Jeep SRT8 vs. Mercedes ML63 from a stop

[BoBcanada]

Originally Posted by MBke I look fwd to your future videos. I've really enjoyed this discussion. How about switching drivers for some of the races? (seriously). I can't help but think that the start should have been better for the ML63 driver. Did both drivers rev up before? Also, could the window open/turbulence be a factor (doubt it)??? They are both automatic cars so changing drivers wont help much. P.s IS srt8 lighter than ML63?

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[brt3]

Originally Posted by Thericker

That's what's funny here, it's a SUV TRUCK! not really a performance vehicle, unless you heavily mod it w/say a future Supercharger application...

You say on one hand you don't care about the straight line perf, but rather interior, cargo area, but now you ask about finding tricks to enhance it's straight line??
Here's one....sell it and buy an SL65

That's not what I said. I said I don't much care about "pissing contests" where people compare cars. Look at my posts and you'll see I care very much about performance. I came from an E55 wagon -- which was brutally quick and handled quite well for it's size. I had many doubts about changing over to the ML63. However, I've had reconstructive surgery on both knees. The surgery was NOT successful and it was too painful getting up and down/in and out of the E55. The ML63 is the best compromise for my love of interesting machinery, performance, and the "utilitarian" requirements of using as a daily driver AND not killing my knees.

This is the problem with the internet. It's hard to have a decent thread for the exchange of information, as a lot of other people feel a need to defend their personal agendas. Have fun with your C6, but you don't see me coming into your thread and criticizing your car, your opinions, or your preferences.

In the future you may want to consider being careful about judging other people, OK?

[MBke]

Originally Posted by BoBcanada

They are both automatic cars so changing drivers wont help much.

P.s IS srt8 lighter than ML63?

SRT8 pulled away by 2 car lengths in 1st 2.5 seconds. He was already 1/2 car length ahead after 1 sec. This doesn't fit.

Specs: SRT8 0-60 in 5.2 sec ML63 0-60 in 4.8-5.0 sec
I realize limitations of this data but, but to be so far off to 60mph in the video between both vehicles -- something is wrong!

This is a "failure to launch" by the ML63. Whether it is because starting in 2nd gear? or Driver was too slow off the mark? I don't know, but I think we need a better explanation.

[Thericker]

Originally Posted by brt3

That's not what I said. I said I don't much care about "pissing contests" where people compare cars. Look at my posts and you'll see I care very much about performance. I came from an E55 wagon -- which was brutally quick and handled quite well for it's size. I had many doubts about changing over to the ML63. However, I've had reconstructive surgery on both knees. The surgery was NOT successful and it was too painful getting up and down/in and out of the E55. The ML63 is the best compromise for my love of interesting machinery, performance, and the "utilitarian" requirements of using as a daily driver AND not killing my knees.

This is the problem with the internet. It's hard to have a decent thread for the exchange of information, as a lot of other people feel a need to defend their personal agendas. Have fun with your C6, but you don't see me coming into your thread and criticizing your car, your opinions, or your preferences.

In the future you may want to consider being careful about judging other people, OK?

Damn...Settle down guy, you think I'm judging you??? EZ does it..Just goes to show, how your egos are to attached to a damn bucket of bolts, it's just another car off the assembly line guys, not your entire meaning of existence...sheesh...If your really into perf, and have trouble w/knees you should've purchased & modded a 2005-7 G55

Yes you did intimate in earlier posts, about not caring about perf/and that the current ml63 was more than enough perf for you..If you want/or carry on I'll go re-post them for ya

[crjag]

a) this should be a sticky. It's a gas.
b) I do think it would be interesting to run the test switching rides.
c) If both cars were brake-torquing, it doesn't seem to make sense to say one launches hard and the other doesn't; that would seem to suggest that the ML revs drop after releasing the brake even though the accelerator is depressed; perhaps the electronic systems cut in to prevent wheelspin?

[MB AMG]

Awesome!!

[Thericker]

Originally Posted by MBke

SRT8 pulled away by 2 car lengths in 1st 2.5 seconds. He was already 1/2 car length ahead after 1 sec. This doesn't fit.

Specs: SRT8 0-60 in 5.2 sec ML63 0-60 in 4.8-5.0 sec
I realize limitations of this data but, but to be so far off to 60mph in the video between both vehicles -- something is wrong!

This is a "failure to launch" by the ML63. Whether it is because starting in 2nd gear? or Driver was too slow off the mark? I don't know, but I think we need a better explanation.

Explanation: Magazine quotes, & Fact performance data, is done in pefect conditions w/high octane fuel etc...What your seeing here is what can happen under REAL WORLD conditions...

[MBke]

Originally Posted by Thericker

Explanation: Magazine quotes, & Fact performance data, is done in pefect conditions w/high octane fuel etc...What your seeing here is what can happen under REAL WORLD conditions...

Yes, agree, but that is too much of a difference. That's what I'd expect racing a minivan.... ahead by 2 car lengths after 2 secs...

The Jeep appeared to walk up a bit, and took off faster. If you watch another video on youtube: SRT8 vs RS4, the Jeep takes off split sec sooner (again). Perhaps same driver? (it was posted by same person as SRT8 vs ML63). But the Audi driver is right on it and takes it.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MTO23UQhZs

PS. I do not mean any disrespect to SRT8 or ML63 driver.. just trying to get my head around this (and not because of any ego thing... I just like to be able explain things when I see them....)

[BlackSRT8]

Originally Posted by MBke

I look fwd to your future videos. I've really enjoyed this discussion.
How about switching drivers for some of the races? (seriously). I can't help but think that the start should have been better for the ML63 driver. Did both drivers rev up before? Also, could the window open/turbulence be a factor (doubt it)???

I will try and convince him into letting me drive his car, but he is protective about it. i agree that would clear all stipulation about rivers.
both drivers did rev up and were in first gear.
windows would have a minimal effect on a race

[BlackSRT8]

Originally Posted by mosesgolf

Ditto. BlackSRT8 seems like a standup guy who's very humble in his well fought victory. Thanks for coming and clearing things up. Both are awesome cars period. I just can't stand it when someone loses or sees one of their own cars lose and starts making lame excuses.

thanks, i love to race and hate to loe but i will not talk alot of crap when i do lose. ill admit the ML is faster up top no question but til at least 100 srt8 is faster. it surprised me just as much as it suprised you all because mercedes owns jeep. blows my mind they would put out a car that is so much less in price and beats the ml63

p.s. i will post the link to our site in a sec. gotta respond to everyone first. this is to fun.

Edit: Here is the link to the thread i was informed about the ml63 thread. dont get butt hurt im talking a little smack its all in good fun, im a good sport trust me.
http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/s...1885#post21885

[BlackSRT8]

Originally Posted by MBke

SRT8 pulled away by 2 car lengths in 1st 2.5 seconds. He was already 1/2 car length ahead after 1 sec. This doesn't fit.

Specs: SRT8 0-60 in 5.2 sec ML63 0-60 in 4.8-5.0 sec
I realize limitations of this data but, but to be so far off to 60mph in the video between both vehicles -- something is wrong!

This is a "failure to launch" by the ML63. Whether it is because starting in 2nd gear? or Driver was too slow off the mark? I don't know, but I think we need a better explanation.

i will film a couple more videos for explanation. if you guys have better advice to launch the ml63 let me know so i can pass it on.
The 0-60 for srt8 grand cherokee posted at 5.2 is not true on our site guys are getting alot better than that stock average around 4.8

[BlackSRT8]

Originally Posted by MBke

Yes, agree, but that is too much of a difference. That's what I'd expect racing a minivan.... ahead by 2 car lengths after 2 secs...

The Jeep appeared to walk up a bit, and took off faster. If you watch another video on youtube: SRT8 vs RS4, the Jeep takes off split sec sooner (again). Perhaps same driver? (it was posted by same person as SRT8 vs ML63). But the Audi driver is right on it and takes it.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MTO23UQhZs

PS. I do not mean any disrespect to SRT8 or ML63 driver.. just trying to get my head around this (and not because of any ego thing... I just like to be able explain things when I see them....)

yes that is the same driver in both cars! my car does walk a few inches because the brakes have a hard time holding back the power. the walking would matter in a close race but not in this instance.

we will switch drivers cuz it seems like a pretty big deal, which i agree with.

i will also try to match all conditions as close as possible: 2 people per car, same amount of gas in tank, same octane gas, traction off, one race with powerbrake, one race with no power brake, and obviously same altitude.

[crjag]

I don't think the price issue is as meaningful in that context. Bentley Continental at $170ish is no slower than Azure at $340ish. Does the Azure owner think he was robbed? Its the whole experience, not just one element.

[MBke]

Originally Posted by BlackSRT8

yes that is the same driver in both cars! my car does walk a few inches because the brakes have a hard time holding back the power. the walking would matter in a close race but not in this instance.

we will switch drivers cuz it seems like a pretty big deal, which i agree with.

i will also try to match all conditions as close as possible: 2 people per car, same amount of gas in tank, same octane gas, traction off, one race with powerbrake, one race with no power brake, and obviously same altitude.

BlackSRT8 = you are a good (smart) driver!
I agree with standardizing as you've suggested (as long as one of the drivers or passengers don't weight 450lbs). Can you detail how exactly you "powerbrake." Would this result in differences b/w the vehicles?
I also think you need to standardize whether these are driven in automatic mode versus a "manual" mode, etc. Perhaps try one in each mode?
Thank you very much -- I enjoy what you've started!!

[BlackSRT8]

Originally Posted by MBke

BlackSRT8 = you are a good (smart) driver!
I agree with standardizing as you've suggested (as long as one of the drivers or passengers don't weight 450lbs). Can you detail how exactly you "powerbrake." Would this result in differences b/w the vehicles?
I also think you need to standardize whether these are driven in automatic mode versus a "manual" mode, etc. Perhaps try one in each mode?
Thank you very much -- I enjoy what you've started!!

i will do every combination i can think of. list any more combo you can think of so i dont miss anything, this will be fun.
both the drivers and passengers weight close to the same when combined so no worries.
Maybe even a run in the snow. to a reasonable speed of course. 100 mph in the snow is scary!

Oh yeah i forgot to add. the same buddy also has a G55 hopefully I'll get a chance to race that.

[BlackSRT8]

Originally Posted by BoBcanada

They are both automatic cars so changing drivers wont help much.

P.s IS srt8 lighter than ML63?

curb weight:

ML63: 5,093 lbs

Jeep SRT8: 3,994 lbs but on jeep.com it claims 4800 lbs
Edit: just checked road and track.com 4805 lbs (seems more accurate haha)

pretty big difference actually. but the extra hp and torque should more than make up for it i thought.

*not official weight just what came up on google first for each search

[mosesgolf]

Originally Posted by BlackSRT8

curb weight:

ML63: 5,093 lbs

Jeep SRT8: 3,994 lbs

pretty big difference actually. but the extra hp and torque should more than make up for it i thought.

*not official weight just what came up on google first for each search

That can't be right for the SRT8. That's about what a mid size seden usually weighs

[AMG_55]

Originally Posted by BlackSRT8

curb weight:

ML63: 5,093 lbs

Jeep SRT8: 3,994 lbs

pretty big difference actually. but the extra hp and torque should more than make up for it i thought.

*not official weight just what came up on google first for each search

welcome to the forum


theres all the explanation anyone needs, at lower speed when weight matters more the ml is slower, at top end weight isnt as important and the ml's power advantage comes through.

that is a huge difference in weight, i thought it was maybe 5-600lbs.

you might want to put the ml in dyno mode so the electronics dont interfere w/ the launch, but even then i still believe the srt is faster to 100-120

[BlackSRT8]

Originally Posted by mosesgolf

That can't be right for the SRT8. That's about what a mid size seden usually weighs

yeah it was only 900 lbs off , i changed it the the right number, sorry

[barho]

I too am from the SRT site and am enjoying the back and fourth as well. I will say though, the actual curb weight for the SRT is 4850 lbs (a little over 200 lbs difference). The Jeep site is incorrect on the weight So there goes the theory that the ML63's weight slows it down

Here is a good website for you to look over the competition
http://www.wkjeeps.com/wk_srt8_specs.htm

The SRT WILL do 0-60 in under 5 secs (wet or dry).

Autoweek timed it at 4.7 secs

EDIT - I see you made the change

[brt3]

Originally Posted by Thericker

Damn...Settle down guy, you think I'm judging you??? EZ does it..Just goes to show, how your egos are to attached to a damn bucket of bolts, it's just another car off the assembly line guys, not your entire meaning of existence...sheesh...If your really into perf, and have trouble w/knees you should've purchased & modded a 2005-7 G55

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

[Thericker]

Originally Posted by brt3

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Then why are you talking guess you just answered the question---Village idiot

[Big4x4]

Hey guys... Just Checked out Edmunds.com for reference. According to them:

ML63
Performance:
0 - 30 (sec): 1.9
0 - 45 (sec): 3.2
0 - 60 (sec): 4.7
0 - 75 (sec): 6.9
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.3 @ 105.6
30 - 0 (ft): 29
60 - 0 (ft): 114

"Best launch used no brake torque -- just mash and go. Manual shifting difficult to predict to avoid rev limiter -- especially in 1st gear. Awesome engine blasts through first three gears instantly"


Jeep SRT8
Performance:
0 - 30 (sec): 2.0
0 - 45 (sec): 3.5
0 - 60 (sec): 5.2
0 - 75 (sec): 7.8
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.49 @ 102.24
30 - 0 (ft): 30.1
60 - 0 (ft): 120.0

"Best technique was simply leaving it in "Drive" with traction control off and launching with mild brake torquing."
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Car and Driver tested the Jeep SRT8:
0-60: 4.5 sec
1/4 mile: 13.2@103
0-100: 12.0 sec.

The ML63 was tested last month by car and driver:
0-60: 4.6 sec
1/4 mile: 13.2 @107
0-100: 11.5 sec.

Clearly, the ML63 should be closer than that video shows, but I still believe the Jeep SRT8 launches a bit harder...

[mosesgolf]

Originally Posted by Big4x4

Hey guys... Just Checked out Edmunds.com for reference. According to them:

ML63
Performance:
0 - 30 (sec): 1.9
0 - 45 (sec): 3.2
0 - 60 (sec): 4.7
0 - 75 (sec): 6.9
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.3 @ 105.6
30 - 0 (ft): 29
60 - 0 (ft): 114

"Best launch used no brake torque -- just mash and go. Manual shifting difficult to predict to avoid rev limiter -- especially in 1st gear. Awesome engine blasts through first three gears instantly"


Jeep SRT8
Performance:
0 - 30 (sec): 2.0
0 - 45 (sec): 3.5
0 - 60 (sec): 5.2
0 - 75 (sec): 7.8
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.49 @ 102.24
30 - 0 (ft): 30.1
60 - 0 (ft): 120.0

"Best technique was simply leaving it in "Drive" with traction control off and launching with mild brake torquing."
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Car and Driver tested the Jeep SRT8:
0-60: 4.5 sec
1/4 mile: 13.2@103
0-100: 12.0 sec.

The ML63 was tested last month by car and driver:
0-60: 4.6 sec
1/4 mile: 13.2 @107
0-100: 11.5 sec.

Clearly, the ML63 should be closer than that video shows, but I still believe the Jeep SRT8 launches a bit harder...

I have a good feeling that the SRT8 is making more power than the claimed 420. It all makes sense now. That Jeep is one heck of a car.

[BoBcanada]

it was a late start for ML and thats about it.