Porsche Panamera Dud?

[vonbeeler]

Let me be haste and predict the failure of the Porsche Panamera. Just got an email from my local dealer announcing that they have two on the ground and available.

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[WSH]

Lots of crappy cars (like VW Bentley or R8) sell well in a bubble economy, usually to buyers who want latest man-purse

Recently test-drove PanamTurbo and was astonished by what a POS it is from an engineering and dynamics/safety/comfort standpoint; it's a $175K car that's easily beaten by a $100K E63 in relevant perf metrics/advanced tech/subjective driving feel

Test-driving PanamTT merely reconfirms $150K 600 or $200K 65 as world's best engineered cars at any price....and, for the frugal enthusiast, 600/65 are far better value for the buck than a $175K PanamTT

[lkchris]

It really looks to be an S-class competitor rather than an E-class foe and it's correct the S-class is really good.

My Mercedes dealer also has Porsche-Audi in a nearby building and they've invited me to an introductory "breakfast" next weekend and I think I'll go. First thing I've ever heard from this branch of this company.

Lots of people didn't think the Cayenne would sell, either, but it looks like it has. It feels to me like the "bloom" may be off SUVs and perhaps Panamera anticipates this. I guess maybe Audi does indeed sell a few A8s although we know the VW version (Phaeton) didn't make it in the USA.

Methinks it all has a lot to do with "promotion," and that MB ought to be promoting E-class wagons again, too.

[Oliverk]

Originally Posted by WSH

Lots of crappy cars (like VW Bentley or R8) sell well in a bubble economy, usually to buyers who want latest man-purse

Recently test-drove PanamTurbo and was astonished by what a POS it is from an engineering and dynamics/safety/comfort standpoint; it's a $175K car that's easily beaten by a $100K E63 in relevant perf metrics/advanced tech/subjective driving feel

Test-driving PanamTT merely reconfirms $150K 600 or $200K 65 as world's best engineered cars at any price....and, for the frugal enthusiast, 600/65 are far better value for the buck than a $175K PanamTT

please go away and never come back.

Anybody who thinks an R8 is a crappy car shouldn't even have the privilege of owning a vehicle.

[retardedmunk]

It is a great car.....but

I think a GTR is a better car overall at a fraction less...


then again I would take a CL65 all day long over a GTR ....that is silly me

[s600ed]

Anybody who thinks an R8 is a crappy car shouldn't even have the privilege of owning a vehicle

Could he be referring to the S8 instead? since we're on the topic of sport sedans? The R8 is a sports car from the ground up instead of the AMG as a touring car with upgraded components....

[vonbeeler]

Originally Posted by WSH

it's a $175K car that's easily beaten by a $100K E63 in relevant perf metrics/advanced tech/subjective driving feel

Test-driving PanamTT merely reconfirms $150K 600 or $200K 65 as world's best engineered cars at any price....and, for the frugal enthusiast, 600/65 are far better value for the buck than a $175K PanamTT

My thoughts exactly even the base Panam at 400hp is well below average in class. Who is going to pay $100k+ for that. What are they thinking? Add to that the insult of its gainly appearance.

[cjf_moraga]

Yeah I have been getting emails and just got a hard cover brochure through the mail also.

Can't see why anyone with any sense or taste would buy this thing. VW is going to kill it anyway so it is dead out of the gate. What an underpowered and hideous car. (Though sometimes I feel like the only person who finds the whole Porsche design style - including the 911, ugly in the extreme.)

Chris

[absent]

Regardless of the questionable styling (looks better in reality then in pictures) ,it still is dynamically head and shoulders above ANY sedan on the market currently.
Interior is a Bulls Eye ,too.
Anyone who after driving it says that car is a POS is either mentally challenged or is lying about driving it (again,questionable styling notwithstanding).

[retardedmunk]

YES...the R8 is a ground up built car...but I like the idea of owning a car that has the most powerful engine put into a production car...the R8 to me is a semi exotic car with great looks and engineering...I will not pay $100k for when I can get a Gallardo for $30k less ....

I was able to sit in and stare really hard at the Pana but like I told everyone else that was with me that felt like it resembled a ROACH ....IT WILL EVENTUALLY GROW on people....but not me...maybe later but not for some time.... I would be hard pressed to buy the car for $65k....with the turbo and all...when it loses value to say the $40k range shortly... I will maybe play with the idea of owning one and throwing a set of shoes on her and see where it goes...but honestly I would take a 2006 S65 over that car in a sec. and the S class is long sold out of style body style....

the car does truly nothing for me.....lets see what the tuners can do with her

it seems as though the idiots at Porsche have combined their SUV with the interior of the 911 and then stretched it and said "we have a 4-door car now guys...lets go show the world"

not to mention it is half as cool as a CTS-V and slower .....and I cant even compare it to a 2007 S65

****ING HORRIBLE DESIGN ..... it could of been better if they took the Porsche out of it and started from scratch....

I really do not like PORSCHE anyway... their cars are overpriced and underbuilt......how can u compare a 997 to a GTR? YOU CANT...we all know it....the GTR is $50k less with 4x the advanced techno engineering


I think PORSCHE should hang it up and take their hopped up VW's and go away...lol

[transferred]

Originally Posted by retardedmunk

YES...the R8 is a ground up built car...but I like the idea of owning a car that has the most powerful engine put into a production car...the R8 to me is a semi exotic car with great looks and engineering...I will not pay $100k for when I can get a Gallardo for $30k less ....

I was able to sit in and stare really hard at the Pana but like I told everyone else that was with me that felt like it resembled a ROACH ....IT WILL EVENTUALLY GROW on people....but not me...maybe later but not for some time.... I would be hard pressed to buy the car for $65k....with the turbo and all...when it loses value to say the $40k range shortly... I will maybe play with the idea of owning one and throwing a set of shoes on her and see where it goes...but honestly I would take a 2006 S65 over that car in a sec. and the S class is long sold out of style body style....

the car does truly nothing for me.....lets see what the tuners can do with her

it seems as though the idiots at Porsche have combined their SUV with the interior of the 911 and then stretched it and said "we have a 4-door car now guys...lets go show the world"

not to mention it is half as cool as a CTS-V and slower .....and I cant even compare it to a 2007 S65

****ING HORRIBLE DESIGN ..... it could of been better if they took the Porsche out of it and started from scratch....

I really do not like PORSCHE anyway... their cars are overpriced and underbuilt......how can u compare a 997 to a GTR? YOU CANT...we all know it....the GTR is $50k less with 4x the advanced techno engineering


I think PORSCHE should hang it up and take their hopped up VW's and go away...lol

Can't say I concur with any of the above, apart from the fact the Panerama is ugly. Porsche make great cars, while comparing the price of a new R8 to a used Gallardo makes little sense.

[1998CLK320]

Porsche is owned by VW and they said the Panamera will only get one 7 year cycle and thats it

BTW

Porsche would eat Mercedes lunch anyday

I am a Mercedes owner but I will be moving to a Porsche as my next car
Mercedes quality has drastically deteriated I mean come on offer a MANUAL CAR!!

[vonbeeler]

Originally Posted by 1998CLK320

Porsche is owned by VW and they said the Panamera will only get one 7 year cycle and thats it

BTW

Porsche would eat Mercedes lunch anyday

I am a Mercedes owner but I will be moving to a Porsche as my next car
Mercedes quality has drastically deteriated I mean come on offer a MANUAL CAR!!

wow that's funny

A seven year cycle may not last as the plan if the first vehicles are sitting at the lots.

I used to love Porsche in the 80's and 90's. The only vehicle I would ever consider from them now is the 911 turbo/gt2/gt3. However the reason I don't own one is that they are way over priced for what you get. That is a fact as we all know they are the most profitable car Co. That will not last as they continue to tarnish the image.

As far as Mercedes quality I suggest you step into a 2010 model other than a C class and you will be impressed. Porsche's interior qualities up until just the last couple years was the worst in the auto industry.

Comparing the two at price points is not a valid conversation in the least.

[1998CLK320]

Porsche holds there values way better than Mercedes
I can find a 1992 Carrera still pushing $10k

The only Mercedes that has very well put together interior is the latest S-Class
My mom has a 2007 S-550 the interior is flawless... you know why?
Because they keep it simple!!

I was embarassed to step into a SLK350 or the new CLK and find plastic phone dials in the car. Thats disgustingly horrible.
Mercedes needs to go back to Mercedes, they need the W208 the 190e and the old E-Class of the 1980's

I'm not fooled by the lights and glitz and glamour of the instrument panel

They started to approach the retro style in the new CLK and E-Class

Now all Mercedes needs is performance, I hate getting outmanuevered by my sister's Celica

[QuadBenz]

Originally Posted by 1998CLK320

Porsche holds there values way better than Mercedes
I can find a 1992 Carrera still pushing $10k

The only Mercedes that has very well put together interior is the latest S-Class
My mom has a 2007 S-550 the interior is flawless... you know why?
Because they keep it simple!!

I was embarassed to step into a SLK350 or the new CLK and find plastic phone dials in the car. Thats disgustingly horrible.
Mercedes needs to go back to Mercedes, they need the W208 the 190e and the old E-Class of the 1980's

I'm not fooled by the lights and glitz and glamour of the instrument panel

They started to approach the retro style in the new CLK and E-Class

Now all Mercedes needs is performance, I hate getting outmanuevered by my sister's Celica

Mercedes doesn't have performance?
What do you call 382HP out of a non-AMG V8? Or 510 out of their non-AMG V12? Or 604HP from their AMG V12? What do you call the monstrous brakes that are bigger than ordinary cars rims? And what about the CLK63 Black Series?
Maybe your car can be out-maneuvered by your sister's Celica, but try out a newer Benz model.

[1998CLK320]

Porsche Carrera S 385HP would most likely handle all theose engines you put in front of it

Not to mention Mercedes has the American way of car making
ie. Big engines in a car and bigger brakes for "added performance"

Mercedes needs to return to simplicity, maybe I am
just the drivers driver

[s600ed]

I was embarassed to step into a SLK350 or the new CLK and find plastic phone dials in the car. Thats disgustingly horrible.
Mercedes needs to go back to Mercedes, they need the W208 the 190e and the old E-Class of the 1980's

Check out the option list on any current porsche model and it'll make your stomach sick. When you're offering a "premium" sports car things such as power seats/supple leather/even bluetooth should NOT be an option. If one went with a real "base" Carrera the interior would look even worse than any entry level MB offered. All car mag/brochure photos of current porsches have at least 10k plus of options to even make them look decent. Not to mention anyone ever sat in the back seat of a carrera for more than 10min?

[QuadBenz]

Originally Posted by 1998CLK320

Porsche Carrera S 385HP would most likely handle all theose engines you put in front of it

Not to mention Mercedes has the American way of car making
ie. Big engines in a car and bigger brakes for "added performance"

Mercedes needs to return to simplicity, maybe I am
just the drivers driver

Tell me which newer model MBs you've actually driven...
Were any of them a CLK63 Black Series? Or C63 w/ PP?

[transferred]

Come on guys, his points aren't that bad. Porsche cars are reliable and handle and brake better than those by Mercedes Benz. MBs are also pretty reliable and more comfortable.

-Rob

[vonbeeler]

Originally Posted by 1998CLK320

Porsche Carrera S 385HP would most likely handle all theose engines you put in front of it

In 1994 when a 911 turbo had 350hp that was impressive. In 2010 (thats 16 years later just in case) 385hp imo is weak for a Carrera S.

[dbtk]

I agree on the Panamera's challenging styling, however, when it comes to its 0-60 mph performance 3.5 sec (C&D and R&T) is pretty impressive for a 4,500 lb sports sedan. Additionally, it is not so much about horsepower but about the car's actual performance. My 1997 911TT has only 400 hp and 400 lbs.ft. of torque (less than my BMW 135i) but it still tested between 3.7 and 3.9 seconds 0-60 mph according to Motor Trend, C&D and R&T at the time of introduction. So now, the new 997.2 with PDK can do under 4 sec with "only 385" (from a NA engine).

[LSM777]

Originally Posted by WSH

Lots of crappy cars (like VW Bentley or R8) sell well in a bubble economy, usually to buyers who want latest man-purse

Recently test-drove PanamTurbo and was astonished by what a POS it is from an engineering and dynamics/safety/comfort standpoint; it's a $175K car that's easily beaten by a $100K E63 in relevant perf metrics/advanced tech/subjective driving feel

Test-driving PanamTT merely reconfirms $150K 600 or $200K 65 as world's best engineered cars at any price....and, for the frugal enthusiast, 600/65 are far better value for the buck than a $175K PanamTT

I priced one out and it was more like 142k, dunno what kind of options bring it to 175k....And its the fugliest car Ive ever seen....That said, there is zero chance an e63 will beat it at anything.....I own a MB, but lets be honest here its not exactly the sportiest of rides...The handling/steering are inferior to any M BMW much less even mention Porsches....3.4 to 60 and an 11.7 1/4 mile time is as fast as a 997TT and blow away the MB....Again, im just stating my opinion based on ownership experience of many 996TT and 997TT and many "M" vehicles and 4 AMG vehicles...Ive never owned a Panamera and dont plan to bc its just plain wrong in so many ways imho....But if u take the looks out of the equation and are really commenting on the driving dynamics, steering, handling, etc the Panamera is miles ahead of any competitor

[Oliverk]

Originally Posted by s600ed

Check out the option list on any current porsche model and it'll make your stomach sick. When you're offering a "premium" sports car things such as power seats/supple leather/even bluetooth should NOT be an option. If one went with a real "base" Carrera the interior would look even worse than any entry level MB offered. All car mag/brochure photos of current porsches have at least 10k plus of options to even make them look decent. Not to mention anyone ever sat in the back seat of a carrera for more than 10min?

You are confusing what a Porsche is. Although it is an expensive car and a Premium name, they are drivers cars first. Porsche knows that there will be hardcore people that want a stripped down interior without the weight of power seats, supple leather, or bluetooth/nav. However, if one wishes, you can add more leather to a porsche interior than even the highest end MB.

The base carrera interior is generally well assembled and the material quality is far better than the C-class.

The 911 has emergency back seats because it is a sports car. MB's only sports car is the SLK line, and that doesn't have a backseat either.

You cannot compare MB and Porsche. MB's are luxury cars with big power. Porsches are sports cars with available luxury. However, Porsche does luxury better than MB does sports car.

Originally Posted by vonbeeler

In 1994 when a 911 turbo had 350hp that was impressive. In 2010 (thats 16 years later just in case) 385hp imo is weak for a Carrera S.

Porsche is about balance, not massive HP. 385bhp with a 3300lb curb weight makes for a pretty good performing vehicle. It won't be a rocketship, but again, straight line acceleration is not what a Porsche is for.

If you gave a 997 Carrera S a good work out on a road course, you'd realize that 385bhp is more than enough for most drivers.

[1998CLK320]

I drive a w208 and my bro's m3 I have driven a c63 which is very fast and is the first AMG that they just didnt throw a badge on with a bigger engine and brakes.

However driving a Cayman S is more enjoyable to me.
It's much more responsive.

I'm not going to buy a car for awhile as I am only 20 years old and looking to get some real assets first but when I do the Cayman S is what I am going for.

Don't get me wrong if anyone is looking for class and ridiculously smooth ride then MB all the way

[jtanoyo1]

Guys, it's a Porsche. No matter what you say, a Porsche will always be cooler than a Merc.

Nuff said.