LetsJet

2004 S600

I took my car to the dealer because of one sensor being bad in the right rear wheel. When the dealer told me it was $600 to replace I told him forget it. Unfortunately, what ever he did caused the whole system not to come up now. So instead of not getting a reading on one wheel I get no readings and a failure warning on the dash that I keep having to hit the reset button for.

Is the info regarding the system in the CD you all talk about getting from the dealer? I'd like to learn more about the system in the '04 and deal with this myself as my car was under warranty and they denied it.

Thanks

LetsJet

Here are some pictures.

1. Showing the malfunction



2. Sometimes the yellow warning lamp for tire pressure comes on too. Though this is less frequent.

kenstudios

The sensor from tirerack.com work well with your system and cost a fraction of dealer cost. They just dont have the MB logo on them but who'll see it anyway. Check them out. As far as your warranty, keep in mind your original warranty expires on the 48th month from delivery date so even if you have an 04 but took delivery say Nov 03, your warranty will expire Nov 07 so check your delivery date on that. The repair discs are worth every penny if you are a DIY kind of guy.

LetsJet

Thank you..... The car is out of warranty now - It wasn't when I took the car in. I was so upset that the dealer: 1. wouldn't cover it under warranty 2. Was going to charge $600 to change one sensor. 3. Made the problem worse.... That I just let it go so I didn't go postal on them. Now, the calmer me would like to get the issue resolved.

I'm not sure now just replacing the one sensor would stop the malfunction as I don't get a reading from any of the tires.

Also, do you know if the "repair disks" detail this issue?

my06clk

You can reset your TPMS from you mfd but if there is a bad sensor, you will always get that visit workshop message everytime you start the car.

I would spend the 350.00 and replace them all. This is what I did and I have been happy every since.

Unfortunately there is not a lot of diagnostic info available. This is why most of the Dealer techs are limited to how much troubleshooting they can do in the system and will almost always take the route of changing out one sensor or the other. Issue with that is that they use their standard labor rate for removing the tire, remounting, balancing etc... plus swapping the sensor. This is why its just not worth the effort letting them do the work.

IF you buy the sensors from Tire rack, go to a tire shop like discount tire and have them install the sensors since they are a tire shop, they will only charge you for mount and dismount like they do every customer..

Then you can reset you system right in their parking lot and be finished.

LetsJet

I was hoping to get some definitive answers in this thread so that others that search in the future would be helped.

I'd like the actual MB spec information


Here is what I learned from Tire Rack :

You can only purchase these by calling and they can't be ordered online.
For 2004 S600 it specs a 315mhz Beru RDE004 for $80. This car also requires a longer metal valve stem (49mm) $9.50

Also - I just contacted a Goodyear tire location given to me by TireRack and asked them if they car change this out. They told me it has to go to the dealer because they don't have the tool to reset it (retrain).

LetsJet

Beru TSS Tire Safety System List of availability in the following vehicles

http://www.beru.com/english/produkte/tss/tabelle.php

Mercedes-Benz
E-Class AMG (W/S 210 AMG) 07.1999 - 03.2002
CL (C 215) 07.1999 - 09.2005
CLS (C 219) 10.2004
S-Class (W 220) 07.1999 - 09.2005
SL Roadster (R 230) 10.2001 - 05.2005
E-Class (W/S 211) 03.2002 - 05.2005
SLR (R 199) 04.2004 -
Actros *** 01.2004 -

my06clk

If this is what you are okay with then fine.. BUt this means that I have been living in some sort of dream world since at least last September here's why:

1. I ordered my sensors online,

2. Anybody with a small wrench ca change the sensors because changing them has nothing to do with resetting them. Unfortunately I must be mistaken as mine must have just installed themselves somehow....

3. The sensors for you car are exactly the same as mine... ( longer stem and all...) so that means eithe you are being fed so much B.S to the point of confusion, or I am the biggest liar on this forum. ( no offense.. )..

But one of us has sensors that are working.

dude..

everybody will make this out to be harder than it is... t takes about 2 seconds. ( mins drive time ) to reset TPMS on your car and it DOES NOT have to be done at the dealer.. You do using you steering controls.

Don't get confused by TMI.

TireRack ( bless their hearts ) will assign installer based on where you live and give you a chioce.. THat does NOT mean the place they suggest is reliable, OR competent. IT only means that they fel within your zip code area and that they install tires purchased form somewhere else that's all.

LetsJet

If you ordered them online with TireRack could you provide an item number or a link? I'm not disagreeing as I went to Beru's website and read some good info there.


Is there a way to check that a sensor is working before they are installed?

my06clk

You would just go by the vehicle. As I stated, put your order as if you are buying wheels and it will automatically give you the option to select TMPS. Once you add TMPS delete the wheels from your shopping cart. I looked at my Emailed order confirmation but the stock number was not listed. I don't have the paper invoice anymore sorry.

Don't worry much abot getting the wrong part. Most if not all of the 315Mhz BERU PT's are all the same. The only difference is the size of the valve stem that comes matched to your car. but even those are similar.

As far as the testing goes, no there is not. However I can say from experience that unlike the dealer I had a sensor reading weird after about 3 weeks and I called Tire Rack and told them. They Fedex me another one, and reuinded me the money that I paid to have it swapped out once I sent them the old one no questions asked.. The bad sensor was a fluke.. but these things happen.. the replacement works flawlessly.

BTW. when you finally see your factory sensors you will see that they are Beru sensors as well. They just have the MB logo stamped on them.

LetsJet

Thanks, I'll see if I can order that way.

my06clk

Good deal.

BTW. I failed to mention is there a Discount Tire near you? They began servicing TPMS about 5 months ago system wide. They don't know the ins and outs of every car like reset, but they can install a sensor. They actually carry them also. I don't know their prices either. But that's another avenue for installation for you.

If you have any issues with your online order from TR. Just call ( which you will have to do anyway if there is a problem ), and get Luke to work it out for you.

LetsJet

Your TR advice worked.... Thanks

Now, do you know enough about the system to understand how it knows which sensor is on a wheel? Is there a receiver close to each wheel well? Otherwise how would it know that sensor 1 is on the right rear?

my06clk

Yes there is a receiver located in each wheel, and each of those receivers send a signal to a central module which connects to the cars system via can-bus.

Because of the setup, there is no way to report the wrong wheel unless it was wired wrong from the start. I have a pic of the receiver that are located in the front under the hood. The rears are the same but I don't know where they are.

Here are pics of the front receivers..

LetsJet

Ok, that makes sense......... proximity to the receiver above the wheel well must be how it detects it.

Skylaw

Yeccchhh. I think my main TPMS module has failed. It gave me readouts on tire pressures, but was failing to give the warning when any pressure was low. Seeing some pressures that normally triggered a warning (but did not) I deliberately lowered one tire to 3 psi below MB's pressure recommendation, and still no warning.

I selected the tire pressure readout and pressed "reset" - got a choice to have TPMS active, or not - chose "yes" and got a message saying TPMS was being reset and would be available shortly. Then, I got a longer message saying that TPMS had been reset and tire pressure readings would be available after I drove for several minutes (usually, mine has displayed after just seconds in motion).

Now, nothing. It remains on the last message, despite drives of up to 30 minutes. Fortunately, the car is still under warranty.

LetsJet

Same as me right when I got it back from the dealer. I'm hoping changing the sensors will fix it.

my06clk

Good luck with the warranty Skylaw..

Just so you know, you have to drive continuous for a while for the system to read sometimes... usually 10 or 12 miles have been my max. If it sees a problem, it will never reset and when you stop and restart the car you will get a visit workshop notice and sometimes the little yellow light on the dash.

If you are parked and try to deflate the tire, it will not give you an alarm until it sees a 6 or 8 lb difference I forgot which but 3 is not enough to et the alarm. That goes for inflating also. If there is more than 6 or 8 lbs added to any tire, fill it while the car is off otherwise you will get a big red warning..

I have been saying this for a while now, but about 2 to 3 years and the factory sensors are done... better to start considering full replacement if any failures occur because others will follow soon.


OH yeah I forgot something important...

TPMS system doesn't care what the MB specs are to work. 28, 32, 35, 40psi, it doesn't matter. the system will still function.
What does matter is the differential between the 4 readings. there can not be anymore that a 6 psi difference in any one sensor otherwise it gets mad.

The reason for the wide range it that during some conditions, you will have a 3 to 4 psi swing in tire pressure at any given moment. for example, if you put 32psi in your tire, you may drive around all day in the heat and notice that it is reading 34 or even 35 psi.. Then let it sit the rest of the weekend and get in it monday to go to work and it reads 29 sitting in the garage..

These are normal conditions, but if there wasn't a wide span the system would fault out all he time and become a total nuisance. So this differential is built into the module to prevent false TPMS warnings.

Just thought I'd share those two points with you...

Skylaw

Thanks, MY - I'll give a longer drive a try. I've done only 4 miles or so at a time since resetting.

What you said about the comparisons with other pressures is sensible - except that I have had warnings when tires were only 1 psi blow target cold pressure, and only 3 psi below the highest reading.

my06clk

I've seen this before also but the problem was that the sensor was 'drifting' out of range causing the warning to go off and by the time I looked at it it was only 1 or 2 psi from the rest.

I ended up driving around with my tire pressures displayed all the time so that i could see what it was doing. ( so much for the safety factor...). Anyway what I discovered was that the sensor for the wheel that kept giving me the fault would suddenly raise its reading as if the tire was being aired before my eyes.. then it would suddenly drop back to its regular reading..
Every once in a while it would raise more that 5 or 6 psi and BAM.. fault. IT took me a while to figure it out as I had to drive and watch, but I had the sensor replaced ( again ) and hat was the problem.


In General you should not get a fault for 1 or 2 psi difference.

2k2s430

I am with all of you regarding the TPMS malfunction. Am I understanding correctly that you can replace the the sensors without removing the tire? I was told the tire would have to be taken off of the rim. If this can be done DIY that would be great!!!!

my06clk

No sir. You must remove the tire.

BTW. You have TPMS in your 2002 S430? Cars that year had the old 433mhz systems.. They are not as friendly as the 315mhz.

Scollard

I recently replaced my 4 TPMS sensors. Once one fails, usually because the battery is dead, it's best to replace them all. I bought mine from Tire Rack ($80 ea) with new stems ($10 ea). I got a quote from a Les Schwab shop ($80 for all 4) to replace the sensors and took the car to them. They replaced all 4 sensors, but here is the catch, they had to cut off the valves because they had oxidized to the point where they could not be removed otherwise. Now my shop was very careful, and did not damage the rims, and they honored their quotation, but if they don't come off easy you want to make sure the shop doesn't make matters worse. As for resetting the sensors, I have found it usually takes a good 10 miles at highway speeds before they start registering.

I think the stealership charges so much because they know that they may destroy the wheel and that you will have paid enough for a replacement if that happens.

my06clk

Glad to hear that they honored their quote..

I have never heard of that happening... BUt you live in a SNOW State so these thing are totally possible.... I gues this would be a drawback of having screw on valve stems but the whole "had to cut them off" thing seems wierd since they do screw on and "shouldn't" be torque too much since there is a rubber seal behind..

Anyway thanks for sharing that...

brakel8

I've been reading your posts on TPM and have gotten some great info but I should clarify a few things. MB has 4 different TPM systems, 1 version of Beru , 2 versions of Siemens, 1 version has no wheel sensors in wheels and 1version-schradder.

The Beru is the worst of all!!!!! Way too sensitive and a pain to diagnose. The dealer hates this version under warranty because MB requires print outs that shows a current and stored fault for the sensor before they can replace a sensor. The kicker is once you re set through the cluster all stored codes and sensor serial number's are erased (if the car is under warranty do not re set the system). Once re set, you have to drive the car up to 20 min for the system to recognize all the sensors and assign location as long as the tire pressures are set correctly and the system isn't faulty. I recomend using a digital tire pressure gauge to set pressures, also make sure it's done when the tires are cold. Whatever you set the pressures to, the system will set them as the "specified pressures" from here the module will know what the base line is (just make sure that the 2 fronts are the same pressure and the 2 rears are the same pressure, the system will not set if there is a difference between left and right ). This system consist of 4 sensors 315mhz, 4 antennas (located in the fender wells) and 1 module.

The next Beru is in 05 SL's and S's, this system has 4 sensors 315mhz, 1 module and 1 antenna. This system does not display pressures on the dash.

The Siemmen's is on the 07 S's and SL's, this system has 4 sensors 433mhz, 1 module and 1 antenna. This version displays pressures.

The Schradder is in the 08's and consists of 4 sensors 433mhz and 1 module with built in antenna. This system know location of sensors by rotational direction of sensor and signal strength (weaker signal front sensor, direction of rotation depicts left or right).

The SUV's (ML, R, GL) all run on 433mhz for 07 and on. The 06 ML, R, SLK uses wheel speed values from ESP to determine low tire pressure (the lower the air pressure the faster the tire will rotate, compare it with the other wheels and if it see's a significant difference it will turn on a malfunction light.

The antenna's for the Beru TPM are about 8 inches long and about 1/2 wide hidden behind the wheel wells. The picture that is shown in a previous post is actually the body acceleration sensors for the suspension.

As far as what the dealer charges....it basically has to do with special tool cost and standing behind the repair for 1 year unlimited miles. If they were to put an after market sensor in and the vehicle was driven across country and it had a problem with such sensor, MB would deny the claim as it was not their sensor. I know I wouldn't want to pay for the same repair again! If it's their sensor you can go to any MB dealer and have it fix under warranty even if you put it in yourself as long as you have proof of purchase.

I'm offering this info just to help understand the differences not to upset anyone.