MH434

I'm planning to buy a E320 CDI soon.
Should i buy with the new V6 or the old I6?
Can anyone tell me the difference between these two engines: Which is quieter, which runs smoother, powerdelivery......

Is the I6 engine identical from the day w211 was lunched to the day it was replaced with the V6 engine?

KosherBenz

Why a diesel engine is made of anything other than cast Iron, I am clueless. Useing a softer metal so you can adopt the 4matic system Ill stick to the I6, thanks...

Yes, 2005 and 2006 they are identical.

MH434

But is there any difference between the 2002 320CDI and the 2005 320CDI? (European models)

KosherBenz

ahh, over here on this side of the pond, its only been out since 05.

DerekACS

You asked some valid questions that deserve more than just a knee-jerk response.
Of course many current owners of the old I6 are going to tell you that their cast iron engine is superior.
If this really is the case, then why did MB spend buckets of $$$$$ to develop a new alloy V6 engine with cast iron cylinder liners, four valves per cylinder and double overhead cam ?
The "new" V6 has now been in production in Europe for three years. The benefits of this engine are several:

1. less weight: approx 35kg less over the front axle
2. more compact: engine postioned further aft to improve F/R weight distribution
3. higher horsepower and torque (210hp & 400 lb.ft v's 201 & 368 lb.ft)
4. much quieter and more responsive
5. flatter torque curve with 400 lb.ft @ 1600 rpm - 2400 rpm
6. much lower emissions
7. easier recyclability with alloy
8. durability to high stress

The last point was demonstrated by MB's high speed endurance test carried out @ Laredo, Texas in 2004. Three E Class V6 diesels ran 100,000 miles at an average speed of 139 mph; no engine problems encountered.

Then, last fall, 45 E Class V6s (3 Bluetecs included) made the trek from Paris to Beijing, a distance of 8500 miles over some very tough terrain.
All cars arrived in Beijing with no engine and or electrical faults encountered.

If you are interested in some Bluetec owner feedback, go to edmunds.com,
look up 2007 E Class and click "consumer reviews". You will find a number of very positive reports.

From my extensive review of the net including this forum and other MB forums, I have yet to read of one report of any Bluetec engine problem.

Finally, may I suggest that you drive both an E320CDI and an E320 Bluetec.
A test drive will demonstrate the substantial differences between the two cars in performance and handling dynamics.

silberrosa

The new V6 has a proven track record and has been used in ECE markets for several years. It is more powerful, quieter and smoother running. However, the main reason to go for the new V6 is the fact that you will get a MY07 car which includes the many benefits of the facelift. Keep in mind the MY07 facelift car is the one which just finished first in its class in the JDP IQS rating besting Lexus, BMW, Infiniti, Audi etc..... Therefore, all things being equal, I'd opt for the MY07 car which includes the new Bluetec V6.

johna1

Hi,

Having had both, I would definitely go with the newer V6. It feels more responsive (which is backed up by the performance figures), and also more refined with a better sound.

I am not sure if the 7 speed gearbox ever got shipped to the US with the old engine, but if not then that would be another big reason to go with the V6.

Germancar1

Brilliant post, thanks.

M

lkchris

The inline E320CDI was introduced in Europe in 1999 and the V6 E320CDI (actually only 3.0 l) was introduced in Europe in 2005, i.e. it's 6 years newer technology. To think it's not better in every way is simply silly.

(This is not to say that the old engine isn't fabulous, too.)

lkchris

The new engine has iron cylinder liners.

Alan Smithee

To the original poster: Seems like you're looking to buy used. Find the best combination of condition, price, color, and options...the V6 and I6 aren't different enough to rule out one or the other. Tests of US models are identical for both in terms of performance and economy, both are as smooth, quiet, and responsive as a gasoline car, and neither have any known major flaws.

mike82y

from what I have read the V6 CDI is lighter, more cost effective and most importantly its safer when the car crashes (both for the driver & pedestrian).

mike

Alan Smithee

The V6 is more cost effective for MB, which is why the I6 was replaced with a diesel version from the new modular engine/transmission family. It is inherently more efficient because it has the same performance from less displacement, but overall the 2007 US-spec E320 Bluetec is no lighter than the US-spec 2005-2006 E320 CDI.

As for safety, every crash is unique. It's possible that the longer, narrower, and slightly heavier I6 motor could be more of a hazard in a situation where the engine is pushed into the cabin...but we're talking about a very serious frontal impact that could be fatal regardless of the engine type. If that's a concern, replace the crappy standard 16" tires with some good medium-performance 17" wheels/tires...you'll save a few feet of braking distance and have a car that handles better to avoid such a disaster.

Germancar1

Good points, Alan.

M

traumatic

Engine design doesn't have nearly as much an effect on crash safety as does engineering of the crumple zones. The top rated cars in crash tests are across the board with engine design, layout, and front- vs. rear-wheel drive. Nowhere will you find that the inline 6 of a MB or BMW is less safe than the V-8 version of the same model. Likely, improvements in crash safety in 2007 models has more to do with seat, airbag, and cabin design changes than the engine.

As for pedestrian safety.... Hood and bumper design are the only factors. (think of cow catchers on old trains) Any pedestrian that has to rely on the crumple zone and amount of dead space behind the grill has lost the game.

lkchris

This is wishful thinking on your part, but not really the most relevant thing in comparing engines in any event.

DerekACS

This is true with the addition of "Presafe" and active head restraints.
Take a look at the latest Insurance Institute for Highway Safety ratings for E Class "rear crash protection".
It has the highest ratings, while the BMW 5 Series is given a "poor" rating.

Germancar1

What you're saying here is only partly true, getting a V8 or I6 car to crash same way as say a V6 model takes more engineering work on the part of the manufacturer, which is what the previous poster was getting at. That crumple zone has to take into account what type of engine is in the car so actually it does play a part in the grand scheme of making a car safe. Sure Mercedes (can't say the same for BMW lately) could make a V16 crash the same way as an I4, but at what cost is the issue. BMW is the only one left going the expensive route, yet arguably they haven't been so successful with several recent models getting less than great crash test scores. The 3-Series convertible being the latest BMW to not do so well.

Safety engineering has to take into account many, many things, things that you or I probably wouldn't even think about. This is why I still see Mercedes as being the safest cars on the road, as their engineers were testing and designing the cars for tests that no governement had a clue about. Rear impacts is just one example.

All those ugly headrests in Audis, Mercedes, and especially Volvos in the 80's were there for a reason. While you'll remember that all American and most Japanese car's headrests at the time and up until just recently were mere afterthoughts, usually winding up supporting the upper back/base of your neck rather than your head.

M

KosherBenz

we all know as cars evolve, its not always for the better. Usually to save money.

Another example, research the diffrences between the 94 to 95 mustang GT engines. Eveloution is not always better.

MH434

Thanks....
For me the 320 V6 will be a bit more expensive because of the high taxes in my country. For almost identical cars, the V6 will be 8k$ more expensive

How does the I6 compare to other brand diesels? Audi, BMW.....?

MH434

How does the I6 performe with the Kleemann Chip? Faster than a stock V6?
Is there any known reliability problems after tuning?
Is it possible to remove the particelfilter? Will it affect the performance of the car?

derek_cdi

Before I moved back to the US, I owned a 2000 BMW 530d with the I6 engine. I loved this car, the engine was fantastic, even though it "only" had 180hp it felt more powerful than my E320 (I6) because it had a 5 speed manual transmission. When I sold the car it had 145,000 km on it and still got 6.3-6.7l/km it was a wonderful engine that I wish was available here in the US.

lkchris

American "iron" experience is insteresting but not so relevant to Mercedes.

In Mercedes' market if new models aren't good, the company suffers.

BudC

I just got my BMW Magazine and the 3.0 liter turbo diesel 335d sedan that BMW will import in 2008 as a 2009 model produces 282 hp and 428 lb.ft. of torque. It will do 0-62 in 5.0 seconds flat.

It uses a small turbo followed by a larger turbo to eliminate turbo lag and has a straight six aluminum block.

The 335d is 0.6 seconds faster to 60 than the red hot 335i gasoline turbo.

DerekACS

My understanding is that this engine will first appear in the X5, although the horsepower for NA will drop by about 10% compared to Euro version, similar drop for the E320 V6 with the Bluetec add ons.