China's Military Expanding

[S55inPA]

i doubt president dummy is paying attention.....but the rest of us should. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...7SMTwD9BLD8AG0

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[NdnMbLova]

This has been going on for the past 10 years.

[mleskovar]

It's a huge country with the largest population in the world, what do you expect? "China has boosted military spending by more than 10 percent annually for almost two decades, and the official figure of $71 billion this year is thought by many analysts to represent only a portion of total defense spending. It still amounts to only a fraction of U.S. defense spending." If they were doing it for reasons other than defense I would agree that there should be a cause for alarm but the only advances they've made on the world are economic....and they've done a good job at it.

[vraa]

If only USA were more like China...

wait what

[MotorWerkz]

They need to improve the condition of their soldiers and also, the salary of the soldiers must go up as well.

China should expand their military because it's a big nation. It's a shame if their military technology is eclipsed by its neighbors.

[vraa]

Originally Posted by MotorWerkz

They need to improve the condition of their soldiers and also, the salary of the soldiers must go up as well.

China should expand their military because it's a big nation. It's a shame if their military technology is eclipsed by its neighbors.

Yeah you know that un Militarized Japan, pacifist India or wait our buddy Pakistan haha geo politics is a like a really bad sitcom

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by S55inPA

i doubt president dummy is paying attention.....but
the rest of us should.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...7SMTwD9BLD8AG0

Could someone please explain to me why this is a cause for concern?

[Glasgow Gold]

China is not Iran, so military spending by itself is neither a surprise nor a major cause for concern.

The problem is that military spending is rarely just that by itself. Two issues:

One is that increased military spending creates a cycle. New organizations, new commanders and power bases are built that owners want to perpetuate. Eventually, those power structures can challenge neighbors and even the politicians in their own country.

Second is that one can never be certain what China will do with its increased military might. While they are generally a friend today (and we need to keep strengthening that friendship despite this development), we have certainly seen how that term is relative. Even now, we can't really say that they have been helpful at the UN with Iran.

Is it not outside the realm of possibility that a largely friendly emerging power today will be a problem child "tomorrow."

[S55inPA]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Could someone please explain to me why this is a cause for concern?

it is a cause for concern because the powers that be in China
do not have the appreciation for life that the West has. the
world today (for better or worse) looks the way it does because
of western ideals and values. if China is able to impose it's values on the
world......what would it look like. certainly not like it does today.
values are imposed not by diplomacy but by your military.

and what backs up your military? a strong economic engine.
while the dummies in DC are choking the life out of the goose
that has been laying the golden eggs.....the Chinese economy
grows, and grows, and grows some more. along with their military.
......someday we might see Chinese aircraft carrier groups
sitting off of our coasts dictating policy.

....and guess what. by then it will be to f#cking late.

[e1000]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Could someone please explain to me why this is a cause for concern?

Because in the world playground, the US is the big bully and we want to keep it that way.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by Glasgow Gold

China is not Iran, so military spending by itself is neither a surprise nor a major cause for concern.

Indeed. China is very much not Iran. Which is why I'm going out for a beer in half an hour (I'm in Beijing on business just now. And it's cold. F---ing cold. Winter has come a couple of weeks early. It should be 16C (61F) and sunny at this time of year, but it's -4C (28F or so) and snowing. And I have no coat. Arse!). Anyway, yes, it's a sensible, civilised country with beer and dissent and swearing and international tourism and no place for religion in government, and everything like that.

And yes, an increase in military spending isn't a surprise at all, given that GDP is increasing so dramatically. You'd expect a country that wants to be taken seriously as a global power to increase its military spending as it can afford to (which is probably more sensible than the traditional US approach of increasing its military spending when it can't afford to).

Originally Posted by Glasgow Gold

The problem is that military spending is rarely just that by itself. Two issues:

One is that increased military spending creates a cycle. New organizations, new commanders and power bases are built that owners want to perpetuate. Eventually, those power structures can challenge neighbors and even the politicians in their own country.

Second is that one can never be certain what China will do with its increased military might. While they are generally a friend today (and we need to keep strengthening that friendship despite this development), we have certainly seen how that term is relative. Even now, we can't really say that they have been helpful at the UN with Iran.

Is it not outside the realm of possibility that a largely friendly emerging power today will be a problem child "tomorrow."

Point 1 is certainly valid. But again, I don't see it as a massive problem. China's military spending is still less than 15% of America's, and a huge proportion of the spending goes on domestic military work - disaster relief and things like that. An increasing proportion goes on UN peacekeeping too.

As for point 2.... I'd say that China is actually more stable than most other countries - even, arguably, the US. It is my job to know these things, and war really is the last thing on the mind of anyone in the leadership. Several of the more bellicose people in the next generation of the leadership (and they still weren't what you'd call hawks) have had the rug pulled out from under them in the Party over the last couple of years. So the risk of who'll have control over these weapons in future isn't what it is in, say, Russia or Pakistan.

China's plans for increasing its political influence are focused far more on the economic and political sphere. You can see this very much in Africa and Latin America, where China's working very hard to build its presence. If I were someone like S55inPA and saw no room for mutual accommodation, it'd be this, rather than a military threat, that worried me. But China isn't looking for global domination, regardless of what some might think.

There is, astounding as it might seem to some, room for more than one major power. In fact, I'd say that two or more powers counterbalancing each other is rather healthier than a unipolar world.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by S55inPA

it is a cause for concern because the powers that be in China
do not have the appreciation for life that the West has.

What do you mean by this? I'm intrigued.

Originally Posted by S55inPA

the
world today (for better or worse) looks the way it does because
of western ideals and values. if China is able to impose it's values on the
world......what would it look like. certainly not like it does today.
values are imposed not by diplomacy but by your military.

And what makes you think their military (not mine: neither Britain nor Australia has that sort of power in China) is behind all of society's values? It's certainly not something I've seen. Again, I'd love to hear why you think this.

Originally Posted by S55inPA

and what backs up your military? a strong economic engine.
while the dummies in DC are choking the life out of the goose
that has been laying the golden eggs.....the Chinese economy
grows, and grows, and grows some more. along with their military.
......someday we might see Chinese aircraft carrier groups
sitting off of our coasts dictating policy.

....and guess what. by then it will be to f#cking late.

Are you saying that no country should have aircraft carrier groups sitting off coasts dictating policy?

Or that only the US should, as is the case now?

Are you actually just saying what e1000 said?

Originally Posted by e1000

Because in the world playground, the US is the big bully and we want to keep it that way.

Because it certainly sounds like that.

And FWIW, e1000, I'd say you summed it up nicely.

[MotorWerkz]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Indeed. China is very much not Iran. Which is why I'm going out for a beer in half an hour (I'm in Beijing on business just now. And it's cold. F---ing cold. Winter has come a couple of weeks early. It should be 16C (61F) and sunny at this time of year, but it's -4C (28F or so) and snowing. And I have no coat. Arse!). Anyway, yes, it's a sensible, civilised country with beer and dissent and swearing and international tourism and no place for religion in government, and everything like that.

And yes, an increase in military spending isn't a surprise at all, given that GDP is increasing so dramatically. You'd expect a country that wants to be taken seriously as a global power to increase its military spending as it can afford to (which is probably more sensible than the traditional US approach of increasing its military spending when it can't afford to).



Point 1 is certainly valid. But again, I don't see it as a massive problem. China's military spending is still less than 15% of America's, and a huge proportion of the spending goes on domestic military work - disaster relief and things like that. An increasing proportion goes on UN peacekeeping too.

As for point 2.... I'd say that China is actually more stable than most other countries - even, arguably, the US. It is my job to know these things, and war really is the last thing on the mind of anyone in the leadership. Several of the more bellicose people in the next generation of the leadership (and they still weren't what you'd call hawks) have had the rug pulled out from under them in the Party over the last couple of years. So the risk of who'll have control over these weapons in future isn't what it is in, say, Russia or Pakistan.

China's plans for increasing its political influence are focused far more on the economic and political sphere. You can see this very much in Africa and Latin America, where China's working very hard to build its presence. If I were someone like S55inPA and saw no room for mutual accommodation, it'd be this, rather than a military threat, that worried me. But China isn't looking for global domination, regardless of what some might think.

There is, astounding as it might seem to some, room for more than one major power. In fact, I'd say that two or more powers counterbalancing each other is rather healthier than a unipolar world.

I agree. China never try to dominate the world and never will. They just want to protect its homeland (Which includes Taiwan) from breaking apart.

on the second point, I also agree.

[RedG]

Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. China wanted Taiwan back, and will eventually want more.

[MotorWerkz]

Originally Posted by RedG

Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. China wanted Taiwan back, and will eventually want more.

and what makes you say that China wants more (let's say after acquiring Taiwan which previously China's)?

[markopolo]

I like China.

When you need to relax and just get away from it all ... may I suggest ... a day at the beach in China?

Makes the Jersey Shore look like a desert!



















So, where is Waldo?

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by MotorWerkz

I agree. China never try to dominate the world and never will. They just want to protect its homeland (Which includes Taiwan) from breaking apart.

on the second point, I also agree.

Originally Posted by RedG

Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. China wanted Taiwan back, and will eventually want more.

Hmmm..... you're both wrong.

RedG, you seem to be thinking that the Chinese leadership is like American Republicans, determined to invade everywhere for fun. Not everyone is like this.

Motorwerkz, Taiwan has been under the same government as China for four of the last 700 years. Before that, almost no ethnically-Chinese people lived there. Culturally and economically, Taiwan has little more to do with China than the US has to do with the UK. They speak the same language and are ethnically similar. Much of China's leadership realises this. They'll shout about sovereignty for domestic consumption, but they don't really care.

[vraa]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Hmmm..... you're both wrong.

RedG, you seem to be thinking that the Chinese leadership is like American Republicans, determined to invade everywhere for fun. Not everyone is like this.

Motorwerkz, Taiwan has been under the same government as China for four of the last 700 years. Before that, almost no ethnically-Chinese people lived there. Culturally and economically, Taiwan has little more to do with China than the US has to do with the UK. They speak the same language and are ethnically similar. Much of China's leadership realises this. They'll shout about sovereignty for domestic consumption, but they don't really care.

The UK is the largest US aircraft carrier, that is all.

[Quicktwinturbo]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I like China.

When you need to relax and just get away from it all ... may I suggest ... a day at the beach in China?

Makes the Jersey Shore look like a desert!



















So, where is Waldo?

That's Korea foo~~
Its fun though.... lotta hot ladies

[e1000]

Originally Posted by Quicktwinturbo

That's Korea foo~~
Its fun though.... lotta hot ladies

we all look the same anyway

[S55inPA]

Originally Posted by hkmb

What do you mean by this? I'm intrigued.



And what makes you think their military (not mine: neither Britain nor Australia has that sort of power in China) is behind all of society's values? It's certainly not something I've seen. Again, I'd love to hear why you think this.



Are you saying that no country should have aircraft carrier groups sitting off coasts dictating policy?

Or that only the US should, as is the case now?

Are you actually just saying what e1000 said?


Because it certainly sounds like that.

And FWIW, e1000, I'd say you summed it up nicely.

last i checked people were not dodging tanks protesting for freedom
in the US.

and you honestly think the values of the country don't dictate the
values and actions of it's military?

and yes when it comes to projecting power i feel a lot safer with
the values, morals, and culture of the west.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by S55inPA

last i checked people were not dodging tanks protesting for freedom
in the US.

and you honestly think the values of the country don't dictate the
values and actions of it's military?

and yes when it comes to projecting power i feel a lot safer with
the values, morals, and culture of the west.

...but at least they know how to save money...


Demands of Kidnapper & CHINESE Negotiators in action


"I have 3 demands or I'll kill the boy!"




Negotiators assess the situation from next door.




Head Negotiator dispatched




Negotiations begin




Negotiations concluded





They probably spent $0.35 cents.


• In our country, we would shut the street down for 48 hours.
• Take 12 hours to talk him out of it.
• Spend $5 million giving him a fair trial.
• And pay his food and lodging or life.
• Go figure.

No wonder their products are cheaper than ours.

[RobertG]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Hmmm..... you're both wrong.

RedG, you seem to be thinking that the Chinese leadership is like American Republicans, determined to invade everywhere for fun. Not everyone is like this.

Motorwerkz, Taiwan has been under the same government as China for four of the last 700 years. Before that, almost no ethnically-Chinese people lived there. Culturally and economically, Taiwan has little more to do with China than the US has to do with the UK. They speak the same language and are ethnically similar. Much of China's leadership realises this. They'll shout about sovereignty for domestic consumption, but they don't really care.

What makes you such an expert on China and its future plans or aspirations?
You dont know much about Americans and it's Republicans.

[S55inPA]

Originally Posted by markopolo

...but at least they know how to save money...


Demands of Kidnapper & CHINESE Negotiators in action


"I have 3 demands or I'll kill the boy!"




Negotiators assess the situation from next door.




Head Negotiator dispatched




Negotiations begin




Negotiations concluded





They probably spent $0.35 cents.


• In our country, we would shut the street down for 48 hours.
• Take 12 hours to talk him out of it.
• Spend $5 million giving him a fair trial.
• And pay his food and lodging or life.
• Go figure.

No wonder their products are cheaper than ours.

where is the aclu when you need them

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by vraa

The UK is the largest US aircraft carrier, that is all.

Well.... we were called "Airstrip One" in 1984. I think Orwell was pretty much right on the money there.