Why does everyone hate "socialist" healthcare here?

[len56]

In Canada, works fine for me. (nope, there aren't huge waits for doctors) (for me) (am I special?)

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[MTI]

Because we're American, land of the free and home of the brave. We prefer to pay more for mediocre results; it's our god given, hard fought right to choose which doctor we're not going to see until the chest and shooting pains down our left arm forces us to seek care . . . it's patriotic gosh darn it, nobody is going to take away our American way of dying.

[Yacht Master]

Originally Posted by len56

In Canada, works fine for me.

(nope, there aren't huge waits for doctors)

(for me)


(am I special?)

It will be interesting to see the impact the socialized medicine in the US will have on the low cost / discount Canadian Internet pharmacies.
Our problem is the doctors waiting rooms here in the US are full now and Obama care will add 40 million new patients.

[Gullwing]

Two years ago my evil evil evil evil... health care provider took all of two seconds to aprove my new $11,000.00 insulin pump. I am sure Obama woudl aprove it in half a second well I guess he would if I was a liberal minority on welfare.

Nothing like pissing off 85% of the population to help 5-10%. I like how he makes everyone buy healthcare even ones who can't afford it. And anyone who doesn't has to pay a ~$19,000.00 fine Obama helping the little person

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by len56

...(am I special?)...

You seem to be. My relatives in Victoria, BC have nothing but horror stories about their health care. Long lines and waits (two years for a knee replacement). I'm perfectly happy with the health care I have now and anything that could upset it or cost me more money is not welcomed. I worked for my level of care and won't apologize for it. I understand some people have less but I don't feel responsible to pay for theirs.

[Glasgow Gold]

See the experience of your fellow Canadian in the Germany thread. His story is typical of what I have heard. Who would want this system?!

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by len56

Why does everyone hate "socialist" healthcare here?

They don't like any word that begins with "socia". They think any such word or phrase - socialised, social club, social drinker, sociable, socialite ... - means Commie. These kneejerk reactions are why MG keeps having to get MRIs on his knees.

Originally Posted by len56

(am I special?)

Yes. In a good way.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by Gullwing

Two years ago my evil evil evil evil... health care provider took all of two seconds to aprove my new $11,000.00 insulin pump. I am sure Obama woudl aprove it in half a second well I guess he would if I was a liberal minority on welfare.

Nothing like pissing off 85% of the population to help 5-10%. I like how he makes everyone buy healthcare even ones who can't afford it. And anyone who doesn't has to pay a ~$19,000.00 fine Obama helping the little person

No diabetic people I know in Britain, Australia or Mainland Europe ever had any trouble getting the equipment they needed either.

The big difference is that they don't need to worry about their pre-existing condition when they get a new job or for any other reason need to change their healthcare providers.

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by hkmb

...The big difference is that they don't need to worry about their pre-existing condition when they get a new job or for any other reason need to change their healthcare providers.

True but this issue can easily be handled (and is in many cases) with relatively minor legislation/controls/agreements. Don't you think

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by mleskovar

True but this issue can easily be handled (and is in many cases) with relatively minor legislation/controls/agreements. Don't you think

Millions of people find that it isn't being handled. And I'd be surprised if the insurance companies would roll over and allow any legislation to handle it. They'd fight it legislatively, and they'd develop a similar propaganda campaign to the one they're doing now.

This one would have people saying "Do you think you pay more for your insurance just to help pay for people who eat donuts and smoke crack? Well, that's what the government wants you to do. By outlawing weighting and coverage refusal for pre-existing conditions, the government wants you to pay for the healthcare of diabetic, syphillitic, one-legged, obese heroin addicts. This is political correctness gone mad! Arrange some sort of "spontaneous" tea party to fight this!"

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Millions of people find that it isn't being handled. And I'd be surprised if the insurance companies would roll over and allow any legislation to handle it. They'd fight it legislatively, and they'd develop a similar propaganda campaign to the one they're doing now.

This one would have people saying "Do you think you pay more for your insurance just to help pay for people who eat donuts and smoke crack? Well, that's what the government wants you to do. By outlawing weighting and coverage refusal for pre-existing conditions, the government wants you to pay for the healthcare of diabetic, syphillitic, one-legged, obese heroin addicts. This is political correctness gone mad! Arrange some sort of "spontaneous" tea party to fight this!"

Believe me, if agreeing to mutual acceptance between large insurers would allow them to continue the status quo they would do it rather than turn the keys over totally to the government. Although the major insurers would probably still be involved they know their share of the pie will be reduced. They're already being challenged to eliminate the 2 years max wait time. Melodramatic, aren't we

[vraa]

Because 40 years from now we're going to be paying for all the fatasses who never exercised and ate fried food all day

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by mleskovar

Believe me, if agreeing to mutual acceptance between large insurers would allow them to continue the status quo they would do it rather than turn the keys over totally to the government. Although the major insurers would probably still be involved they know their share of the pie will be reduced. They're already being challenged to eliminate the 2 years max wait time. Melodramatic, aren't we

They'd still do everything they can to get out of it. They have a duty to their shareholders.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by len56

In Canada, works fine for me.

(nope, there aren't huge waits for doctors)

(for me)


(am I special?)

Read this thread,
you will know why!

Government Health Insurance = Reparations???

[LRM1]

Originally Posted by mleskovar

True but this issue can easily be handled (and is in many cases) with relatively minor legislation/controls/agreements. Don't you think

Don't waste your breath HKMB's solution for every problem is the government nurturing you because you deserve it.

He actually is a socialist comrade.

[LRM1]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Millions of people find that it isn't being handled. And I'd be surprised if the insurance companies would roll over and allow any legislation to handle it. They'd fight it legislatively, and they'd develop a similar propaganda campaign to the one they're doing now.

This one would have people saying "Do you think you pay more for your insurance just to help pay for people who eat donuts and smoke crack? Well, that's what the government wants you to do. By outlawing weighting and coverage refusal for pre-existing conditions, the government wants you to pay for the healthcare of diabetic, syphillitic, one-legged, obese heroin addicts. This is political correctness gone mad! Arrange some sort of "spontaneous" tea party to fight this!"

LOL.

They're loving this debate right now - nothing would be better for those evil insurance companies than FORCING people to get heal insurance. BAM!!, overnight, they just got 47 million new customers that they can screw-compliments of the well meaning, naive left.

Stop canceling people or not accepting them for pre-existing conditions? You must be joking, they'll accept them at a rate that will have Congress screaming abut the "high cost of health insurance" again in 4 years. Life insurance companies have no issue accepting pre existing conditions, smokers, dangerous jobs, none at all, you just pay twice as much as everyone else so that maybe in 50 years they may have to pay out the $100k out of the $200K they've collected.

Besides, we won't be able to "eat donuts and smoke crack". The Democrats are going to tax the snot out of snack and crack to pay for their grand scheme to make everyone healthy in the US.

I don't know what kind of business you're in, but it seems obvious to me that you have Not a clue how our systems work over here. Government legislation like this makes big companies salivate in anticipation. There are always work arounds and if there is one thing that the Democrats prove every time they are in office is that all those well meaning plans go to **** in less than a year and they create twice the problem they were dealing with in the first place.

[LRM1]

Originally Posted by len56

In Canada, works fine for me.

(nope, there aren't huge waits for doctors)

(for me)


(am I special?)

You must be. You're the only Canadian I've ever seen that is happy with their service. All I ever hear is if your life is threatened, it's good. If it's not life threatening have fun waiting for months on end to get treatment.

We can go to the doctor in the morning and by the next, have anything that ails us taken care of. Sure we pay more, but we decide where, when and how doctors treat us.

[Fast55]

Originally Posted by LRM1

LOL.

There are always work arounds and if there is one thing that the Democrats prove every time they are in office is that all those well meaning plans go to **** in less than a year and they create twice the problem they were dealing with in the first place.

Read and understand this folks. There has never been a single business in the history of our Country, that has become more cost effective and efficient after being taken over by the Government.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by MTI

We prefer to pay more for mediocre results; it's our god given, hard fought right to choose which doctor we're not going to see until the chest and shooting pains down our left arm forces us to seek care . . . it's patriotic gosh darn it, nobody is going to take away our American way of dying.

So you think the quality of our health care is "mediocre"? Interesting how the US has been the destination of many (including lots from the OP's country) to get treatment. And quite a few of us see our doctors on a regular basis. And for those who choose not to, I doubt Obama care would change that. So you really think there is no one in Canada who doesn't wait to see a doctor until the pain forces them?

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by revstriker

... So you really think there is no one in Canada who doesn't wait to see a doctor until the pain forces them?...

What I find interesting is the deciding factor in Canada for treatment. Pain and quality of life are not considered. Emergency treatment seems fine. If you require surgery because it just hurts, or stops you from performing some physical function that you can work around, get on the wait list. Advanced diagnostics like MRI, colonoscopy, etc? Wait list time. That's one reason they're going to court to allow (that's correct, ALLOW) private practice in Canada. http://www.latimes.com/search/dispat...ime+descending

[MTI]

Originally Posted by LRM1

You must be. You're the only Canadian I've ever seen that is happy with their service. All I ever hear is if your life is threatened, it's good. If it's not life threatening have fun waiting for months on end to get treatment.

Try a different diet of news and information sources, you might find it enlightening.

Most Canadians Happy With Their Healthcare System

80% of Canadians Happy With Healthcare System

However, 20 per cent of respondents to the telephone survey said they had to wait up to three times longer and that the extra wait caused added stress, anxiety and pain.

Canadians Not Miffed . . .

Thursday, Jul. 23, 2009 06:47PM EDT

The largest survey on primary health care ever conducted in Canada found that most people have high praise for their family doctor, and a staggering 92 per cent would recommend their physician to a relative or friend.

Canadians – except those living in Nunavut – have excellent access to primary health care: 85 per cent of people aged 12 and older have a regular doctor, and two thirds have been seeing the same doctor for five years or more, according to the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) study, released yesterday.

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by MTI

Try a different diet of news and information sources, you might find it enlightening....

You should read your sources more carefully before referring to them. From my perspective what you posted is not a pretty picture and it only scratched the surface with subjective things like "do they like their family doctor".

[Glasgow Gold]

Originally Posted by MTI

85 per cent of people aged 12 and older have a regular doctor

A meaningless factoid. Hardly reassuring.

[e1000]

Originally Posted by vraa

Because 40 years from now we're going to be paying for all the fatasses who never exercised and ate fried food all day

mmmmmmmm tempura.

[LRM1]

Originally Posted by MTI

Try a different diet of news and information sources, you might find it enlightening.

Most Canadians Happy With Their Healthcare System

80% of Canadians Happy With Healthcare System

However, 20 per cent of respondents to the telephone survey said they had to wait up to three times longer and that the extra wait caused added stress, anxiety and pain.

Canadians Not Miffed . . .

Thursday, Jul. 23, 2009 06:47PM EDT

The largest survey on primary health care ever conducted in Canada found that most people have high praise for their family doctor, and a staggering 92 per cent would recommend their physician to a relative or friend.

Canadians – except those living in Nunavut – have excellent access to primary health care: 85 per cent of people aged 12 and older have a regular doctor, and two thirds have been seeing the same doctor for five years or more, according to the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) study, released yesterday.

You mean of course drink YOUR Kool Aide.....

One of your sources is from 2002. I suppose I could find some 1982 sources showing complete satisfaction as well.

Even the one "study" states;

The report found small gaps in the management of the 40 per cent of Canadians who have chronic health conditions, including diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, emphysema and cancer.

Forty per cent of those with chronic illnesses reported they have no long-term treatment plan. Fewer than one quarter of these patients receive written instructions from their family doctor about how to manage their disease. Though this is not a clinical requirement, it is increasingly recognized as an important part of care.

Hmmm. Last time i checked, those are some pretty sketchy diseases. If the system is so great, and they have to wait, you'd think there might be a focus on that? The rest of the report talks about how "happy Canadians are with the family doctor, and how they'd recommend him" damn skippy, good for doctor Jones, wtf does that have to do with making my pain go away.

This gap in care may lead to unnecessary hospitalizations and emergency-ward visits as people's diseases progress more rapidly than they need to.

Cancer progresses more rapidly than it needs to?

What about "elective" surgeries? No mention of what happens when your shoulder hurts. Last month, I could barely move my arm. Within 24 hours I was at the doctor, got a shot, got meds, and in 36 hours fully functional again. Can a Canadian get that? Please point to the sources that show they can so I can add to my diet.

And finally shall we go to your first source?

atha Fortier, a former nurse who serves a director of the health care workers section of the Canadian Auto Workers.

Despite criticism from conservatives and grudging support for funding by Canada’s two major political parties, 85 percent of the Canadians are satisfied with the system, [u]noted Ron Drouillard, a former Ford employee, who is now president of the activist-oriented Windsor Worker Action Center[/U]. “You can always find exceptions,” he said.

So maybe I should go to the Obama administration and ask if people are happy with their healthcare. Do you think he'd tell me everything was fine?

Wow, I really hope you don't present evidence like this in court. I'd hate to be one of your clients.