How do you know the Global Warming Scam is over?

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by LRM1 -Then it was the hole in the ozone. By the year 2004 we should have all been dead becasue there would be no more ozone layer protecting the earth-we're still here.... All of these hysterics were driven by ...here it comes....anti business groups, radical liberals and hippies, then perpetuated by the media and "supported" by scientific "proof" in the science community (never mind that the very people providing the "proof" were part of the left wing academia). So here we are 20-25 years later and not one of those calamatous predictions have come true. Not one. Umm... By bringing up the ozone hole as an example, you're actually pushing the agenda of people who want to take action against global warming. I think you're about my age, so I would hope that you'd remember this a bit more clearly. But let's recap for the young people out there. - In the olden days, there wasn't a hole in the ozone layer, although it has always been thinner over the South Pole. - From the middle of the 20th Century onwards, companies found that CFCs were incredibly useful. They were cheap, and they were brilliant as propellants in aerosols - such as deodorant and hairspray - and as refrigerants in fridges and air conditioners. - But the CFCs, once used, rose up in the atmosphere, and attacked the ozone in the ozone layer. This led to a rapid thinning of the layer over the South Pole. - The thinning of this layer caused large increases in dangerous UV radiation, not only in Antarctica, but in other places, such as Southern Australia, Southern Argentina, and Southern Chile. This can cause skin cancer. - It was clear that if we kept using CFCs, the thinning would continue, and would spread North. There'd be huge increases in cancers, as well as a variety of other nasty things. - So the world got together and had a chat. Everyone said "We have to do something about this, or we're in trouble." Governments worked together, and reached a series of agreements. The widespread use of CFCs was stopped, and more expensive, but less damaging, propellants . This all happened very quickly, and was an unusual example of governments actually getting their act together to do something useful. Even America didn't block it. - As a result of this, the thinning of the ozone layer slowed, stopped, and eventually reversed. So, you've pulled up an example where: - The scientists were right. - The threat was real. - The threat was the result of human activity. - Governments got together and did something about it. - The solution cost money, but it was necessary. - The solution worked, which is why we didn't all die in 2004, as you suggest. Surely this is a useful lesson for the global warming "controversy". (I use the quotes because, as far as I can see, it's not a controversy in the rest of the world.) If there's a genuine, man-made threat to our well-being, it really makes sense to do something about it. Originally Posted by LRM1 then perpetuated by the media and "supported" by scientific "proof" in the science community (never mind that the very people providing the "proof" were part of the left wing academia). OK. It's all a conspiracy by left-wing scientists. Like gravity and evolution and combustion.

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[BenzBoy12]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Umm... By bringing up the ozone hole as an example, you're actually pushing the agenda of people who want to take action against global warming.

I think you're about my age, so I would hope that you'd remember this a bit more clearly. But let's recap for the young people out there.

- In the olden days, there wasn't a hole in the ozone layer, although it has always been thinner over the South Pole.
- From the middle of the 20th Century onwards, companies found that CFCs were incredibly useful. They were cheap, and they were brilliant as propellants in aerosols - such as deodorant and hairspray - and as refrigerants in fridges and air conditioners.
- But the CFCs, once used, rose up in the atmosphere, and attacked the ozone in the ozone layer. This led to a rapid thinning of the layer over the South Pole.
- The thinning of this layer caused large increases in dangerous UV radiation, not only in Antarctica, but in other places, such as Southern Australia, Southern Argentina, and Southern Chile. This can cause skin cancer.
- It was clear that if we kept using CFCs, the thinning would continue, and would spread North. There'd be huge increases in cancers, as well as a variety of other nasty things.
- So the world got together and had a chat. Everyone said "We have to do something about this, or we're in trouble." Governments worked together, and reached a series of agreements. The widespread use of CFCs was stopped, and more expensive, but less damaging, propellants . This all happened very quickly, and was an unusual example of governments actually getting their act together to do something useful. Even America didn't block it.
- As a result of this, the thinning of the ozone layer slowed, stopped, and eventually reversed.

So, you've pulled up an example where:

- The scientists were right.
- The threat was real.
- The threat was the result of human activity.
- Governments got together and did something about it.
- The solution cost money, but it was necessary.
- The solution worked, which is why we didn't all die in 2004, as you suggest.

Surely this is a useful lesson for the global warming "controversy". (I use the quotes because, as far as I can see, it's not a controversy in the rest of the world.) If there's a genuine, man-made threat to our well-being, it really makes sense to do something about it.



OK. It's all a conspiracy by left-wing scientists. Like gravity and evolution and combustion.

Evolution is not fact. Never put it in the same category as gravity or combustion. If you drop an apple, it will fall. Absolutely no chance that it will not. If you put an effing match to a piece of dry paper, it will burn. No debate. But evolution has not been proven, and there is plenty of evidence to refute it. Since we aren't talking about evolution, I guess I will get to the point. Global warming is so false on so many levels, that I don't even know where to start. I myself have posted 2 or 3 articles on the very, very basic reasons that it can't be true. It is simple facts, not conjecture based on numbers that are projected. And please MG, please hit me up with a link to your thread. Anyway, as a lot of people here in the midwest can tell you, we have had record amounts of snow, and record late cold temps. Some global warming, I'd say. And vraa, I love your posts, but I do think there is something wrong with conservation other than just money when it requires any gov. intervention, or when it has the audacity that humans, especially Americans, can affect the climate of the earth. Of course there are things that are good to do, but the things associated with global warming are beyond ridiculous. At least Porsche has the balls to stand up to Red Ken in the UK and his BS congestion charges. I hope to God they win and get rid of his crap once and for all.

[vraa]

Evolution is fact

Where do you think humans came from?

Do you think someone put us here?

The government should tax the hell out of carbon based energy sources. Solar energy and nuclear energy are the most logical solutions for our needs.

You know that America consumes about 5x barrels of oil that China and India do right? That's a loooot of pollution!

I can't remember the exact statistic, but it said something like the average American consumed 24x the energy of the average restofworld citizen.

I'm not saying energy use is bad
But certainly, if there are better, CHEAPER overall sources of it, we should pursue it with all our means

Automobiles are only 10% of our oil habits.
We don't need to prioritize oil because oil isn't necessary

Seriously, the entire issue with the mid east, our energy 'crisis', and global warming could be solved in one easy fix. Build a bunch of nuclear power plants and litter the desert with solar panels.

Another fact, for 80% of our electricity needs, we'd need to build I think 700 nuclear power plants, which would cost us a little more than how much we've spent in Iraq so far...

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by vraa

Evolution is fact

Just because you want it to be, does not make it so. Evolution is NOT a fact, it's a theory.

[Spartan]

Wow, we are talking about evolution as a theory now? It proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that people will believe in ANYTHING, including global warming.

Here is the latest in "global warming " malarkey.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...climate130.xml

[vraa]

Originally Posted by revstriker

Just because you want it to be, does not make it so. Evolution is NOT a fact, it's a theory.

Oops you're right
Nothing is really *fact* in science, it is all open to evidence and repeatability

Evolution is a theory which is supported by easily repeatable and testable experiments

Walk into any highschool Biology lab and you'll have all the equipment to show why evolution is the currently valid and accept theory on the life

It also is interesting how many parallels one can make with evolution of life, and just basic interactions between particles

Take the idea of natural selection
You can apply it to the beginning of the solar system as the proto-planetary gas condenses into heavier, more solid objects
The bigger objects continue to have mass coalesce around itself
While the smaller ones lose out to the bigger ones
In a way, this is evolution of the planets

We have seem evolution of the stars
There are billions out there
We've gathered a good explanation on
I've posted too much
I should get back to studying

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by hkmb

OK. It's all a conspiracy by left-wing scientists. Like gravity and evolution and combustion.

it's a nice argument for twelve year olds but you sound totally ignorant otherwise.

Read something more then the local papers and internet pulp and you may find different answers. Here is a hint, find out the paleoclimatology temperature resolutions and the CO2 cycle resolutions and how they interact...or don't interact. Find out about the Canadian prairie climate changes in the last few thousand years and notice something obvious. Find university level articles on English middle ages climate effects. Read something beyond pulp media fiction.

[Act of God]

Originally Posted by revstriker

Just because you want it to be, does not make it so. Evolution is NOT a fact, it's a theory.

I see the logic behind the theory, but it clearly is not fact at this point. I don't see any other explanation, but we're talking science here so we need absolutes or as close as you can realistically get.

Love how Vraa, Mr. Ron Paul, is suddenly in support of MORE federal government power to tax and punish people based on carbon. Very consistent there, I believe that was the 65th Amendment that gives them that power right?

[vraa]

Originally Posted by Act of God

I see the logic behind the theory, but it clearly is not fact at this point. I don't see any other explanation, but we're talking science here so we need absolutes or as close as you can realistically get.

Love how Vraa, Mr. Ron Paul, is suddenly in support of MORE federal government power to tax and punish people based on carbon. Very consistent there, I believe that was the 65th Amendment that gives them that power right?

Maybe we're just arguing semantics

Certainly no one here claims that some divine creature created us and placed us specifically on this earth

There is much more credibility to the theories which explain from the big bang, to the creation of the solar system, to the creation of planets, and then the creation of life, then to the creation of life as we know it, then to primates, and then to us

To the RP point
He's awesome and all, but free markets only work when they are free
The current situation isn't free markets
It's gov't enforced
What would the price of oil be if no tax dollars were spent procuring it

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by vraa

Certainly no one here claims that some divine creature created us and placed us specifically on this earth

Sorry vraa. I think a few people here are leaning towards claiming this. That's certainly what I'd infer from the following:

Originally Posted by BenzBoy12

Evolution is not fact. Never put it in the same category as gravity or combustion.

It looks like I made the classic mistake. By attempting to imply that I thought that global warming denial was as stupid as evolution denial, I've brought the evolution deniers out of the woodwork (from which they popped, instantly, miraculously, and fully formed).

Ah well. The bible doesn't tell us about global warming, so it can't be happening.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Here is the latest in "global warming " malarkey.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...climate130.xml

Yes, this is what we were talking about earlier with the Catholic Church analogy. As long predicted, the warming will slow down, and then speed up.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by BenzBoy12

Anyway, as a lot of people here in the midwest can tell you, we have had record amounts of snow, and record late cold temps. Some global warming, I'd say.

Oh, ffs.

[MG]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Yes, this is what we were talking about earlier with the Catholic Church analogy. As long predicted, the warming will slow down, and then speed up.

Long predicted as in..........Last week?

This would mean that the 0.3°C global average temperature rise which has been predicted for the next decade by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change may not happen, according to the paper published in the scientific journal Nature.

The Global warming nutters have been predicting this next decade as being very active in warming, and it won't be. they also predicted this past decade to be very active in wamring, and it hasn't been. In Fact, we haven't seen a change in the mean temperature since 1998.

I'm all for switching to Nukes and other non polluting energy sources. I'm all for dropping Oil and sending the ME and Venezuela into a tailspin and watching the fabled Nordic "Perfect Socialism" burst into flames. But the switch has to be for the right reasons, not because some Luddites pulled off the greatest scam in the history of cons.

[Act of God]

Originally Posted by MG

Long predicted as in..........Last week?



The Global warming nutters have been predicting this next decade as being very active in warming, and it won't be. they also predicted this past decade to be very active in wamring, and it hasn't been. In Fact, we haven't seen a change in the mean temperature since 1998.

I'm all for switching to Nukes and other non polluting energy sources. I'm all for dropping Oil and sending the ME and Venezuela into a tailspin and watching the fabled Nordic "Perfect Socialism" burst into flames. But the switch has to be for the right reasons, not because some Luddites pulled off the greatest scam in the history of cons.

Exactly. Seriously, how many AGW claims need to be outright debunked before people open their eyes? We already know that CO2 doesn't precede temperature rising. We already know there has been no warming since 1998 (unusually high in itself due to weather patterns, not AGW) and now we see that the models were flawed used in the IPCC report. So now there is an expected 20 years of non-warming while AlGoreCo. told us that we'd be in trouble by now?

Polar bears are doing fine as well, so much for that portrait of ruin eh? I find it shocking that so many people are falling for this money and power grabbing scam in this day and age.

[MG]

"We were wrong for the last ten years, we admit we will be wrong about the next ten years, BUT we are spot on for the century after that!!!"




And now, tomorrow's weather Chance of precipitation with partly cloudy skies except where sunny. Wind gusts are possible which will affect the perceived temperature ranging from 60F to a possible high of 84F.

[Act of God]

I love how people can just completely ignore thousands of years of history and buy into some half-brained theory that while the earth warmed and cooled since the beginning of time, THIS time it is because of humans and their evil carbon!

Glaciers covered parts of the US, Long Island was made by one IIRC (pushing down earth as it traveled south). The dinosaurs lived on an Earth with mucchhhhh higher temperatures than today, considering they were....reptiles and all.

And now we're supposed to believe that this (alleged) warming cycle is because of humans? Don't flatter yourself, you're not that important.

[MG]

I'd be happy with the Weather channel just getting this afternoon's weather right more than 60% of the time. The next ten years are not that big a concern to me.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by hkmb

It looks like I made the classic mistake. By attempting to imply that I thought that global warming denial was as stupid as evolution denial, I've brought the evolution deniers out of the woodwork (from which they popped, instantly, miraculously, and fully formed).

Ah well. The bible doesn't tell us about global warming, so it can't be happening.

I don't follow the bible, and I don't believe in god. Yet, I also know that evolution is a theory and not a fact. My belief, or non belief in religion has nothing to do with it.

[Act of God]

Originally Posted by revstriker

I don't follow the bible, and I don't believe in god. Yet, I also know that evolution is a theory and not a fact. My belief, or non belief in religion has nothing to do with it.

+1

It would be hard to find someone less religious than I am.

[MG]

You guys are ruining a perfectly good delusion for HKMB. He knows perfectly well that all conservatives are religious loons who look to GOD (or the closest preacher in charge of interpreting GOD's messages to the masses) for their political direction.

[LRM1]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Umm... By bringing up the ozone hole as an example, you're actually pushing the agenda of people who want to take action against global warming.

I think you're about my age, so I would hope that you'd remember this a bit more clearly. But let's recap for the young people out there.

- In the olden days, there wasn't a hole in the ozone layer, although it has always been thinner over the South Pole.
- From the middle of the 20th Century onwards, companies found that CFCs were incredibly useful. They were cheap, and they were brilliant as propellants in aerosols - such as deodorant and hairspray - and as refrigerants in fridges and air conditioners.
- But the CFCs, once used, rose up in the atmosphere, and attacked the ozone in the ozone layer. This led to a rapid thinning of the layer over the South Pole.
- The thinning of this layer caused large increases in dangerous UV radiation, not only in Antarctica, but in other places, such as Southern Australia, Southern Argentina, and Southern Chile. This can cause skin cancer.
- It was clear that if we kept using CFCs, the thinning would continue, and would spread North. There'd be huge increases in cancers, as well as a variety of other nasty things.
- So the world got together and had a chat. Everyone said "We have to do something about this, or we're in trouble." Governments worked together, and reached a series of agreements. The widespread use of CFCs was stopped, and more expensive, but less damaging, propellants . This all happened very quickly, and was an unusual example of governments actually getting their act together to do something useful. Even America didn't block it.
- As a result of this, the thinning of the ozone layer slowed, stopped, and eventually reversed.

So, you've pulled up an example where:

- The scientists were right.
- The threat was real.
- The threat was the result of human activity.
- Governments got together and did something about it.
- The solution cost money, but it was necessary.
- The solution worked, which is why we didn't all die in 2004, as you suggest.

Surely this is a useful lesson for the global warming "controversy". (I use the quotes because, as far as I can see, it's not a controversy in the rest of the world.) If there's a genuine, man-made threat to our well-being, it really makes sense to do something about it.



OK. It's all a conspiracy by left-wing scientists. Like gravity and evolution and combustion.

Yes, I do in fact remember all that-I also remember that in the middle fo the whole CFC controversy the scientists were claiming that even if we did away with thCFC's the damage would be irreversable. We were doomed and by now we should all be in the sand because the earth would have burned up. You can spin it anyway you like and no I am not a conpsiracy theorist, but can you deny that academia is not left wing?

I am not a religious man either, I do belive in God, but I am not pro or anti evolution, but I also agree it is not "fact". There is, in fact a missing piece to the puzzle that has yet to be explained or found. While that piece is missing, then evolution is not fact -that does not mean that I belive we were placed on this planet like chess pieces either.

I find it funny how people on the left attack anyone who disagrees with them as "ignorant, uneducated, religious nutcases" when their theories are questioned. A true scientist looks at both sides and knows that he in fact doesn't "know" anything for sure.

Ironically in a way, these very same scientists predicting doom and gloom were wrong about Saturday being a beautiful sunny day and yesterday's rain. Nature is not always predictable. Man has done much worse to the earth than we do now and nature has adapted.

The Industrial revolution shoved more polutants into the air than anything man does now - yet, there hasn't been a climate change. Since then again, we have released more damaging agents than the combined history of earth - yet earth has rebounded.

Even the understanding of the effects of nuclear weapons or accidents is now in question. After Chernobyl, scientists predicted that there would be no life in that area for thousands of years. 20+ years later and yes, there is radiation harmful to humans, but Pripyat has seen nature flourish. Flora and fauna have grown and multiplied and both are thriving.

Again, I am not anti envrionment-I belive in conservation, recycling, alternative fuels. What I am against is these eco-nazis for whom it is emotional, not scientific. Even one of the founders of Greenpeace has disowned the organization becasue he feels that they aren't rational.

[Glasgow Gold]

Originally Posted by LRM1

A true scientist looks at both sides and knows that he in fact doesn't "know" anything for sure.

Which is precisely why the man-made global warming nonsense that the Gorian-sponsored scientists have been pushing as "fact" is finally being debunked by more objective scientists.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by LRM1

Yes, I do in fact remember all that-I also remember that in the middle fo the whole CFC controversy the scientists were claiming that even if we did away with thCFC's the damage would be irreversable. We were doomed and by now we should all be in the sand because the earth would have burned up.

Really? Are you sure you're not developing a false memory there. It's certainly not something I ever saw. Except in that second Highlander movie. But that wasn't real. It was a movie. A crap one.

Originally Posted by LRM1

You can spin it anyway you like and no I am not a conpsiracy theorist, but can you deny that academia is not left wing?

OK. You've got me. Educated, intelligent people are left wing.

[Act of God]

Originally Posted by hkmb

OK. You've got me. Educated, intelligent people are left wing.

He said academia

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by Act of God

He said academia

As opposed to "people who can't get into academia because they're not bright enough"?

It's one of those "Why are they called the liberal elite?" questions, isn't it? You never hear about the "right-wing elite".