Ouch. Jeremy Clarkson (Top Gear) Reviews the W212 and HATES it....

[K-A]

I don't agree with his perception of how the car drives, nor what M-B is trying to accomplish with the driving characteristics (not meant to be a Sports Sedan), but I gotta say he must have been reading my rants about the styling and M-B's new direction or something. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/dri...cle6717935.ece "There’s a curious and extremely ugly styling detail on the rear wings of the new Mercedes E-class. It’s a crease that sets off from the back end with much purpose and drive, but when it reaches the door, it sort of gives up and, like the Okavango river, meanders about before giving up on the idea of existing in the first place. One thing is for sure. It serves no purpose. It will make the car no faster, no more stable at speed and no more economical. And it’s not a traditional Mercedes thing either — it’s not like the BMW Hofmeister kink in the rear window, which is present on all models. Mercedes says, apparently, it added the crease as a nod to some model in the company’s dim and murky past. Probably the one Hitler drove. But this makes no sense really. When I buy a new iPod, I don’t want it to look even remotely like my grandfather’s gramophone player. So why should I want my new car to have a feature from the days of running boards? And, anyway, no one is going to say: “Ah so. I see you’ve hinted at the 1942 Doogleburger model with that crease on the flank.” They’re just going to do what I did: spend hours wondering if Mercedes has the first idea about form and function. I dislike conspiracy theories. The smug, self-satisfied, arms-crossed demeanour of those who would have us believe that Neil Armstrong didn’t walk on the moon or indeed anywhere more exciting than a sound stage in Nevada invariably fills me with an uncontrollable need to set them on fire. We see the same sort of thing with Top Gear fan sites on the internet. Every single thing we do is analysed and then dismissed as fake. All the races are staged. Every word is scripted. Every opinion bought and paid for. Recently a deer ran out while I was belting down the runway in a Mercedes. The shot was included in the film and, immediately, the boys were at their keyboards. “Aha,” they said, “the car wasn’t moving. Television jiggery-pokery has been used.” Honestly, chaps. If we were going to spend a fortune CGI-ing something onto the screen, we’d blow Richard Hammond’s head off. Or detonate Belgium. Certainly, it’d be something a bit more exciting than a horned rat running about on an airfield. Nevertheless, despite all this, I don’t believe the crease in the E-class was there from the get-go. I may be wrong, of course. But in my mind the stylists did the car and then thought: “Oh dear. That’s a bit boring. Let’s put a styling detail on the rear wings to distract people from the tedium.” Think of it, then, as one of Jon Snow’s ties. There are more problems with this car. I tested the E 500, which has a 5.5‑litre V8 engine. That means 382 horsepowers and 391 torques. It means 0-62mph in 5.2sec and, you’d think, plenty of excitement. However, there is none. I have experienced more interesting drizzle. No matter how brutal you may be with the seven-speed gearbox, it is extremely reluctant to put down its paper, extinguish its pipe, change out of its slippers and actually go. Kickdown provokes a reluctant surge of sorts and if you go right to the bottom of the throttle pedal’s travel, right through the carpet and into the firewall itself, the surge becomes a bit more meaty. But if this car could talk, and you did that, it would say: “Oh, for God’s sake.” Seriously, asking this car to behave like a 5.5-litre V8 super-saloon is like asking a man to empty a dishwasher. It’s technically possible but only if you are prepared to put up with a lot of harrumphing. I wouldn’t mind, but the engine — the only one in the line-up not changed from the previous model — is either silent or making a strained noise you don’t want to hear. There are other things too. The steering is inert. The brakes feel as uninterested as the engine, and the ride, on air suspension, is disappointing at low speeds. On the move, it’s fine, or even good, but around town, which is where this car will spend most of its time, picking up Cilla Black from functions, it’s as jittery as the Jag XF I recently tested (of which, more next week). There is, then, absolutely no point in buying the 500 version of this car. You may as well have the diesel, which is less powerful but much more economical and, in the real world, every bit as fast. But if you are going to buy a mid-range diesel saloon, then the E-class simply doesn’t hold a candle to the Jag. Normally, with a Mercedes, you feel that everything is there for a reason. With the E-class you have that crease on the rear wing — which isn’t — and a lot of things on the options list that border, I suspect, on being a bit gimmicky. Certainly, if you specified everything, you’d have a car that would buzz and beep and bong more than Apollo 13 after the oxygen tank exploded. This is a car that can read speed limits and alert you if you break them, that uses radar to decide how much braking force you should use, that spots pedestrians in the dark, that knows about traffic jams ahead and cars that are overtaking in your blind spot and walls that you are about to reverse into. This is a car that shouts at you if you take your seatbelt off or open the door or leave your key in the ignition. And if you shout back, it will respond without fuss or murmur. Individually, some of these things are interesting. Some might even be worth specifying. But combined, they’d drive you mad. The upshot is that the new E‑class is not as good as the Jaguar XF or the BMW 5-series. It doesn’t look good, it’s boring and, worse than that, it probably signals that the end of the road for the four-door saloon car is not very far away. Mercedes has always been the company to which we turn for the next bright idea. It was first with internal combustion and first with antilock brakes and first, frankly, with everything in between. But all I see on the E-class is a rounding-off of the edges. A bit of fiddling with an idea that’s out of steam. In the olden days, the four-door saloon was the only real choice for the consumer. It sat in our lives like fish and chips and the Post Office and British Rail tea. What do you mean, you want a skinny latte? Or an Earl Grey? Or a curry? Or O2? Or a Mac? Choice hadn’t been invented. So you had a Cortina. Now, though, the family man or woman can have an MPV or a mini MPV or an SUV or a drop-top or an estate or a four-seater coupé. And every single one of these alternatives is better than the traditional three-box idea. It’s very difficult, as Porsche has just proved with the Panamera, to make a four-door car sexy. And it’s very difficult to think of any new way of making the drive feel different or better than it was in the previous model. Yes, you might find an extra 2mm of legroom here and a slight cut in carbon dioxides there. But, really, the genre is advancing like world records in athletics. A tiny bit at a time towards a moment when going any faster or making things any better will be simply impossible. Mercedes has always shown us the way forward. But with the new E-class it has shown us that we’re at the end of the line. Some day, then, all saloon cars will be this dull." Verdict: 1 Star (Out Of 5)

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[LaicepsYdobon]

Thanks for posting the article. Not really surprised; Jeremy is known to be harsh of all cars that are German.

[K-A]

Originally Posted by LaicepsYdobon

Thanks for posting the article. Not really surprised; Jeremy is known to be harsh of all cars that are German.

Yeah, he seems to be a riot. I haven't followed him much, but I saw a comment on one of the Sites that said he usually loves M-B models?

LMAO at that "probably the one that Hitler drove" comment.

[LaicepsYdobon]

He's got an SL 55 AMG that he loves. He calls anyone who drives a Benz an "arse" (including himself) and anyone who drives a BMW a "c**k". I think his car reviews are great for entertainment value but not good if you are actually looking for anything of value when deciding to purchase a particular car.

He does have some very entertaining comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaZExdTHHjY&fmt=18

[K-A]

Originally Posted by LaicepsYdobon

He's got an SL 55 AMG that he loves. He calls anyone who drives a Benz an "arse" (including himself) and anyone who drives a BMW a "c**k". I think his car reviews are great for entertainment value but not good if you are actually looking for anything of value when deciding to purchase a particular car.

He does have some very entertaining comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaZExdTHHjY&fmt=18

Haha, nice. Yeah it seems entertainment based, but I like when people can just tell it like they feel or how they see it, sans being diplomatic. I just kind of felt like he had a similar take on the styling as I did/do, and just is verbalizing it pretty brutally, lol. Obviously I'm sure that if I read up on some of his stuff (gonna check out that Video right now), I wouldn't share many of the same opinions though.

[220S]

Despite what he says about German cars he seems to love the CLK63 AMG Black Series..... (and he once said the C63 is like having an angry ferret in your pants.....) He hates Porsches, too.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/T...ack_169096.htm

[clanosiris]

he also love cls amg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbEZXuReC3U

[K-A]

He seeded to like the C63 too. Seems he definitely likes certain Benzes.

[220S]

Originally Posted by K-A

He seeded to like the C63 too. Seems he definitely likes certain Benzes.

He does seem to like the AMGs. One of his all time favorites is the CLS55. Although he said he now prefers the 63 NA motor (and the 7-speed tranny) over the blown 55.

Reading some of his other reviews he also says he "hates to admit it," but the E63 AMG is a "better bet" over the BMW M5.

But he's definitely not keen on the regular E Class:
"You would certainly never take this car out for fun, and you would never drive it in an enthusiastic fashion either. You’d cruise into town, park and then cruise home again, wondering if perhaps you might have been better off on the bus. If it were a colour it’d be beige. If it were food it would be lettuce."

[K-A]

Hah.

He does seem to see this W212 as a sign, and the end of innovation by M-B in a sense. These quips are particularly harsh::

"Mercedes has always shown us the way forward. But with the new E-class it has shown us that we’re at the end of the line. Some day, then, all saloon cars will be this dull."

"The upshot is that the new E‑class is not as good as the Jaguar XF or the BMW 5-series. It doesn’t look good, it’s boring and, worse than that, it probably signals that the end of the road for the four-door saloon car is not very far away."

[K-A]

Originally Posted by 220S

Despite what he says about German cars he seems to love the CLK63 AMG Black Series..... (and he once said the C63 is like having an angry ferret in your pants.....) He hates Porsches, too.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/T...ack_169096.htm

Um, yeah that Video makes me want a CLK BS. I'm sure especially now that the "CLK" is discontinued, that will be a helluva collectible and classic. I don't like the look of the CLK much but it looks pretty damn good with the BS dazzling.

The quality of the whole Test: art, direction, music and all is really top notch, quality stuff, I'm assuming that can't be cheap to produce.... Interesting to know a car show (presumably) is successful enough to afford such expenses.

[DCist]

Jaguar is hurting a lot right now. Recent PR stunts to divert attention from the fact that their models' fascia looks Buicky paid back a little. Clarkson helped.... TopGear skilfully "did not notice" such attributes.

Clarkson is a shrewd guy - he really does like MB...but he also knows that TATA is banking enormously on the all new XJ...whose rear btw produced bursts of laughter around the globe when it was finally shown. He also knows that TATA needs stable XF sales.

He is also a proud Brit. Jag is a tradition in Britain. Any innuendos that Jag is failing or is going in the wrong direction or has relevant German competition hurt as much if not more than VW's takeover of Bentley and BMW's takeover of Rolls.

This time around gloves are off completely. He will dog any car that could potentially cause competition problems for Jaguar. In this case E class must be his primary target because it is really the only MB class that can divert customers away from XF or even XJ.

To the prolific dilettante know on this board as K-A:

Dream on baby....dream on. If you think Clarkson somehow "validated" your sense of style with his rant it does not mean you have any.

[rieger]

Originally Posted by K-A

Hah.

He does seem to see this W212 as a sign, and the end of innovation by M-B in a sense. These quips are particularly harsh::

"Mercedes has always shown us the way forward. But with the new E-class it has shown us that we’re at the end of the line. Some day, then, all saloon cars will be this dull."

"The upshot is that the new E‑class is not as good as the Jaguar XF or the BMW 5-series. It doesn’t look good, it’s boring and, worse than that, it probably signals that the end of the road for the four-door saloon car is not very far away."

I just drove the Jaguar XFR and he is definitely right on this account. The XFR is an amazing car. The interior is the nicest of the bunch with the stitching and layout. The drive is also great in the XFR, nice ride in the city and from most of the reviews I have read the handling is very close to the M5. With the 500+hp engine we are talking M5, and E63 0-60 times as well.
Main problem with Jaguar is when you take it in for a service you feel like you just bought a ford because the dealership is not up to the MB dealership experience.

[AsianML]

Jeremy usually loves Mercedes. He had an SL55 and an SLK55 and now has a 600 Grosser and CLK63 BS. He has referred to the CLK BS constantly the past season. If you've seen his reviews on the MB models he drives he usually falls in love with them.

[220S]

Originally Posted by DCist

He is also a proud Brit. Jag is a tradition in Britain. Any innuendos that Jag is failing or is going in the wrong direction or has relevant German competition hurt as much if not more than VW's takeover of Bentley and BMW's takeover of Rolls.

This time around gloves are off completely. He will dog any car that could potentially cause competition problems for Jaguar. In this case E class must be his primary target because it is really the only MB class that can divert customers away from XF or even XJ.

Yeah, I agree totally that he is 'protecting' Brit heritage with the Jag. On the other hand, he hates all regular E Class models (except AMG.) For him it's a boring car. He's said it many times over and long before Jaguar was sold.

Most of the automotive press reports the same: the E Class is boring to drive (but still rank it very high as a four door sedan choice) in comparison with what else is out there. And they have a point. It's not an enthusiast's car. It's a very competent and well-made sedan. And remember, Clarkson is the 'power loving' guy of the three. He did lament that the Jag didn't have "enough horses."

fwiw, I quickly got bored with my 2009 E350 and ended up with a 2009 E63. But I come from a long history of performance car ownership. I just made a mistake with the E350. It's still a good all around basic cruising car.

[Franman]

ROFL at his review of the R-class:

"What is the point of a car that takes up four spaces all on its own, but has no space in the back for so much as an after-dinner mint. "

"how much dog can you get into 200 litres? The front half of an Irish wolfhound? So what do you do with the rest? Leave it at home?"

"This, contrary to my earlier reports, is not an estate, it is a 4x4. And not a very good one. You’re better off buying a condom."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/dri...icle707812.ece

[K-A]

Originally Posted by DCist

Jaguar is hurting a lot right now. Recent PR stunts to divert attention from the fact that their models' fascia looks Buicky paid back a little. Clarkson helped.... TopGear skilfully "did not notice" such attributes.

Clarkson is a shrewd guy - he really does like MB...but he also knows that TATA is banking enormously on the all new XJ...whose rear btw produced bursts of laughter around the globe when it was finally shown. He also knows that TATA needs stable XF sales.

He is also a proud Brit. Jag is a tradition in Britain. Any innuendos that Jag is failing or is going in the wrong direction or has relevant German competition hurt as much if not more than VW's takeover of Bentley and BMW's takeover of Rolls.

This time around gloves are off completely. He will dog any car that could potentially cause competition problems for Jaguar. In this case E class must be his primary target because it is really the only MB class that can divert customers away from XF or even XJ.

To the prolific dilettante know on this board as K-A:

Dream on baby....dream on. If you think Clarkson somehow "validated" your sense of style with his rant it does not mean you have any.

Hmm, I think he was speaking about you when he spoke of those who fuddle around with "conspiracy theories" about him. Whatever makes you sleep better in regards to trying to invalidate his opinion toward the W212 E-Class.

He obviously wouldn't like a regular E, probably any generation of a regular E, and I'm sure he loves Jag. But this man knows more about cars than any of us, he has seat time many can dream of, etc. I think of myself as being able to pin-point a good design when I see one, and I think his dismay with what M-B did with the 212, and what it represents for their future (design-wise) was/is similar to mine. At the same time, he has proven he does like M-B's a ton.... The 3 lettered powerful ones.

[mbchris]

Clarkson's columns are more like editorials than in depth reviews. For example - notice the lack of pricing or specification information.

His focus is less on information, rather entertainment. So pull out what you deem valuable and pertinent, and draw your own conclusions.

Otherwise, enjoy and be entertained. Isn't that the main goal? Plenty of other sources for car reviews. Every medium has it's objective.

[MADCAT]

Originally Posted by Franman

ROFL at his review of the R-class:

"What is the point of a car that takes up four spaces all on its own, but has no space in the back for so much as an after-dinner mint. "

"how much dog can you get into 200 litres? The front half of an Irish wolfhound? So what do you do with the rest? Leave it at home?"

"This, contrary to my earlier reports, is not an estate, it is a 4x4. And not a very good one. You’re better off buying a condom."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/dri...icle707812.ece

Agreed. R Class is a POS.

[K-A]

I finally saw one on the road the other day (still surprised as I haven't seen any others), it took me about 2 minutes from behind to figure out if it was a Camry or a 212. I do this everytime I see a (especially the new '10 face-lifted) Camry now, I get excited thinking it's a new E, then realize it's not upon getting closer.

Of course the E's rear is more squared, formal, and crisp, but to a regular person I'll bet they'd see them as about identical.

Great thing is, the car looks a lot less "messy" when you see it on the road, and doesn't look bad to me or anything, just doesn't have that same M-B class that others have had, it looks very proper, "business", formal, crisp/square etc, as well pretty aggressive (from the front), but lacks that monolithic nature of past M-B Sedans. However even with all these different mixed in elements, it just comes across looking normal and generic-ish in person, like it truly "blends in" with so many other cars. The side profile looks a bit too "smooshed" too, I think they took the narrow window thing a tad too far toward the very back of the rear doors, gives it an awkward profile in a way.

[AsianML]

I ran across a Metallic Pearl Beige E350 yesterday while I was at orientation for University of Michigan. I still don't think it's ugly and I actually thought it looked okay in that color (I normally hate beige/tan exterior colors). There's no mistaking that rear for a Camry's IMO. Even my friend who is as non-car of a person as you can get knew it wasn't Toyota, much less Camry.

[220S]

Originally Posted by AsianML

I ran across a Metallic Pearl Beige E350 yesterday while I was at orientation for University of Michigan. I still don't think it's ugly and I actually thought it looked okay in that color (I normally hate beige/tan exterior colors). There's no mistaking that rear for a Camry's IMO. Even my friend who is as non-car of a person as you can get knew it wasn't Toyota, much less Camry.

No, it's not so much Camry. Try Lexus 460 or Hyundai Sonata.

I saw another one in the Pacific Palisades today. Parked at Norris Hardware. I had to take a second look to realize it was a W212. It was a 550 W212 (with Michigan plates, btw. Probably a brass hat car.)

It used to be an instant recognition of any Benz on the road. With the W212 it's not as recognizable. And this is NOT because it's a new model we may not yet be familiar with, but because it blends in much more with other cars out there now than in the past.

I have nothing against the car, other than that rear end. There's a reason why it's so controversial. It's not just me or a few oddballs talking about it. Why is that butt mentioned in just about every review, website, and forum? It's not a coincidence.

And MB knows it. They read everything. And if they think it might reflect negatively on sales, there will be an early facelift (butt lift) Trust me.

[K-A]

Originally Posted by 220S

No, it's not so much Camry. Try Lexus 460 or Hyundai Sonata.

I saw another one in the Pacific Palisades today. Parked at Norris Hardware. I had to take a second look to realize it was a W212. It was a 550 W212 (with Michigan plates, btw. Probably a brass hat car.)

It used to be an instant recognition of any Benz on the road. With the W212 it's not as recognizable. And this is NOT because it's a new model we may not yet be familiar with, but because it blends in much more with other cars out there now than in the past.

I have nothing against the car, other than that rear end. There's a reason why it's so controversial. It's not just me or a few oddballs talking about it. Why is that butt mentioned in just about every review, website, and forum? It's not a coincidence.

And MB knows it. They read everything. And if they think it might reflect negatively on sales, there will be an early facelift (butt lift) Trust me.

I agree with everything basically there. I'll bet the F.L will really shape the car up better. I too had to really do a double or triple take to really make sure it was the new Benz.

I don't think it looks all that ugly or anything either, however it doesn't have that distinction it used too. I think M-B are drawing from different design inspirations this time around to Sell this one.... i.e trying to get the point across to people that this thing will be Reliable, by making it look similar to some Japanese counterparts.... At least more-so than yesteryears M-B's. At the same time they mix in the aggressive aspects (also done by Japanese for a while now), and I think the looks are so polarizing because some people see it more-so for it's aggressive and crisp aspects, and some for its relatively boring/blended in and square ones.

Also, I dunno, it looks Camry-esque to me from the back, however there are countless other cars I can name which I think it can loosely resemble from the back too.

220S, how many have you seen now? I don't know why but I have (almost literally) seen NONE on the streets.... At least less than I have when other new M-B/BMW's first started flooding the Dealers.

[LaicepsYdobon]

I agree with you guys. My problem with all of the newer Benzes is that they have no road presence. They just seem to blend into the crowd as apposed to older models which distinguish themselves from other cars and stand out.

[mbnj]

IMO way too much time spent talking about a crease. He does not drive cars for the electronics which has become an increasingly significant area for focus and advancement but does drive for the sheer joy of the sensual aspects of acceleration, sound, instantaneous response which is what you are going to get a lot less of in daily riders inluding the standard V-8's.

He can say what he likes about Jag's but they are effectively dead in the US market and I saw very few of them this summer in Europe (continental). I like the show but not because of any buyer information I get from it.