How to improve the Harmon Kardon sound system

[jbondox]

I thought a bit for replying, and was going to say heck with it, and i know some of you are like oh no, him again... but oh well here I go. let me start off by saying you might get a better response in the audio section towards your dilemma of poor quality audio in your vehicle. so maybe post a link there for more responses. you can't compare apples to oranges, BMW, Lexus, RR, Porsche, and MB audio systems as being similar, nor can you compare an SUV acoustics to that of a sedan or even a hatchback. They are always different. Not to mention what one person hears compared to another. And you can't ask your spouse how it sounds which probably 9 out of 10 times has better hearing anyways. Next, the HK system at $1500 price tag... is going to be complicated to explain, but I will state this, HK doesn't do anything for free, every piece of equipment has a price tag. They resource parts, materials, and workers to make a product and they have bills to pay. not to mention MB has to make money on the product also. You wouldn't work for free, I know i wouldn't work for free. So I believe that justifies the price, however not the quality of the system. I can't state why they did what they did, but someone stated and listed out a $1300+ system 12" sub-$300 Box for sub-$150 Amp-$500 Front speakers-$200-300 Install-$200 I have to laugh at this because I think you don't understand the logic behind MB/HK/Bose/ML/B&O and the other auto manufacturers. Space is a premium in a vehicle. 99.9% of you GL owners would be very upset if you had all the space behind the 3rd row seat taken up by a woofer enclosure and amps. So they have to work with strict space limitations, and try to "fake" the system with EQ/processing built into the amp/gateway controller/command unit (or radio for other vehicles) So not only is it trying to reproduce a crappy signal that has already been molested from what the artist intended (MP3's, iPods, poor recordings) the system has to add it's own EQ'ing, then be designed so it lasts the life of the vehicle. Now if you were back at the dealership once a week for blown speakers... you'd be pi55ed! so there is governors designed for the system. The above quote is no where close to what a real high fidelity system should be at it. the custom woofer enclosure with woofer would exceed it. i am talking no ghetto enclosure behind the seats and using a real woofer. I know what the system sounds like both premium and non premium audio systems in the GL. I think the biggest issue is the lack of impact in the audio system, and can be remedied with replacing the front speakers and adding a rear sub. then amplifying each so three channels would be needed of amplification. I heard 2 Reus systems in the past year and a half, thankfully that was it. They are about as clueless as it gets to what "decent" audio sounds like, not even talking phenomenal audio. Winter is coming up, maybe this winter I will work on a real sub enclosure for the GL, and make some molds. I just hate fiberglassing in the winter. And please I beg you not to even state the Porsche Bose system in a Cayenne. It doesn't play music, it just plays noise... it sounds like every instrument and singer is all grouped in one small room and everything is recorded at the same volume. The cayenne is lame, I just made a video in the audio/video section with a cayenne also, so you don't think i am talking out of my arse, either. So I guess to sum it up, I defended the price of the HK system, insulted a few of ya's with comments (not directly at anyone), and recommended an after-market solution, now the bad news, only a handful of shops can pull off a perfect install on your vehicle let alone any other vehicles, so you are screwed!

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[GL Troll]

The right side compartment inside the hatch opposite the first-aid kit compartment contains the sub. Without looking at it, I seem to remember that there’s room to spare in the compartment. There is also plenty of space in the first-aid compartment and under the second row seats.

Although they’ve improved enormously in the last 15 years, I understand that MB has a history of crappy sound systems. In this case they had the cost of the standard system (whatever that is) plus the $1500 or so for the HK upgrade to play with. Beyond that I for one wouldn’t have minded paying $300-$400 more for quality sound in what is overall the best SUV ever made. With the cost of engineering the layout of the system spread out over tens of thousands of vehicles, the bulk of the money is for hardware. And it’s plenty to do a proper job. The problem is $1500 may not be enough to do it yourself with aftermarket stuff especially if you replace all the speakers. Remember, whatever the factory installed (and you paid for as part of the cost of the vehicle) becomes money thrown out the window.

A 12” sub is overkill unless your goal is to shake the ground a block away or make your ears bleed. It won’t appreciably improve the sound. So you don’t need to use any cargo space. A huge sub isn’t likely to give you lower lows either. How low your frequency goes depends on how large the volume of the listening area is. The relatively small volume of a vehicle – even a large one like the GL – negates the lowest frequencies. So, that advertised 25hz, 20hz or even lower doesn’t mean anything if you can’t hear it. You’re lucky to get down to 30hz in your living room. I think you can go too small also. But, I don’t know enough to tell you what too small is.

[N'AWLINS]

As much as I hate to do it, i have to agree with the poor quality of the H-K system. I also have a 2006 Tahoe with Bose and there is no comparing it to the H-K system. But, there are thousands of other positive attributes that the GL has over the Tahoe!!

[Waiting-4-550]

Originally Posted by sraj

I assume that you have the Logic 7 system. The DSP audio in my '01 540i is not as good as my GL550's system.

I do have the logic 7 in my 7 and is really very impressive.. Never heard such a crisp sound.. Amazing!!! The 7 has made me understand what audiophiles are talkin about.. Sort of like watching VHS movie vs DVD movie...

[jbondox]

I would disagree about the 12, it has a large cabin and a lot of air to move! a 10 would be average, but for a few bucks more you have an above average system. when I used to install for a living I would add a 10 or a 12 in many many many SUV's , and sound quality wise a 12 was better in a small sealed enclosure vs a larger ported enclosure with a 10 or 8" woofer. Further depending on what source you use, this being a MB Command, you should still get down to the lower octaves easily seeing that commands CD portion puts out a signal that starts off at 20 hz when tested on an Audio Control RTA and Oscope. sure it isn't the prettiest signal and completely flat throughout the audible audio spectrum, but the signal is still there. Further the cabin isn't going to do anything but re=inforce the bass, like corner loading a home theater subwoofer... yes there is a reason to add the sub in the corner.

Properly amplified and installed that sub will rock. i will make my way up to MB tomorrow

[jbondox]

Originally Posted by Waiting-4-550

I do have the logic 7 in my 7 and is really very impressive.. Never heard such a crisp sound.. Amazing!!! The 7 has made me understand what audiophiles are talkin about.. Sort of like watching VHS movie vs DVD movie...

The 7's system is pretty good, i liked it when i was leasing the 760Li, however, i wanted a bit more impact. the cooler in the back stopped me from using the pass through but i did add 2 10" woofers in the trunk, DVD conversion, back up camera, K-40, rims tires, and more rims and tires... The subs under the passenger and driver seats weren't too bad at all, plus the unit had a real EQ built into the idrive. also the schnitzer kit

[axchung]

Before getting my GL550, I had actually placed an order for an Audi A8.I had ordered the Bang & Olufsen sound system. 1000watts, 14 speakers. Boy, I was really looking foward to that...

[GLDriver]

I hope to see one of you installing it soon..

[rkao]

Originally Posted by Waiting-4-550

I do have the logic 7 in my 7 and is really very impressive.. Never heard such a crisp sound.. Amazing!!! The 7 has made me understand what audiophiles are talkin about.. Sort of like watching VHS movie vs DVD movie...

+1 on the vote for the Logic7 in the BMW.

My wife and I were driving my parents' '06 750Li last night and she immediately commented that the sound system in it sounded much better than the one found in my E63 which, oddly enough, is also billed as an HK Logic7 system.

I'd originally ordered an S550 4matic before deciding on the E63 and with the 600 watt 14 speaker HK Logic7 system standard in the W221, wonder if the system in the newer car would have sound quality closer, if not surpassing, that found in the 7-series?

[ubrs]

Originally Posted by rkao

+1 on the vote for the Logic7 in the BMW.

My wife and I were driving my parents' '06 750Li last night and she immediately commented that the sound system in it sounded much better than the one found in my E63 which, oddly enough, is also billed as an HK Logic7 system.

I'd originally ordered an S550 4matic before deciding on the E63 and with the 600 watt 14 speaker HK Logic7 system standard in the W221, wonder if the system in the newer car would have sound quality closer, if not surpassing, that found in the 7-series?

I am a bit puzzled by people complaining about the HK System on the GL. When I ordered my 08 GL 450 (still on order), the P1 package included the upgraded HK Logic 7 sound system. Isn't this the same type of system that is found on the BMW 7-series? They are both made by Lexicon right?

[Waiting-4-550]

Originally Posted by ubrs

I am a bit puzzled by people complaining about the HK System on the GL. When I ordered my 08 GL 450 (still on order), the P1 package included the upgraded HK Logic 7 sound system. Isn't this the same type of system that is found on the BMW 7-series? They are both made by Lexicon right?

I think the 7 series inside dimensions is the reason for the superior sound over the GL. The GL inside is too big and the sound probably gets lost in places and hurts the final end product

[jbondox]

speaker placement also, along with the subs under your arse helps.

[BJ021]

Originally Posted by jbondox

speaker placement also, along with the subs under your arse helps.

Agreed.

The X5, even with the std tunes sounded just great to me - mostly because they installed subs under the front seats. But that truck does not have all the other features we love about our GL's...so it is a compromise.

I have noticed as others may have mentioned, that the iPod connection does not deliver good sound. It is far too weak on the bass. My son and I tested the same song on cd vs. iPod & it is not even close! In fact the whole iPod kit seems useless to me now since it has been discovered that one has to disconnect the da*m thing to change artists/albums, etc. That's a safe idea traveling at 85 down the expressway!

That being said, I think the sound from cd's are very good and crisp with just enough 'ooomf' out of the bass. Some would still prefer more. Most cars have better sound as the space is so much smaller and the front and rear windows bounce the sound right at you.

I think the targeted audience has kids on the dvd screens, dad on the Fox News channel (o.k. some on CNN) and mom doing a crossword anyway!!!

[oknish]

Originally Posted by BJ021

one has to disconnect the da*m thing to change artists/albums, etc.

If you have the OEM iPod kit then you can change songs/playlists/artists/albums on your iPod via steering wheel controls. Refer to manual for details.

Originally Posted by BJ021

I think the targeted audience has kids on the dvd screens, dad on the Fox News channel (o.k. some on CNN) and mom doing a crossword anyway!!!

Believe it or not but you can have 4 separate sources going on at the same time in GL. Dannon4x4 did a great post on it. Check it out.

[jefros]

I had to laugh. How can you compare a CD to compressed music. Unless you are using some form of lossless ripping then you will never have sound quality close to the original. We have become infatuated with compressed music, be it MP3's or AAC. I think we have to realize their are tradeoffs and average at best sound quality is one of them!

[BJ021]

Originally Posted by jefros

I had to laugh. How can you compare a CD to compressed music. Unless you are using some form of lossless ripping then you will never have sound quality close to the original. We have become infatuated with compressed music, be it MP3's or AAC. I think we have to realize their are tradeoffs and average at best sound quality is one of them!

I agree - but you would think that with all the technology available they (not saying MB here, just a general comment) could do better - that's all.
BJ

[BJ021]

Originally Posted by oknish

If you have the OEM iPod kit then you can change songs/playlists/artists/albums on your iPod via steering wheel controls. Refer to manual for details.

Believe it or not but you can have 4 separate sources going on at the same time in GL. Dannon4x4 did a great post on it. Check it out.

#1 We have the OEM iPod wire, and honestly - I can not find anything about controlling what you say above in any of the books. No mention of iPod anywhere, nor as an aux option. I remember seeing a post from someone else that they have to disengage their iPod to change artists, etc. The only thing we seem to be able to do is change songs within an album - but that is it. We can't even change albums/artists/playlists on the iPod unless it is disengaged from the wire. When it is connected the iPod screen says 'O.K. to Disconnect" leaving the units controls useless until you disconnect. If someone knows how to make this connection more user friendly I would appreciate it greatly! Something tells me there is a post somewhere, I just can not find it.


#2 Wow! That is very cool. Great post by Dannon4x4. I'll have to remember that for our 8 hour Thanksgiving trek! Thanks oknish!

[GL Troll]

Originally Posted by jefros

I had to laugh. How can you compare a CD to compressed music. Unless you are using some form of lossless ripping then you will never have sound quality close to the original. We have become infatuated with compressed music, be it MP3's or AAC. I think we have to realize their are tradeoffs and average at best sound quality is one of them!

Good point, I use lossless ripping and less compressed MP3 files with my iPod. Problem is, few people are even aware of this. Not many would have the patience to take the extra time. For that reason, I think Apple and others figure they won’t bother to write the code when they can rip super fast with sloppy results. As things are now, it’s a pain in the butt to set up lossless ripping.

Mine sounds about as good as it gets with the GL’s system with the 1/8” jack.

[GLDriver]

Does anyone knows if there is any drop-in replacement for the subwoofer..something better quality ?

[carpersn]

Originally Posted by BJ021

#1 We have the OEM iPod wire, and honestly - I can not find anything about controlling what you say above in any of the books. No mention of iPod anywhere, nor as an aux option. I remember seeing a post from someone else that they have to disengage their iPod to change artists, etc. The only thing we seem to be able to do is change songs within an album - but that is it. We can't even change albums/artists/playlists on the iPod unless it is disengaged from the wire. When it is connected the iPod screen says 'O.K. to Disconnect" leaving the units controls useless until you disconnect. If someone knows how to make this connection more user friendly I would appreciate it greatly! Something tells me there is a post somewhere, I just can not find it.

There is a separate small "pamphlet-style" manual for the iPod kit which gives these directions...ought to be tucked into your leather-ette portfolio somewhere. Once you learn the routine, it's rather easy to use the phone buttons to move between menu levels...even without the manual, you can master it. Good Luck...

[vraa]

FWIW - from a totally technical perspective...

Bose sucks. It's a pretty well-accepted *fact* in the audio community.

Second, you're going to be dropping big bucks if you want audiophile quality hardware in a car. As long as it's from factory, you probably won't find better than the Mark Levinson in LS430's and LS460/600's.

Third, if you want to really differentiate a good sound system versus a perfect one, you have to make sure your source is perfect, this means either a well-mastered CD. This does NOT mean an iPod playing back lossy OR lossless formats, the iPod just can't output it right.

The best is either straight off the CD or ripping the CD in lossless and burning it back onto the disc. From what I've heard, you'll get a more solid / reliable burn at slower speeds, but I haven't figured out a way to test for it well over a decent amount of time/degradation of media.

If you are using iTunes it's incredibly easy to switch the ripping from lossy (mp3 UGH! DISGUSTING) to lossless (apple lossless, a MUCH superior codec, and in theory, all lossless codecs should be the same).
Just go to the iTunes preferences, go to the importing page, and change from MP3 to Apple Lossless. Piece of cake.
Be warned though, lossless files take up about 10x more than mp3s. That's because you aren't trashing any data from the disc. Inherently with mp3s, you are discarding data!

[BJ021]

Originally Posted by carpersn

There is a separate small "pamphlet-style" manual for the iPod kit which gives these directions...ought to be tucked into your leather-ette portfolio somewhere. Once you learn the routine, it's rather easy to use the phone buttons to move between menu levels...even without the manual, you can master it. Good Luck...

Hey Thanks Carpersn - I did not get that pamphlet and will request it from my dealer, in the mean time I'll start playing around with the other controls to make it work!

[Stumblefoot]

Originally Posted by BJ021

Hey Thanks Carpersn - I did not get that pamphlet and will request it from my dealer, in the mean time I'll start playing around with the other controls to make it work!

If your dealer doesn't have one, let me know and I can make a copy of mine and fax it to you. It doesn't have many pages at all.

Best Wishes.

[sraj]

Originally Posted by BJ021

Great post by Dannon4x4. I'll have to remember that for our 8 hour Thanksgiving trek! Thanks oknish!

I searched by author but I could not locate that post...can someone post a link?

[BJ021]

Originally Posted by sraj

I searched by author but I could not locate that post...can someone post a link?

Here you go!

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=202324