cross shopping E550 coupe and audi S5

[K-A]

Damn congrats man! By far the best choice!

To remove this ad, register today or login if you already are registered!

[gaazmon]

Originally Posted by jbrinkley

it's not here yet. next week probably.

Congrats and a very smart move IMO. Enjoy my friend

[rieger]

Originally Posted by 220S

Audi needs a lot of help in their engine department. They're still in the stone age by comparison with the rest of the bunch. Underwhelming indeed.

Ahhh do you know what you are talking about? Evidently not. Audi has the 3.0T which is a supercharged 3.0liter V6 and with just a chip it will have the S5 do 0-60mph in 4.6 which is almost a full second faster than the E550 coupe. And even though the 4.2 V8 only has 333hp it still produces more hp/L of displacement than the 5.5 V8 of MB.
Get the S5 and chip it and you will have a car that is more pleasing to look at from the interior and exterior and it will be faster once you chip it. And you don't have to have an italian car to have curves on your car. I really don't get it when someone says the awkward early adoption period of a new model introduction. Do you say the same about a Ferrari or a pretty women. NO you just love the shape, you don't have to look at it a million times before you appreciate the figure.

[220S]

Originally Posted by rieger

Ahhh do you know what you are talking about? Evidently not. Audi has the 3.0T which is a supercharged 3.0liter V6 and with just a chip it will have the S5 do 0-60mph in 4.6 which is almost a full second faster than the E550 coupe. And even though the 4.2 V8 only has 333hp it still produces more hp/L of displacement than the 5.5 V8 of MB.
Get the S5 and chip it and you will have a car that is more pleasing to look at from the interior and exterior and it will be faster once you chip it. And you don't have to have an italian car to have curves on your car. I really don't get it when someone says the awkward early adoption period of a new model introduction. Do you say the same about a Ferrari or a pretty women. NO you just love the shape, you don't have to look at it a million times before you appreciate the figure.

No, I'm stupid. I don't know much. Guess it's genetics.

Yeah, okay let's just tune everything out there. That solves it. Duh.

On the other hand, I don't know what you're talking about in the last four sentences of your post, so let's just call the whole thing a failure to communicate.

[rieger]

Originally Posted by 220S

No, I'm stupid. I don't know much. Guess it's genetics.

Yeah, okay let's just tune everything out there. That solves it. Duh.

On the other hand, I don't know what you're talking about in the last four sentences of your post, so let's just call the whole thing a failure to communicate.

Got to love how people only answer part of thread and not the whole thread. What about the 4.2 V8 then genius. That is not chipped and still produces more hp/l then the 5.5l V8 of the MB.
And what problems do you have with tuning? What do you think Brabus and Carlson etc. do for MB. Dinan does it for BMW and Porsche. Like another poster already said turbo charging and supercharging will be the future and if you are not taking advantage of respected aftermarket tuners than you are stupid. Most of these tuners have been in business for a long long time without any problems like blowing up engines etc. and some like Dinan are even manufacturer approved so that warranty is not affected or is provided through Dinan.

[220S]

Originally Posted by rieger

Got to love how people only answer part of thread and not the whole thread. What about the 4.2 V8 then genius. That is not chipped and still produces more hp/l then the 5.5l V8 of the MB.
And what problems do you have with tuning? What do you think Brabus and Carlson etc. do for MB. Dinan does it for BMW and Porsche. Like another poster already said turbo charging and supercharging will be the future and if you are not taking advantage of respected aftermarket tuners than you are stupid. Most of these tuners have been in business for a long long time without any problems like blowing up engines etc. and some like Dinan are even manufacturer approved so that warranty is not affected or is provided through Dinan.

As I said, I'm just stupid. You're absolutely right. I totally agree with everything you have said. I know nothing. It's embarrassing. Who is Carlson [sic]? Dinan is actually a Porsche tuner now? Wow, I had no idea. Thanks for the heads-up!

I should take advantage of these "tuners" you mention. Yes, very good idea. I never thought of that. Thanks. I'll will tune my AMG and my Porsche.

I can't remember if I was positioning the 4.2 against the 5.5 MB V8. Hmm? I thought I just said Audi in general. Oh well, I also have dementia and my memory is slipping. Thanks for pointing that out!

This forum needs more informative members like you. Thanks for the tips

[gaazmon]

Originally Posted by rieger

Got to love how people only answer part of thread and not the whole thread. What about the 4.2 V8 then genius. That is not chipped and still produces more hp/l then the 5.5l V8 of the MB.
And what problems do you have with tuning? What do you think Brabus and Carlson etc. do for MB. Dinan does it for BMW and Porsche. Like another poster already said turbo charging and supercharging will be the future and if you are not taking advantage of respected aftermarket tuners than you are stupid. Most of these tuners have been in business for a long long time without any problems like blowing up engines etc. and some like Dinan are even manufacturer approved so that warranty is not affected or is provided through Dinan.

LOL. Ok... The 4.2 V8 more than the MB 5.5 V8. Uh... NO. The 5.5 V8 in the 550's produce 382 hp and 390 torque (even the old 55 N/A V8 produced 350+ hp with 360+ torque). Last I checked 382 is more than 333. Besides that 4.2L V8 gets like 12-13 mpg in city, it's not a good engine compared to BMW and MB ones in that category (I looked at one once, it was the engine). The C63 gets like 11-12 in the city and an E63 gets like 13 in the city. The MB V12TT that produce 500+ hp get that same mileage as the S4. I wonder who has the better engine then? The only impressive engines Audi has are the V10's and hmmm... I wonder if they were pulled from a "Italian bull", if you guys get what I mean??? Even the R8 only pulls 420hp for. They're behind with engines and they can't even develop a true V12, they have to stick two V6's next to each other.

MB and BMW has always dominated the engines. MB with the bigger litre sized engines and awesome torque, BMW with their smaller litre sized engines and impressive power outputs.

The 63 engine is a beast. You take off the resonator on those pipes and man is that thing sweet. The 55 kompressor engines didn't sound anywhere near the way the 63's do.

And for everyone's info out there, MB was pumping out more forced induced cars (supercharged and turbos: I4SS, V6SS, V8SS, V12TT) while BMW was jerking it and Audi was pumping out 1 POS 1.8L I4 turbo. MB saw all the problems that came with those supercharged engines and decided to go back to the N/A route. And you know what, their engines get decent gas mileage for their large sizes. Wait till those 335i and 535i started getting a couple of more years old, we'll see the gremlins that pop up.

[rieger]

Originally Posted by 220S

As I said, I'm just stupid. You're absolutely right. I totally agree with everything you have said. I know nothing. It's embarrassing. Who is Carlson [sic]? Dinan is actually a Porsche tuner now? Wow, I had no idea. Thanks for the heads-up!

I should take advantage of these "tuners" you mention. Yes, very good idea. I never thought of that. Thanks. I'll will tune my AMG and my Porsche.

I can't remember if I was positioning the 4.2 against the 5.5 MB V8. Hmm? I thought I just said Audi in general. Oh well, I also have dementia and my memory is slipping. Thanks for pointing that out!

This forum needs more informative members like you. Thanks for the tips

Well Dinan for BMW and I meant to say Giac for Porsche and Audi.

We are talking about the E550 so it makes sense to compare the equivalent V8 no? What you want to compare a 2.0T to this engine? If you say Audi engines in general than why don't you specify which one and lets compare that engine to MB engines than smarty pants?
Man you are stupid if you didn't understand that what I am saying is that engines with turbo and supercharging get a lot more than what is on paper with chipping hence Audi engines may seem under powered on paper but once chipped they are comparable to engines with huge displacements from MB. Unless you have a Porsche turbo or an AMG 55 supercharged engine than it would be pointless to chip your cars. So if you thought about it than you are stupid since you have a E63.

[gaazmon]

Originally Posted by rieger

Well Dinan for BMW and I meant to say Giac for Porsche and Audi.

We are talking about the E550 so it makes sense to compare the equivalent V8 no? What you want to compare a 2.0T to this engine? If you say Audi engines in general than why don't you specify which one and lets compare that engine to MB engines than smarty pants?
Man you are stupid if you didn't understand that what I am saying is that engines with turbo and supercharging get a lot more than what is on paper with chipping hence Audi engines may seem under powered on paper but once chipped they are comparable to engines with huge displacements from MB. Unless you have a Porsche turbo or an AMG 55 supercharged engine than it would be pointless to chip your cars. So if you thought about it than you are stupid since you have a E63.

Hey, do you even own an MB??? That should be the question everyone is asking. And maybe some of us don't prefer forced induced engines to N/A engines.

So I guess everyone that has a 63 engine MB is stupid? I don't mean to be an a*s like this, but this convo is getting quite insulting towards one of my fellow forum members.

[rieger]

Originally Posted by gaazmon

LOL. Ok... The 4.2 V8 more than the MB 5.5 V8. Uh... NO. The 5.5 V8 in the 550's produce 382 hp and 390 torque (even the old 55 N/A V8 produced 350+ hp with 360+ torque). Last I checked 382 is more than 333. Besides that 4.2L V8 gets like 12-13 mpg in city, it's not a good engine compared to BMW and MB ones in that category (I looked at one once, it was the engine). The C63 gets like 11-12 in the city and an E63 gets like 13 in the city. The MB V12TT that produce 500+ hp get that same mileage as the S4. I wonder who has the better engine then? The only impressive engines Audi has are the V10's and hmmm... I wonder if they were pulled from a "Italian bull", if you guys get what I mean??? Even the R8 only pulls 420hp for. They're behind with engines and they can't even develop a true V12, they have to stick two V6's next to each other.

MB and BMW has always dominated the engines. MB with the bigger litre sized engines and awesome torque, BMW with their smaller litre sized engines and impressive power outputs.

The 63 engine is a beast. You take off the resonator on those pipes and man is that thing sweet. The 55 kompressor engines didn't sound anywhere near the way the 63's do.

Uh obviously 382 is more than 333hp but I said hp/l of displacement which puts the 550 engine around 65hp/l and the 4.2 around 80hp/l of displacement. We we talk about hp/l of dispacement than you are talking about only the engine and how efficient it is in producing power but when you are talking about fuel efficiency that also takes into consideration the gearing etc. The gearing in the V12tt charged car are huge and you can glide forever in that car hence fuel efficiency rises due to the huge gears hence why a car with 7 speed auto is more efficient than a car with a 5 speed autobox.
I mean anyone can really shoehorn a big ass engine in a car just like the american muscle cars but look at the trend and how gas prices are going up and the way to go is with forced induction and hp/l of displacement and not just putting huge engines into big and bigger cars.
Audi does have some engines that definitely have to be revised such as the the 3.2 V6 which is now discontinued but I think the 4.2 V8 is not one of them as the hp/l of displacement is great just if you want more hp on it then they will be turbocharging it rather than just upping the displacement I think. This will allow for more torque and bigger gears which will allow it to be more fuel efficient at the same time more hp.

[jbrinkley]

It's ok Rieger if you don't believe audi in general has engine issues, or that they are a couple steps back of MB or BMW.
No one wants to argue with you. It's all good. Believe what you want.
Clearly VAG can produce good engines, I'm sure we all agree that's possible given their resources.
In the future audi could very well be ahead of the curve in regards to smaller forced induction motors. Look at the VW line up.

[220S]

jbrinkly, when are you going to pick up the car? I'm curious as to the build date. Mine was June 08, so it had been sitting for a bit (changed the oil, btw) Apparently there are some still sitting at the port and VPC, so prices will go down even more as the summer goes by. So now it's a game of eye on the inventory and further price cutting.

Both the K1 and K2 tunes are pretty nice for the M156. The K1 is a no-brainer. Talk to Cory (Kleemann USA) about it, if you're considering it.

I think I might bite the bullet this winter (and when the weather is better for noticing the best performance) ECU, pulley, intake, headers. And mix in some some stuff from Renntech (another straight up vendor) Maybe a LSD, too. Also check the W211 AMG forums for Fedor Dezyn's goodies.

It's a better choice than Evosport (which is a Powerchip ECU) or MHP, imho. Carlsson (the correct spelling, btw ) and Brabus have way less US support.
Again, that's just my opinion.

There's nothing like a large displacement, high spinning NA

And hey, we don't have to think about heat soak and over sized intercoolers. A bit less foot lbs than the 55's FI, but the torque sure is buttery smooth with the M156.

[gaazmon]

My thing about the 4.2L V8 engine in the S4/S5 is that compared to MB's C63/CLK63 and BMWs M3/M3 coupe/conv, it needs to be revised. I'm looking at from a competitive prospective. Your mainstream customer will just be like "oh, why should I buy the S5 when the M3 and C63 are way more powerful." I see many M3 coupes now, but only see a few S5s (one is one of my neighbors). Don't get me wrong, I think the S5 is gorgeous exterior wise, and very nice interior wise.

Also, in regards, to hp/L displacement, MB has always had bigger displacement engines... but that is why they last so long. BMWs and Audis always squeeze out more power from their engines without increasing the displacement and therefore the quality and reliability of their engines are not as good as MBs, therefore they don't last as long. Ya, MBs have electric and other problems, but so does BMW and Audi.

[jbrinkley]

it will be here next week sometime, waiting on transport. I couldn't take four days off to go get it.
honestly I would love to go to town on stuff with this car, but I need to feel out the local MB place for what would and would not be cool about warranty.
I also promised I would not dump a bunch of money on parts. We'll see how that goes.
I'm trying to get away from tinkering with cars too much. Depends though really. I can see getting into the exhaust and an LSD. next year sometime.
I'm already scheming, we'll see
will the vin show build month?

[Boulder GT3]

Originally Posted by RJC

FYI For the 2010 MY only the S5 cab get the new 3.0 liter 333 hp supercharged engine and the new dual clutch 7 speed where the coupe keeps the current 353hp V8 and the old trans. The V8 guzzles fuel and the new engine is better especially with the new 7 speed. I like the S5's very much and am still having some trouble with the lines of the E coupe (except fpr the front).

The pioneers take a lot of arrows with Audi and Benz. I'd let that new configuration bake for a year before I went near it.

[rieger]

Originally Posted by gaazmon

My thing about the 4.2L V8 engine in the S4/S5 is that compared to MB's C63/CLK63 and BMWs M3/M3 coupe/conv, it needs to be revised. I'm looking at from a competitive prospective. Your mainstream customer will just be like "oh, why should I buy the S5 when the M3 and C63 are way more powerful." I see many M3 coupes now, but only see a few S5s (one is one of my neighbors). Don't get me wrong, I think the S5 is gorgeous exterior wise, and very nice interior wise.

Also, in regards, to hp/L displacement, MB has always had bigger displacement engines... but that is why they last so long. BMWs and Audis always squeeze out more power from their engines without increasing the displacement and therefore the quality and reliability of their engines are not as good as MBs, therefore they don't last as long. Ya, MBs have electric and other problems, but so does BMW and Audi.

Well Audi also has the RS4 to compete with the C63. Yes I know price is more but come on the C63 really is just a sedan with a huge a$$ engine. It really doesn't compare to the S4 and RS4 in the handling arena especially with the new B8 S4 and definitely not the M3. The C63 and E63 really are for older folks who really just want a few stoplight sprints. In this aspect it is more an American muscle sedan than a real European sports sedan. like the S6 and M5, and the same for the C63 and M3 and S4/RS4.

That said I would rather have the w211 E63 than the BMW M5 and Audi S6 just because the fact the E63 W211 looks nicer in my books and the S6 rides a little harsh. But what I am arguing about is that someone said Audi engines are inferior or obsolete, but in reality they are not. With the new w212 I will probably look at the new BMW 5 series to arrive soon or even wait a year or two for audi to release the new A6. Or like this poster consider the S4/S5.

[klenbore]

Originally Posted by jbrinkley

it will be here next week sometime, waiting on transport.

If I may ask what kind of discount did you get? I'm considering trading my '07 E550 with only 3500 miles for an '09 E63. The dealer is only offering a $10K mark down but I haven't worked him too hard yet.

[rieger]

Originally Posted by Boulder GT3

The pioneers take a lot of arrows with Audi and Benz. I'd let that new configuration bake for a year before I went near it.

tell me about it I have a 2003 E500. So anything you can throw at me I am prepared with the new 3.0T engine.

[220S]

Rieger, you're like a mosquito on a nice summer afternoon.

Ya, we old folks need our stoplight sprinters.

Of course, all us gray haired E63 owners have multiple cars and maybe just have the AMG as our comfort cruiser with some bite to it. Naw, we just wanted a big a$$ motor, that's all. I admit it.

Hey, driving a sports sedan or sports car gets our old bones all banged up on those long trips to the casino.

And you're right, the E63 AMG is just like an American muscle car. Same comfort, technology, build quality, innovations. Damn, I knew I shoulda bought a Mustang. Coulda saved a lot of bucks, too. Oh well, back to the casino.

[jbrinkley]

sent you a pm klenbore

[rieger]

Originally Posted by 220S

Rieger, you're like a mosquito on a nice summer afternoon.

Ya, we old folks need our stoplight sprinters.

Of course, all us gray haired E63 owners have multiple cars and maybe just have the AMG as our comfort cruiser with some bite to it. Naw, we just wanted a big a$$ motor, that's all. I admit it.

Hey, driving a sports sedan or sports car gets our old bones all banged up on those long trips to the casino.

And you're right, the E63 AMG is just like an American muscle car. Same comfort, technology, build quality, innovations. Damn, I knew I shoulda bought a Mustang. Coulda saved a lot of bucks, too. Oh well, back to the casino.

Don't mind being a mosquito as long as you keep being a old fart.

Nice to see that we finally can agree about the AMG cars.

[220S]

Originally Posted by rieger

Don't mind being a mosquito as long as you keep being a old fart.

Nice to see that we finally can agree about the AMG cars.

Ya. It's good to come to an agreement. Makes me feel all fuzzy inside. Maybe we could have a beer together in the Rose Garden?

Thank you so much for your insight.

The AMG is up for sale now.

And my Porsche, too. Can't tune it like those little 3.0T buggers. Damn.

I've seen the light.

Thank you, again.

[gaazmon]

Originally Posted by rieger

Well Audi also has the RS4 to compete with the C63. Yes I know price is more but come on the C63 really is just a sedan with a huge a$$ engine. It really doesn't compare to the S4 and RS4 in the handling arena especially with the new B8 S4 and definitely not the M3. The C63 and E63 really are for older folks who really just want a few stoplight sprints. In this aspect it is more an American muscle sedan than a real European sports sedan. like the S6 and M5, and the same for the C63 and M3 and S4/RS4.

That said I would rather have the w211 E63 than the BMW M5 and Audi S6 just because the fact the E63 W211 looks nicer in my books and the S6 rides a little harsh. But what I am arguing about is that someone said Audi engines are inferior or obsolete, but in reality they are not. With the new w212 I will probably look at the new BMW 5 series to arrive soon or even wait a year or two for audi to release the new A6. Or like this poster consider the S4/S5.

Handling wise, I love the B5 S4. A guy is selling one in my area and I'm so tempted to buy it (for my brother, but he probably wouldn't see it for half the week ). Those are amazing. The RS4 is really pricey though, that's the thing. The C63 is a big a$$ engine and I would never buy one probably (I have a thing about interiors, kind of a pet peeve).

Man... the M5 is such a nice car though I must say But I'd still take a 63 as well.

MB has always been the "muscle car" of German cars. Always with their bigger displacement engines and monster torque, I love that. I love those engines. One of my favorite aspects of MB are their engines.

Originally Posted by 220S

Ya. It's good to come to an agreement. Makes me feel all fuzzy inside. Maybe we could have a beer together in the Rose Garden?

Maybe next we can have a different drink

[rieger]

Originally Posted by gaazmon

Handling wise, I love the B5 S4. A guy is selling one in my area and I'm so tempted to buy it (for my brother, but he probably wouldn't see it for half the week ). Those are amazing. The RS4 is really pricey though, that's the thing. The C63 is a big a$$ engine and I would never buy one probably (I have a thing about interiors, kind of a pet peeve).

Man... the M5 is such a nice car though I must say But I'd still take a 63 as well.

MB has always been the "muscle car" of German cars. Always with their bigger displacement engines and monster torque, I love that. I love those engines. One of my favorite aspects of MB are their engines.



Maybe next we can have a different drink

Funny you say the B5 S4 because so many Audi enthusiasts prefer the 2.7T engine than the V8 engine because it is so readily tuneable. I have seen a few that actually have done the RS4 conversion and the B5 RS4 in my opinion is the best once you get to play around with it.
The only thing about the B5 S4 is that if you buy an used one take car who you buy from because with Turbo cars they have to be warmed up and cooled down properly otherwise the Turbo could be in rough shape. But that could just mean a Turbo upgrade.

[220S]

Originally Posted by gaazmon

Handling wise, I love the B5 S4. A guy is selling one in my area and I'm so tempted to buy it (for my brother, but he probably wouldn't see it for half the week ). Those are amazing. The RS4 is really pricey though, that's the thing. The C63 is a big a$$ engine and I would never buy one probably (I have a thing about interiors, kind of a pet peeve).

Man... the M5 is such a nice car though I must say But I'd still take a 63 as well.

MB has always been the "muscle car" of German cars. Always with their bigger displacement engines and monster torque, I love that. I love those engines. One of my favorite aspects of MB are their engines.

Ya, Gaazmon, you know I was also a long time Bimmer owner. I came close to a 550i with MT last year, but decided to try the MB on for size. I'm going to get serious when the F10 comes out and get an M5 for sure. I'll keep the AMG, though. I wasn't too certain on the 5er last year and felt it was still too big for real canyon carving (but that's what the P-Car is for) And still a trade-off with the stiffer BMW suspension and better handling versus MB Airmatic and comfort, etc..

I think the F10 will be a winner, btw.

Originally Posted by gaazmon

Maybe next we can have a different drink

Do you live in Glendale? I'm going to leave in about 45 min to a party in Silverlake (I used to live in Los Felix) I think we're going to hit that bar in Atwater later, Bigfoot or something? I'm not driving

btw, I was just playing with Nanook here. I didn't want to get into a shout fest with him, I hear he can get sorta cranky with people.

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/2392762-post442.html

But hey, he had some really bad luck with his MB ownership and so I can understand his frustration. But not sure why he got so pissy at me