The difference between Americans and the Chinese

[zumbalak]

Stole this from elsewhere, pretty neat post. Pictures tell the whole story. The American And the Chinese

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[MB Guy]

God forbid Obama is respectful to someone else's cultures and traditions.

[Gullwing]

Originally Posted by MB Guy

God forbid Obama is respectful to someone else's cultures and traditions.

When it goes against culture and tradition he is leader of.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by MB Guy

God forbid Obama is respectful to someone else's cultures and traditions.

I don't think anyone wants him to be disrespectful. But there is a difference between a sign of respect, and a sign of subordinate. Bowing, particularly as low as Obama has bowed (in both cases), is a signal that he is subordinate to the person he is bowing to. Certainly not a sign that the leader of the United States should be demonstrating.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by zumbalak

Stole this from elsewhere, pretty neat post.

Pictures tell the whole story.

The American

Obama is meeting the ceremonial head of state of a crucial ally. He is demonstrating an understanding of, and a respect for, the culture of this ally. What he's doing is very important for the relationship between the two countries, especially in the light of public perception in Japan that America still thinks of Japan as little more than a colony: the bow was a useful move to help charm the Japanese public.

The bow was for Japanese consumption.

Given this, the bow was the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by zumbalak

And the Chinese

And Hu is working to define his country's relationship with Japan. Japan colonised much of China during WWII, and there's still massive anti-Japanese sentiment across China. China still has a huge inferiority complex about its relationship with Japan. Were Hu to bow to the Emperor, a large proportion of the Chinese population would have been appalled.

The handshake was for Chinese consumption.

Given this, the handshake was the right thing to do.

I wonder if the person you copied this from thought that it was what it is: a useful demonstration of the different domestic and international priorities that affect different leaders, and the complexities of the decisions they have to make over something as seemingly simple as a greeting. Maybe he did. Or maybe he was just some kneejerk right-wing idiot who made no effort to understand it, and thought it would just be another reason to have a pointless whinge about issues that are wat over his head.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by revstriker

I don't think anyone wants him to be disrespectful. But there is a difference between a sign of respect, and a sign of subordinate. Bowing, particularly as low as Obama has bowed (in both cases), is a signal that he is subordinate to the person he is bowing to. Certainly not a sign that the leader of the United States should be demonstrating.

You do know who he was bowing to, don't you? It wasn't just some bloke.

Do you think he should have taken W's approach to respectful international relations, and maybe just walked up to Empress Michiko and given her a back rub?

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Obama is meeting the ceremonial head of state of a crucial ally. He is demonstrating an understanding of, and a respect for, the culture of this ally. What he's doing is very important for the relationship between the two countries, especially in the light of public perception in Japan that America still thinks of Japan as little more than a colony: the bow was a useful move to help charm the Japanese public.

The bow was for Japanese consumption.

Given this, the bow was the right thing to do.

And what about the American consumption? You know, the people who actually elected him into office? I also noticed you left out the fact that the respect for which a bow represents is the respect of someone in a higher position than you. Bowing is a submissive gesture.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by hkmb

You do know who he was bowing to, don't you? It wasn't just some bloke.

What difference does it make? He was on official business representing the United States, and the Emperor certainly represents the country of Japan. No matter how many warm and fuzzies it gives you personally, it is NOT ok for the United States to bow to Japan.

[Jon2007E63P30]

Originally Posted by hkmb

He is demonstrating an understanding of, and a respect for, the culture of this ally.

He may be showing respect for it, but how deep he is bowing shows a complete lack of understanding. A bow that deep is one of a subordinate to their boss. No, he does not understand their culture.

No "bow" at all would be arrogance or the position of someone who has defeated you. We did no bowing on the deck of the USS Missouri, but now we are allies, and good ones. He should have given the slightest of bend at the waist, just as the Japanese "Emporer" did.

The handshake was a recognition of western culture.

The Chinese understand Japan culture better than Obama does. No bow means, "up yours", and the handshake is for the international community.

[M1M2M3]

in the jungle a lion won't bow to a mouse.

Don't take this to say that I mean for him to be arrogant or disrespectful. If you're shaking hands you're shaking hands, I'm not going to hold a mans hands and bow my head to his waist. If you are both bowing, then you're both bowing, and I wouldn't bow that low.

[NdnMbLova]

Isn't Obama like 6'2 and that little Japanese guy like 5'8. Although that bow is pretty deep.

[Mister Brenton]

Originally Posted by revstriker

What difference does it make? He was on official business representing the United States, and the Emperor certainly represents the country of Japan. No matter how many warm and fuzzies it gives you personally, it is NOT ok for the United States to bow to Japan.

You do realize that HK successfully trolls you just about every day, right?

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by Mister Brenton

You do realize that HK successfully trolls you just about every day, right?

Yes. My comments are not so much directed at him. I know he will always look at things with his anti-American glasses. My comments are more for others who might read HK's propaganda and think he has a point.

[Mister Brenton]

Originally Posted by revstriker

Yes. My comments are not so much directed at him. I know he will always look at things with his anti-American glasses. My comments are more for others who might read HK's propaganda and think he has a point.

Understood

[Kaz]

Originally Posted by hkmb

the bow was a useful move to help charm the Japanese public.

wrong again.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/1...like-an-idiot/


"So much of an idiot, in fact, that according to Tapper’s source, at least one Japanese paper isn’t running the photo out of embarrassment. "

[Mister Brenton]

We have located actual footage taken during Obama's most recent VIP state dinner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P5qJAI9BIc

[rockjock]

Originally Posted by Mister Brenton

We have located actual footage taken during Obama's most recent VIP state dinner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P5qJAI9BIc

LMFAO-I spit water all over my desk....nice job.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by Kaz

wrong again.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/1...like-an-idiot/


"So much of an idiot, in fact, that according to Tapper’s source, at least one Japanese paper isn’t running the photo out of embarrassment. "

Good read. I like this part:

"For one thing, his protocol office is famously run by imbeciles. They may very well have simply given him bum advice: “Be sure to hunch way the hell over and stare at the ground. They all do it that way.”

[Mister Brenton]

I like the alternate explanation - He began to shake hands and happened to notice his own reflection on the top of his highly shined wingtips.

[MG]

Reid and Pelosi were simultaneously hit with the need to nap and suddenly, no one was holding his strings. Like all Marionettes, he simply slumped.

[Jon2007E63P30]

Originally Posted by MG

Reid and Pelosi were simultaneously hit with the need to nap and suddenly, no one was holding his strings. Like all Marionettes, he simply slumped.

I don't care who you are , that's funny.
If you don't think that's funny, get the h3ll out of here.

[Moviela]

With all due respect to HKMB's thoughts on the subject, Pres. Obama should hire someone to explain protocol to him. It is not his place to bow deeply to the son of the man who bombed Pearl Harbor.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by revstriker

And what about the American consumption? You know, the people who actually elected him into office?

The people who elected him into office? Surely their opinions don't matter: as far as you're concerned, they're all idiots.

Originally Posted by revstriker

I also noticed you left out the fact that the respect for which a bow represents is the respect of someone in a higher position than you. Bowing is a submissive gesture.

No, kowtowing is a submissive gesture. I will concede that Obama perhaps bowed lower than he should have done, but it was a bow, not a kowtow.

You appear to be suggesting that he shouldn't bother to respect other cultures or use gestures common in the countries that he's visiting.

Perhaps next time he visits Japan, he should just give Akihito a high-five. But then you'd criticise him for being disrespectful.

Or he could shake Akihito's hand. But then you'd criticise him for shaking his hand for too long, or not long enough. Or for shaking his hand when everyone knows that you should greet the Emperor of Japan with a bow: what sort of idiot is Obama, refusing to respect the head of state of one of America's most important allies?

I think the key mistake that Obama made in your eyes here was that he had the audacity to be President of the US. The man should know his place.

[hkmb]

Originally Posted by Moviela

With all due respect to HKMB's thoughts on the subject, Pres. Obama should hire someone to explain protocol to him. It is not his place to bow deeply to the son of the man who bombed Pearl Harbor.

Indeed. This sort of respect for history is the reason that, every time Gordon Brown meets Angela Merkel, he punches her in the face.

[Jon2007E63P30]

Originally Posted by hkmb

Indeed. This sort of respect for history is the reason that, every time Gordon Brown meets Angela Merkel, he punches her in the face.

It is so fortunate that you are not the best thing from Australia or GMs products would be sooooo much worse.