entrance ramp on the interstate and ask for power--you will get it and a black trail that says "I am diesel, Hear me roar"

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by cdi1

So far, I am quite happy with my CDI. This is only the second vehicle I have ever owned that got the fuel mileage stated on the window sticker and this car will exceed it--if driven without exceeding the speed limit. My fuel mileage--city average 27-30 mpg, highway 36-38 mpg with no additives. My personal best mileage--southeast Ohio to about 65 miles beyond St Louis, MO--mileage 38.97mpg. I love the driving range of this car and virtually everything about it, My previous car was an 04 VW Passsat TDI wagon. This car was also a nice trouble-free car but only got the same fuel mileage as the CDI out of a 2.0 4 cylinder engine as opposed to the CDI's 3.2 6 cylinger. As of problems, my car has experienced no issues at all and has only been returned to the dealership for maintenance and detailing. As to black smoke, my CDI does not do so at idle or at normal driving. However, if you are on the entrance ramp on the interstate and ask for power--you will get it and a black trail that says "I am diesel, Hear me roar"

Holy smokes (literally)!! This black smoke thing really gives diesel heads boners. If my CDi is trouble free I am going to "chip" it with a Kleemann KD box. It is a pity there is no Carlsson agents in Toronto. Some members of this board thinks it is superior to Kleemann.