MBWorld.org Editors

Hey everyone,

Now Lexus vs. Mercedes, that has been the Frazier vs. Ali and Celtics vs. Lakers luxury sedan heavyweight battle for some time now here in the states.
Do you consider Lexus as a perpetual contender? Are they actually a match for Mercedes, or another one of those "luxury alternatives"? If you have driven one, how did your Lexus experience compare with that of a Mercedes?


If you missed the article, find it here: https://mbworld.org/comparison/post_9.php

Thanks.

K-A

The GS350 seems to try much harder than the E, but just looks way more bland than the more effortless M-B offering. When the 1st gen GS came out it made a lot of noise, this new one just seems neither here nor there, hasn't made a big footprint, doesn't outsell the more expensive E, etc.

I personally credit that to two major things (amongst various smaller ones): People are still willing to pay more to drive a "Mercedes", and the E-Class is far more attractive and doesn't get boring or tiring to look at as fast.

Dema

This is 2010 forum, so this comparision has no sense. It is also inaccurate, at least E class fuel tank capacity looks wrong.

K-A

I noticed some inaccuracies as well, such as the obvious thing of it being in the W212 Forum, and in the article they referred to it as a "C350" once.

mike vee

lexus has nothing on benz.

SolidGranite

I own the GS350 and pretty much hate it. Trying like hell to get in to an '09 E350 now. The only kicker Lexus has is a much better V6. More power and better fuel economy but that is where it stops for me. The GS is a total rattle trap.

rieger

I actually have both these cars except my E-Class is an E500 instead of the E350. Both are actually wonderful cars and the E class design in my opinion will definitely stand the test of time much better. The E-class suspension is also better so is the handling on stock tires but once the Lexus is tired properly than it does handle just as nice but rides a little harsher than the E500 airmatic system. The GS430/450 has the airmatic also, but mine is a GS350 so not sure in that aspect. I did test the GS430 and the airmatic does not feel as nice as the E class though. The E-Class feels also a little more solid going over bumps and more stable on the highways when going over 150km/h anything under 150km/h and it is pretty even. In the city the GS350 is much more nimble than the E500 and feels much quicker. The E500 feels a little sluggish unless you are mashing on the gas pedal while the GS350 just gets up and go.The interior of the GS feels much cozier and more sporty but would prefer the interior of the E on long trips. The GS is definitely much more reliable and things just work without any problems.
In General:
Design - E
Suspension - E
Chassis - E
Handling - GS - sportier ; luxury - E
Interior - toss up short trips city - GS ; long trips highway - E
reliability - GS
Cost of ownership - GS
Dealership experience - definitely Lexus

If the choice is between the GS350 and a E350 than my answer would definitely be the GS350 since the power and suspension rides nicer than the E350. But when the choice is GS350 or GS450 against the E500/E550 then I would choose the E500/550 because the airmatic suspension is better in the E and also the power pickup is fairly equal.

rieger

They actually have a kit to fix the rattle of the dash on the GS depending on the year of your car. If yours is pre 07 than the kit doesn't work so well but if it is after 07 model year than it fixed the rattles fine on my car.

bzliteyear

i've sat in a GS350 a few times for casual carpool, and i don't think the rear seats are very comfortable. in fact, as a 6-footer, i think it's difficult to get in/out w/o hitting one's head against the door seal. i know some people like the "coupe" look of this four door style, but practically speaking, it's not very efficient. the E also has more comfort/leg room E-class than the GS in both the front/rear seats - i don't care what the specifications say.
Patrick

1SICKLEX

Great fair review

K-A

This is totally O/T here, but is the Camry basically an ES underneath all its clothes? I was looking at the Camry's IIHS Safety scores and it said the results also apply to the ES, i.e they're pretty much the same car under the skin.

Vik888

You have it backwards.

The ES is just a fancy Camry. So an ES is basically a Camry "underneath all its clothes."

A Mercedes is a Mercedes.

Let the debate continue.

K-A

LOL, yeah I'm an idiot, I meant it the other way around It's obviously the Camry's underpinnings with ES gussy.

rieger

There is no debate here as the ES is definitely a Toyota Camry. I drove the ES before purchasing the GS and let me tell you that the ES is a piece of cr@p. It definitely doesn't drive like any of the other Lexus cars but it sells well because for a little more cash their are more luxury items than the Camry. But in my books it is definitely a Camry with some changes in luxury and sound insulation.
Each car really has it's benefits in which a short test drive will not reveal (GS vs E350).
With the new E-class looking not so svelte I think I will try neither of these two brands but go with a 2009-2010 Audi A6 instead. The ride is a little stiffer than the Lexus but almost the same or even a little softer than the MB. But the interior is beautiful. The new 3.0T engine feels like the E500 but sucks less gas.

rieger

Hey LEX was looking at your sig and noticed that you say you love AMG cars but give Audi's RS cars and BMW M cars a go and you will find that they are better cars. The AMG has a great engine but sucks gas like crazy and they have horrible handling compared to the RS and M cars. The RS6 my favorite because it is the fastest, has the best interior and exterior matches the E63 in looks. The M handles the best but the exterior and interior in my book is not up to par. While the E63 has a great interior and exterior but the handling is sub par. Just like the c63 it has a great engine but can't put the power down and feels like a caddy in the corners.
I don't have these cars personally before someone says something but I do have a friend who has the E63 and another who has the M5. So I have driven both of these on a track at the same time. The RS6 I have not driven but look up some reviews and you will see that it is a great car.

1SICKLEX

I love the S/RS/M cars as well. THey all bring their own personalities to the table. Now Lexus has "F", Jag has their "R", Caddy their "V", its just a great time to be an automobile enthusiast.

Barry45RPM

Lets not forget that the 211 is also in many parts of the world, a lowly TAXI/Police Car, ala Ford Crown Vic/Mercury Grand Marquis... so it too is only a car.

K-A

I do think it's pretty unacceptable to pay ES pricing for something that is engineered as a car intended at a 17K base price starting point.

Vik888

Won't argue with you there but The ES is a Camry upgraded.

The taxi's in Europe that are E's are DOWNGRADED, i.e. my E550 is not a E220 Taxi from Paris upgraded.

Huge difference.

lig

WTF does this whole Camry discussion have to do with the E350 vs. GS?

K-A

Well since we've already gone O/T, I'd like to add that I sat in an LS model at the L.A Auto Show, and was very surprised at how cheap the interior seemed to me. The buttons, etc. had a typical Japanese car light and chintzy feel to them, attention to detail wasn't all that great, etc. When comparing it to Luxury offerings from Europe, it just lacks that extra workmanship.

Although it's obvious they focus on the bigger picture, making the car reliable and last, comfy and quiet (when it isn't rattling, i.e GS) etc. That's all great, etc. But if I'm spending M-B money, I want M-B detail and nit-picking build-quality.

bzliteyear

i agree that LS has gone down hill as well...and Lexus is doing what MB and BWM are doing w/ plastic parts and cheap looking interior in all but the $100k range cars. i think MB has stepped up on the S class interior on the recent redesign, but even on the prior generation i thot the interior was weak for $100k car. this goes try for my friend's 2007 M5 interior. I think it wasn't until the $140k CL63 that i thot the interior was nice, it should be that way even for $75k cars, imho.
PL

FraKctured

Before I bought my second Mercedes, I drove quite a few Lexus and Infiniti, different models (I was looking for an SUV, but I drove both sedans and SUVs). I visited Lexus and Infiniti first, thinking that I would find something to compare favorably with my Mercedes. I was stunned at how disappointed I was with their cars and SUVs. They felt light, flimsy, and cheap in comparison to my lowly C230. After test driving about a dozen vehicles, I found an ML320 and took it for a spin. It was head and shoulders above the Japanese cars--tight, better handling, more flexibility, heavier, more powerful, and a better array of safety features.

No comparison. I bought the ML and it has been incredibly reliable and solid. I won't bother with the Lexus/Infiniti ever again. Much ado about nothing.

no_clue

MB has 100+ years of history, its "STATUS" is virtually untoucheable.

HOWEVER, Lexus introduced in early 90, let along it is Toyota, its "image" is pretty much side by side w/ MB and BMW in less than 20 years.

LS400, at first, known to compete with same-class as E, and 5 series. ( many auto magazine in early 90s test compare LS400 w/ 400E and 535i ) But now.... "LS" image is very much "higher" than E-Class by general public.

Late 90s, Honda, Toyota introduced hybrid motors. Big-3 were laugh their pants off with Japan's "innovation". hmm.......

I guess what I am trying to say is...... I love my MB, but it does need more than a 3-point-star on the hood for me to buy it again.

1SICKLEX

Why are you bringing up the ES? This is about the GS and E class. So its acceptable to drive a taxi? (see what I did there)



The E class is a fantastic car. The ES is one as well. Both have target markets. We all know the E class is the superior car and it should be, it costs more and its engineered to be in the class above the ES.