W124 vs New MB's???

[190E 16V]

What do you guys think of your W124 compared to the newer generations of MB's?

Does MB still need to build the 'tank'?

Is their new direction the right way to go?


Read this thread:

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250473

[BrabusBenz300E]

I'm not fond of the newer mercedes from the stand point of reliability. They're starting to get sexy again though.

[Saijin_Naib]

Reliability has gotten much better, performance is not even comprable. Any benz now can smoke the crap out of my CE. And I happen to think the w208 is dead sexy, especially as the 55 coupe. Nom nom. Ah well, the 300ce is good enough I suppose.

[190E 16V]

Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib

Reliability has gotten much better, performance is not even comprable. Any benz now can smoke the crap out of my CE. And I happen to think the w208 is dead sexy, especially as the 55 coupe. Nom nom. Ah well, the 300ce is good enough I suppose.

Sexy? You bet!

I like the CL55
and the C63

[ChrisDPham]

Originally Posted by 190E 16V

Sexy? You bet!

I like the CL55
and the C63

I love the C63 as well as my GF owns one and I drive it a lot but seeing that we are on the terms of reliability and 'tank' like reliability as well it's no where near my car.

[Federic0W124]

working on the new ones makes me appreciate the W124 more.
I'll lease a new E just to keep miles off my W124s.

[nantucketsleigh]

Decidedly different driving experience. Most would say that the newer cars feel more "refined". That might be true, but to me the newer cars feel more isolated. The steering and brakes on my 500E feel more natural than my '06 E500. The new 7G transmissions are light years ahead of the old 4 speeds - which when left in automatic mode make any car feel slow at anything less than 3/4 throttle. IMO the styling of the 124's have held up better than any MB sedans since. The added safety features on the new cars is a big plus. Net, net my '92 500E has been the only keeper of a dozen new cars I've owned since.

[RBYCC]

Compare any new Merc with a 124 and you will see lesser quality in the interior and overall fit and finish.
My comparison is with a 124 when new.
I can make this comparison as I have owned my 300CE from when it came off the showroom floor in May of 1988.

The 124 leather is as leather should be and was available in a myriad of colors.
The molded vinyl is tactile and not plastic appearing as in the new models.
I feel the 124 paint was superior in appearance as it had much more depth.

Finally the new Mercs all have a generic look, from the rear can't tell if your looking at a S550 or a Toyota / Hyundai.

I have two 124's a C124 and an A124...
Both are head turners and receive compliments from drivers of new Mercs...especially the A124 !!!

[BrabusBenz300E]

The interior on the new C is ATTROCIOUS. As sexy as it is on the outside...oh man

[Real1shepherd]

As a family car, I've always been partial to wagons. Raised & started driving US station wagons back in the late 60's. Big, unsafe sleds with 440's, 390's and 389's. My parents weren't partial to brands, just features and big motors-land yachts.

I've never seen a more svelte wagon than the W124 lines and I looked at everything out there at the time-even had money down on a Volvo turbo six wagon. MB wagons didn't even draw my eye (I thought they looked dated and clunky) until the W124 came out and I think the lines were compromised later after that series. I think it's pretty apparent now when you compare later MB's to the W124 series in quality of paint and over all fit & finish. As I said before, sometime after I bought my wagon new in '92, MB lowered the price of all their models across the board. I paid over $63K for mine and suddenly people were buying essentially the same car for $45K. I was angry at first, but soon realized what they had done-they cheapened the cars, became more reliant on computers and had less build quality over all.

As been said, the new MB's have gotten sexy again, but reading these boards indicates a definite reliability problem and a prospective indentured stint with the dealer.

Kevin

[Quicksilver500]

The new cars are crap compared to the w124/w126 series vehicles PERIOD

The m113 was the last good motor they made from a reliability stand point but it is not even close in overall quality of the m119 and m104. There is way way too much plastic on the newer ones, and too much electronic unreliable junk. I don't think they ride as well or provide the feed back of the older cars. I wrenched on them for a few years and I would buy a w126 or w124 over any of the newer stuff (AMG being the exception). I don't get the warm, quality, conservative feeling from the new cars, more like a cheapo lexus/infinity feeling....The new cars are designed and built on a totally new set of ideals and goals than the old cars. I was going to buy a 2002 or 2001 E55 and after driving a 500E once never looked back and I will probably never sell it because everytime I get in it, it makes me smile. Its a little more maintenance and a little less performance, but I'll be damned if it isn't twice the car the w210 is.

To me they just don't stand out and scream excellence anymore, its purely a status symbol. I would bet you could take a 70s/80s Merc with a god awful service record, poorly maintained, even abused and drive it cross country without major incident. I doubt there is another car or maker anyone could make that claim of.

-Mike

[battlecat714]

^^^ Iono...I drive a w124 but yet I absolutely loved the CLS when I drove it. Sure the quality isn't the same (E500 interior v. CLS or the CLS plastic gas cap) but hell, it looks and feels sick!

[Real1shepherd]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver500

The new cars are crap compared to the w124/w126 series vehicles PERIOD

The m113 was the last good motor they made from a reliability stand point but it is not even close in overall quality of the m119 and m104. There is way way too much plastic on the newer ones, and too much electronic unreliable junk. I don't think they ride as well or provide the feed back of the older cars. I wrenched on them for a few years and I would buy a w126 or w124 over any of the newer stuff (AMG being the exception). I don't get the warm, quality, conservative feeling from the new cars, more like a cheapo lexus/infinity feeling....The new cars are designed and built on a totally new set of ideals and goals than the old cars. I was going to buy a 2002 or 2001 E55 and after driving a 500E once never looked back and I will probably never sell it because everytime I get in it, it makes me smile. Its a little more maintenance and a little less performance, but I'll be damned if it isn't twice the car the w210 is.

To me they just don't stand out and scream excellence anymore, its purely a status symbol. I would bet you could take a 70s/80s Merc with a god awful service record, poorly maintained, even abused and drive it cross country without major incident. I doubt there is another car or maker anyone could make that claim of.

-Mike

I think you hammered the newer MB's with more courage than I was going to attempt. I just know I lived through this; watching MB drop prices on their whole line (after I bought mine) and then (out of curiosity) driving some of the newer ones. As you said, 'bottom line' became more of concern with MB, while longevity, reliability and build quality went way down. If you really look at the economics, one can afford to put a lot of money into an old W124 versus the price of a newer W210. In the long run, the restored W124 is a better example of what MB was capable of in excellence.

And hell yeah, I'm the living proof of your last statement. I got my MB back from the ex after she put nearly 200K on it (since I had last driven/owned it). Leaking head gasket, brakes in need of service, bad/rattling exhaust system etc, etc. Took my son on a wonderful 5,200 mile vacation around six states-I really believed the old car could do it. The car performed flawlessly, although we did have to dump coolant once due to oil contamination on the extreme. I also buried some rice tuners at over 130mph and threw the car into the twisties going up and down to Lake Tahoe. Some of those turns I took at over 80mph; the 4matic light even came on. Regardless, the car acted as if it was glued to the road. As far as power, after I do the head gasket and the rest of the fixes, I'm going turbo. And......if I don't wreck the car, after 500K I'm dropping the higher hp M104 engine in there....and if I can afford it, supercharging that. I've been told supercharging the M103 is problematic, but it's a natural for turbo.

I haven't had so much fun in a car for years and the 4matic gets me to any resort in the West with ease for snowboarding. It's a perfect car for me at this time of my life. I guess if I was one of the younger lions here, I'd be in pursuit of the Hammers, but it's a hell of a lot of fun to build a sleeper as well.

Kevin

[lkchris]

Originally Posted by 190E 16V

What do you guys think of your W124 compared to the newer generations of MB's?

Not one single thing about the W124s we used to own is better than the same thing on our W211.

If you think about racecars, specifically Indycars, you'll note that the old ones were "built like tanks" compared to the new ones. The new ones, of course are orders of magnitude safer and the same thing applies to Mercedes.

You haven't found money in the street and life isn't antiques roadshow.

[Real1shepherd]

Originally Posted by lkchris

Not one single thing about the W124s we used to own is better than the same thing on our W211.

If you think about racecars, specifically Indycars, you'll note that the old ones were "built like tanks" compared to the new ones. The new ones, of course are orders of magnitude safer and the same thing applies to Mercedes.

You haven't found money in the street and life isn't antiques roadshow.

You're living in 'fool's paradise' and MB's association with Chrysler just proved how far they could fall. Your statement about modern safety versus W124 safety is only true in the sense that cars have gotten safer in general to pass the five star safety tests. The W124's actually pioneered a lot of the safety features in cars that are still used today-hardly an "antique". Again, today it's bottom-line mentality and has nothing now to do with build excellence or road reliability. I invite you to read all the MB forums dedicated to the reliability woes of the W211 ilk. What else are you gonna say if you own one, that you made a mistake (?)...I doubt it. Conversely, I could buy a newer MB, but am put off by what I'm reading and the folks I know who virtually live at their dealers. If you got a perfect W211 and never have any problems with it, then I say you're one in ten thousand. I'm not taking those odds. I'm happy with my "antique".

Kevin

[Jimmy Chen Shib]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver500

The new cars are crap compared to the w124/w126 series vehicles PERIOD

The m113 was the last good motor they made from a reliability stand point but it is not even close in overall quality of the m119 and m104. There is way way too much plastic on the newer ones, and too much electronic unreliable junk. I don't think they ride as well or provide the feed back of the older cars. I wrenched on them for a few years and I would buy a w126 or w124 over any of the newer stuff (AMG being the exception). I don't get the warm, quality, conservative feeling from the new cars, more like a cheapo lexus/infinity feeling....The new cars are designed and built on a totally new set of ideals and goals than the old cars. I was going to buy a 2002 or 2001 E55 and after driving a 500E once never looked back and I will probably never sell it because everytime I get in it, it makes me smile. Its a little more maintenance and a little less performance, but I'll be damned if it isn't twice the car the w210 is.

To me they just don't stand out and scream excellence anymore, its purely a status symbol. I would bet you could take a 70s/80s Merc with a god awful service record, poorly maintained, even abused and drive it cross country without major incident. I doubt there is another car or maker anyone could make that claim of.

-Mike

May I humbly second your opinion. That is the exact reason that I cannot find a replacement for my '94 AMG E60 (124 body), going on my 13th years of ownership as the second owner. w/ smiles Jimmy PS. I read an article in this Japanese car magazine featuring one owner of 500E who surpassed soemthing like 350,000km and still happy w/ his car.

[RBYCC]

Originally Posted by lkchris

Not one single thing about the W124s we used to own is better than the same thing on our W211.

If you think about racecars, specifically Indycars, you'll note that the old ones were "built like tanks" compared to the new ones. The new ones, of course are orders of magnitude safer and the same thing applies to Mercedes.

You haven't found money in the street and life isn't antiques roadshow.

W211 is inferior quality wise to the 124 in many ways...
Let's start with the interior and move on to the drive train.

[optimizer]

Our garage has a 2006 S430, 1998 E320 and a 1993 300CE. Out of the 3, here's what I can tell you:

1) the 93 300CE is the most satisfactory in terms of build quality, reliability, personal satisfaction, materials, everything everything everything. It's reaching the 300,000km mark and is at the stage when it will likely need a bit of new replacement parts. The only thing that is apparently wrong now is the OVP is old style and connections may be bad and the blower motor is starting to squeak again (I took it out to put some grease but will just get a new one in this time). I also spend the most time babying this one, washing, touching up, etc etc etc.

2) the 98 E320 was an OK buying decision (bought when it was just over 1 yr old), but not the best one imho. Just nothing special about the car.
3) the '06 S430 is the most gizmo'd out from the 3, and I thought I would like all the techie stuff, but day in day out I keep taking the 300CE. We have a driveway that will fit 4 cars and yes, there have been times when I'd move the S430, E320 just to get to the 300CE. And I don't pick and choose which car to drive to keep mileage low / etc, I just drive whichever suits the mood.

Based on my experience, if I had to buy another car, I'd be in the market for either a 500E, w140 S600, or S500coupe... or if possible an AMG from the same era.

[tazz5150]

IMHO...
If I had the choice, I'd drive the newer car around. Looks nicer, and the Stereo is nicer! And, for the most part, the sun roof wouldn't be broken.
As i drove around my mom's '06 e320, I did notice several differences from my '95 e320.
From my limited knowledge, i'm sure the basic engine is the same, just added all the computer stuff and some (major) tweaking of the engine.
I'll have to admit, i like the way my older benz runs better than the new one. My benz feels "more" like a car. It's more brute. Where as the new one raises the rpm, before it starts to get off the line, it feels like the time when I was learning how to drive stick. My older benz would spin the wheels on second gear when I depress my gas pedal, the new one would just let the rpm go up and not let my wheels spin. It's a whole different animal.

I'm sure the smart people at benz did this on purpose, but it's just not for me. As other said that they feel more connected to their old benz, i'd have to agree.

Actually more that i think about it, I dont want the car doing the thinking for me. When i punch the gas, go hard damn it!!

[Saijin_Naib]

Turn TCS off in the new one and have some fun

[tazz5150]

Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib

Turn TCS off in the new one and have some fun

How do you do that? and, if you know how to do that on my old 95, that would be very helpful too..

thanks.

Actually, it would seem like the new one would not need tcs, because the launch is so soft. I'm sure it's the "comfort" setting, but as previous cars I have driven, the "sport" setting basically revs higher between shifting. I'm not sure of this for that new car is not mine. As for my mom, I don't think she cares much.

if you guys can direct me for the forum for degrading plastic for '95 benz, that would be appreciated.
I think that degrading of protective cover for wires screwed up my on board computer, the car does not run quite well, and heater is blowing with A/C.

[190E 16V]

Originally Posted by tazz5150

How do you do that? and, if you know how to do that on my old 95, that would be very helpful too..

thanks.

Actually, it would seem like the new one would not need tcs, because the launch is so soft. I'm sure it's the "comfort" setting, but as previous cars I have driven, the "sport" setting basically revs higher between shifting. I'm not sure of this for that new car is not mine. As for my mom, I don't think she cares much.

if you guys can direct me for the forum for degrading plastic for '95 benz, that would be appreciated.
I think that degrading of protective cover for wires screwed up my on board computer, the car does not run quite well, and heater is blowing with A/C.

If you are having issues with running and the wiring harness has never been done - do it now, and go from there.
It is 100% inevitable that they fail. The symptoms are varied and usually start off intermittently.

[Kestas]

Originally Posted by tazz5150

... if you guys can direct me for the forum for degrading plastic for '95 benz, that would be appreciated...

Got an hour?... this is for you, with all the excruciating detail:
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...d.php?t=128181

[cheupe]

The computer junk in newer cars is not the only problem. The w124 is a superior car (more reliable, more durable, more...(...feel free to insert any nice adjective you can think of here...). Not only that, but even among the w124s, the pre-1992 w124s are even more reliable than their '92-'95 brothers (sisters)...(engine wiring harness issues and so on...)

[Saijin_Naib]

More heavy, more slow, less nimble... Yes, they do have many more superlatives but it's not like the march of progress has stopped with the w124. The new cars certainly have their merits.

[Real1shepherd]

Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib

More heavy, more slow, less nimble... Yes, they do have many more superlatives but it's not like the march of progress has stopped with the w124. The new cars certainly have their merits.

In all fairness to that response; for the price of admission to a newer MB (and the mile-high nose club), I could supercharge, turbo charge or drop the higher hp, DOHC six engine into mine, supercharge that puppy, still pay way less than a newer MB and keep up with anything you have.

Kevin