S500 Transmission kickdown problem
05-16-2009, 05:32 PM
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S500 Transmission kickdown problem
I have a 2001 S500 and a couple of times whenever I tried to pass a car I tramped down to go into the passing gears, the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd gears would not engage. It felt like it was in neutral but was in 4th or 5th. I drove in those gears even if I stopped the car at a stop sign. I had to start out in 4th or 5th gear.
When I turned off the car, and started the car, everything was normal. I tried to replicate the problem again, but couldn't, and this is the second time is about six weeks it happened.
When I turned off the car, and started the car, everything was normal. I tried to replicate the problem again, but couldn't, and this is the second time is about six weeks it happened.
05-17-2009, 08:38 AM
#3
If you mash the gas pedal and it just sits and spins, your clutches are bad inside gears 1-3. If it only happens every once in a while, there are several things that could be wrong.
The basic test is to pull the transmission dip stick and smell the fluid. If it smells like sulfur, your transmission fluid has been cooked by burnt up clutch packs. A complete transmission overhaul is needed.
If the fluid smells fine, the torque converter may be failing. If the little turbine inside is "twisting" under stress, it can get "stuck" and fail to build pressure inside the transmission (this isn't really what happens, but in layman's terms, it's a valid description). That probably isn't the problem. What is likely to be the problem is that your valve body inside the transmission is going bad. Or possibly the filter is clogged. Pray for the clogged filter, but brace yourself for the bad valve body. If you have a bad valve body it may or may not need to be replaced. There are small check ***** inside and around the valve body that may be getting stuck as well. If this is the case, it's a 50 cent part and a 5 minute fix.
Find yourself a reputable transmission shop and have them take a look. This is going to be expensive most likely. If you are feeling froggy and trust in your own skills, drop the transmission pan and replace the filter. Take the old filter and cut it open. If you see metallic debris, you have more problems than the filter. If you let your transmission shop do the work, make sure they tell you exactly what they did and why the transmission failed. Tell them to keep the bad parts. 99% of people have no idea how an automatic transmission works, and most shops know that and will screw you to the wall over a $2.00 fix. Do some research and go to the shop educated. Make sure they know that you know your stuff. That way they'll be less likely to screw you over for no reason.
05-17-2009, 08:43 AM
#4
One other thing. Since the S-class transmission is electronic, some of the solenoids inside the transmission could be going bad as well.
Along with smelling your transmission fluid, another first step would be to disconnect the connectors from the computer to the transmission and clean the everything with connector cleaner. If you have dirt and crap inside those connectors, it's possible that the solenoids aren't firing correctly.
Along with smelling your transmission fluid, another first step would be to disconnect the connectors from the computer to the transmission and clean the everything with connector cleaner. If you have dirt and crap inside those connectors, it's possible that the solenoids aren't firing correctly.
05-17-2009, 09:29 AM
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2005 S500 4-Matic, 1978 450SL
The W220 also has a known problem with a seal for the electrical connector to the tranny. If tranny fluid has leaked into the connector, it may be interfering with the shift program. It would be related to the problem mentioned by c131frdave. Check for a small oily leak under the car.
Fortunately, it's an inexpensive fix, and a DIY project that has been written up a number of times here and on BenzWorld.
Fortunately, it's an inexpensive fix, and a DIY project that has been written up a number of times here and on BenzWorld.
Last edited by Skylaw; 05-17-2009 at 09:32 AM.
05-17-2009, 12:27 PM
#6
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There also isn't a dip stick inside the trans tube; the stick is a factory tool purchased separately. Burnt is burnt, but amber or brown fluid is not necessarirly bad on a 722.6 or dot 9 trans, nor is fluid that smells earthy like 80/90wt gear oil. Whats more important is the size and composition of debris found in the pan. Worn clutch material is expected, metal debris above 1-2mm is not.
As of early 2009, service interval is now every 39K miles.
03-21-2010, 04:14 PM
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I have 2004 s430 and had mine replace the valve body twice in about every 35000 miles (it's a waranty case with an extended warranty 7 years 100000miles), but second event was not as easy as the first incident. MB delaer differenciate original 50000miles warranty and the extended portion. Mine stucked on the 4th gear, as I checked by manually shifted and noticed that it stucked on 4th. and if I switched off the iginition and restarted then it worked normally again. I believe MB has a fundamental problem with this transmission, either mechanically or electronically and I don't know what to do when this transmission acting up beyond the warranty. Sugestions are welcome.
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03-25-2010, 01:42 PM
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04 S430 (sold),05 X5 4.4i, 02 325i, 87 560SL, 85 Alfa Romeo
I have 2004 s430 and had mine replace the valve body twice in about every 35000 miles (it's a waranty case with an extended warranty 7 years 100000miles), but second event was not as easy as the first incident. MB delaer differenciate original 50000miles warranty and the extended portion. Mine stucked on the 4th gear, as I checked by manually shifted and noticed that it stucked on 4th. and if I switched off the iginition and restarted then it worked normally again. I believe MB has a fundamental problem with this transmission, either mechanically or electronically and I don't know what to do when this transmission acting up beyond the warranty. Sugestions are welcome.
This has all happened in the past three weeks or so. I had my car in the shop for a replacement the day before my Dealer got the bad news.. They had my car for two weeks waiting for the new replacement from Germany. I got tired of the C300, and had to go out of town on business so I went and got my car back. They have been calling me this week telling me that the part has arrived finally so I am preparing to return it for repair. I'm going to keep the old part but I'm really curious to see what the changes are.
08-07-2010, 04:17 PM
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2006 S500, 2004 LX470
I have a 2006 W220 S500 with the extended warranty. (only has 31K on odometer) A week ago I noticed that my car was also stuck in 4th. How, at 70 mph it was @ 3500 rpm (way too high). I pulled over and turned if off and restarted which did the trick. Today it worked fine for about 30 miles and then the car just lost power (engine revving but not driving the wheels). Pulled carefully over to the side of the freeway and turned it off and restarted. That trick worked for about 4 miles and then the car had no power, tried the trick again it worked again and I got it to the dealership.
The lone service writer thought it might be a valve body. Anyway now I have a C300 as a loaner and it is not as nice as the S class. Thanks to this thread I think I know what the problem is and what the fix will be.
The lone service writer thought it might be a valve body. Anyway now I have a C300 as a loaner and it is not as nice as the S class. Thanks to this thread I think I know what the problem is and what the fix will be.
04-19-2012, 11:28 PM
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2003 Mercedes-Benz S500, 2002 Acura MDX Touring
The gears in an automatic transmission don't slip. They are planetary gears that are permanently meshed. The clutch packs are what slip. Each gear has a series of clutch packs made of friction material (similar to your brake pads) that force the gear to stall and go into a direct drive configuration. So while in first gear, all 5 gears are spinning. Shift to second, the clutch pack stalls gear one and gears 2-5 spin, and so on (depending on transmission configuration, of course.)
If you mash the gas pedal and it just sits and spins, your clutches are bad inside gears 1-3. If it only happens every once in a while, there are several things that could be wrong.
The basic test is to pull the transmission dip stick and smell the fluid. If it smells like sulfur, your transmission fluid has been cooked by burnt up clutch packs. A complete transmission overhaul is needed.
If the fluid smells fine, the torque converter may be failing. If the little turbine inside is "twisting" under stress, it can get "stuck" and fail to build pressure inside the transmission (this isn't really what happens, but in layman's terms, it's a valid description). That probably isn't the problem. What is likely to be the problem is that your valve body inside the transmission is going bad. Or possibly the filter is clogged. Pray for the clogged filter, but brace yourself for the bad valve body. If you have a bad valve body it may or may not need to be replaced. There are small check ***** inside and around the valve body that may be getting stuck as well. If this is the case, it's a 50 cent part and a 5 minute fix.
Find yourself a reputable transmission shop and have them take a look. This is going to be expensive most likely. If you are feeling froggy and trust in your own skills, drop the transmission pan and replace the filter. Take the old filter and cut it open. If you see metallic debris, you have more problems than the filter. If you let your transmission shop do the work, make sure they tell you exactly what they did and why the transmission failed. Tell them to keep the bad parts. 99% of people have no idea how an automatic transmission works, and most shops know that and will screw you to the wall over a $2.00 fix. Do some research and go to the shop educated. Make sure they know that you know your stuff. That way they'll be less likely to screw you over for no reason.
If you mash the gas pedal and it just sits and spins, your clutches are bad inside gears 1-3. If it only happens every once in a while, there are several things that could be wrong.
The basic test is to pull the transmission dip stick and smell the fluid. If it smells like sulfur, your transmission fluid has been cooked by burnt up clutch packs. A complete transmission overhaul is needed.
If the fluid smells fine, the torque converter may be failing. If the little turbine inside is "twisting" under stress, it can get "stuck" and fail to build pressure inside the transmission (this isn't really what happens, but in layman's terms, it's a valid description). That probably isn't the problem. What is likely to be the problem is that your valve body inside the transmission is going bad. Or possibly the filter is clogged. Pray for the clogged filter, but brace yourself for the bad valve body. If you have a bad valve body it may or may not need to be replaced. There are small check ***** inside and around the valve body that may be getting stuck as well. If this is the case, it's a 50 cent part and a 5 minute fix.
Find yourself a reputable transmission shop and have them take a look. This is going to be expensive most likely. If you are feeling froggy and trust in your own skills, drop the transmission pan and replace the filter. Take the old filter and cut it open. If you see metallic debris, you have more problems than the filter. If you let your transmission shop do the work, make sure they tell you exactly what they did and why the transmission failed. Tell them to keep the bad parts. 99% of people have no idea how an automatic transmission works, and most shops know that and will screw you to the wall over a $2.00 fix. Do some research and go to the shop educated. Make sure they know that you know your stuff. That way they'll be less likely to screw you over for no reason.
I have a strange noise in my 2003, S500 and no one seems to know what it is. The acceleration in my 2003 S500 was smooth as silk when I brought it 5 months ago until I ended up changing the ABC pump, the Alternator the Harmonic Balancer, MAF sensor, new Engine mounts and the wheel pulley. Despite all these changes now the engine just seems too tight and when I press on the accelerator, it feels like the car is kinda driving on the 4th gear rather than the D or 5th. It feels like the car is straining due to some "tightness" and dont feel the Glide anymore. When I ease up on the accel pedal, it seems like the car slows down faster than it used to before as basically I havee a rough ride. Also I feel the gas consumption is a bit too high than normal. Its this terrrible rough ride and the AAMCO people have ruled out any Transmission issues after their diagnosis. I had someone else tell me that the Transmission needs to be rebuilt and the front pump, the bushings and the Torque converter are busted without even looking closely at it or doing any diagnostics and would cost $ 6000 !!!!!! The Transmission oil level is perfect and the oil is still green without any foul smell !!!!! sometimes I do think the shifting is a bit rough as it gives me a slight jerk while movingg from 1st gear to 2nd. Can you please tell me what you think??? Any immediate assistance would be greatly appreciated Dave.
Last edited by steadystud; 04-19-2012 at 11:40 PM. Reason: ....
05-16-2012, 04:03 PM
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1987 300d turbo , 81 6.9sl
REPLACING THE CONNECTOR IS PUTTING CAULK ON WINDOW CRACK
1999-2004 The multi-pin connector will leak but not from it's own failure in most cases. The valve body conductor plate craks,fluid vents thru the connector. Most "local shop" techs only think to replace the connector,give you a 30 day warranty and send you out the door only to find within next 10-15k miles the leak is still there.
Some second hand Benx lot's will do this to pinch pennies. Replacing the conductor plate will usually suffice without getting greedy and selling someone the valve body too.
Some second hand Benx lot's will do this to pinch pennies. Replacing the conductor plate will usually suffice without getting greedy and selling someone the valve body too.
08-07-2012, 04:10 PM
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1999-2004 The multi-pin connector will leak but not from it's own failure in most cases. The valve body conductor plate craks,fluid vents thru the connector. Most "local shop" techs only think to replace the connector,give you a 30 day warranty and send you out the door only to find within next 10-15k miles the leak is still there.
Some second hand Benx lot's will do this to pinch pennies. Replacing the conductor plate will usually suffice without getting greedy and selling someone the valve body too.
Some second hand Benx lot's will do this to pinch pennies. Replacing the conductor plate will usually suffice without getting greedy and selling someone the valve body too.
08-09-2012, 01:24 AM
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2003 S500, 03 C240, 03 E320, 03 tahoe
are you sure the oil is green?
Hi Dave,
I have a strange noise in my 2003, S500 and no one seems to know what it is. The acceleration in my 2003 S500 was smooth as silk when I brought it 5 months ago until I ended up changing the ABC pump, the Alternator the Harmonic Balancer, MAF sensor, new Engine mounts and the wheel pulley. Despite all these changes now the engine just seems too tight and when I press on the accelerator, it feels like the car is kinda driving on the 4th gear rather than the D or 5th. It feels like the car is straining due to some "tightness" and dont feel the Glide anymore. When I ease up on the accel pedal, it seems like the car slows down faster than it used to before as basically I havee a rough ride. Also I feel the gas consumption is a bit too high than normal. Its this terrrible rough ride and the AAMCO people have ruled out any Transmission issues after their diagnosis. I had someone else tell me that the Transmission needs to be rebuilt and the front pump, the bushings and the Torque converter are busted without even looking closely at it or doing any diagnostics and would cost $ 6000 !!!!!! The Transmission oil level is perfect and the oil is still green without any foul smell !!!!! sometimes I do think the shifting is a bit rough as it gives me a slight jerk while movingg from 1st gear to 2nd. Can you please tell me what you think??? Any immediate assistance would be greatly appreciated Dave.
I have a strange noise in my 2003, S500 and no one seems to know what it is. The acceleration in my 2003 S500 was smooth as silk when I brought it 5 months ago until I ended up changing the ABC pump, the Alternator the Harmonic Balancer, MAF sensor, new Engine mounts and the wheel pulley. Despite all these changes now the engine just seems too tight and when I press on the accelerator, it feels like the car is kinda driving on the 4th gear rather than the D or 5th. It feels like the car is straining due to some "tightness" and dont feel the Glide anymore. When I ease up on the accel pedal, it seems like the car slows down faster than it used to before as basically I havee a rough ride. Also I feel the gas consumption is a bit too high than normal. Its this terrrible rough ride and the AAMCO people have ruled out any Transmission issues after their diagnosis. I had someone else tell me that the Transmission needs to be rebuilt and the front pump, the bushings and the Torque converter are busted without even looking closely at it or doing any diagnostics and would cost $ 6000 !!!!!! The Transmission oil level is perfect and the oil is still green without any foul smell !!!!! sometimes I do think the shifting is a bit rough as it gives me a slight jerk while movingg from 1st gear to 2nd. Can you please tell me what you think??? Any immediate assistance would be greatly appreciated Dave.
08-09-2012, 09:48 AM
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1987 300d turbo , 81 6.9sl
ADRENALINE
YOU ASKED WHERE YOU MIGHT FIND THE PARTS. I ASSUMED THAT MEANT "REFERRAL" . I CAN GET THEM FOR YOU OR MAYBE I KNOW SOMEONE IN THE AREA WHERE YOU ARE.
AS FAR AS DIY - YOU TUBE POSTS SOME HALFWAY DIY BUT THEY COME AND GO. THE PHOTOS I POSTED WERE SOME OF THE ONES I TOOK THE LAST TIME I DID A PLATE SERVICE.
AS FAR AS WHY I AM IN THIS FORUM,THREAD,WEBSITE, I LOOK AND SEE WHAT "THE PUBLIC" IN MY INDUSTRY IS THINKING. THIS APPEARS TO BE THE BEST FORUM/PUBLIC/BENZ SITES AROUND.
AS FAR AS DIY - YOU TUBE POSTS SOME HALFWAY DIY BUT THEY COME AND GO. THE PHOTOS I POSTED WERE SOME OF THE ONES I TOOK THE LAST TIME I DID A PLATE SERVICE.
AS FAR AS WHY I AM IN THIS FORUM,THREAD,WEBSITE, I LOOK AND SEE WHAT "THE PUBLIC" IN MY INDUSTRY IS THINKING. THIS APPEARS TO BE THE BEST FORUM/PUBLIC/BENZ SITES AROUND.
08-21-2012, 06:41 PM
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W220
1999-2004 The multi-pin connector will leak but not from it's own failure in most cases. The valve body conductor plate craks,fluid vents thru the connector. Most "local shop" techs only think to replace the connector,give you a 30 day warranty and send you out the door only to find within next 10-15k miles the leak is still there.
Some second hand Benx lot's will do this to pinch pennies. Replacing the conductor plate will usually suffice without getting greedy and selling someone the valve body too.
Some second hand Benx lot's will do this to pinch pennies. Replacing the conductor plate will usually suffice without getting greedy and selling someone the valve body too.
10-27-2013, 08:12 AM
#19
Hi Dave,
I have a strange noise in my 2003, S500 and no one seems to know what it is. The acceleration in my 2003 S500 was smooth as silk when I brought it 5 months ago until I ended up changing the ABC pump, the Alternator the Harmonic Balancer, MAF sensor, new Engine mounts and the wheel pulley. Despite all these changes now the engine just seems too tight and when I press on the accelerator, it feels like the car is kinda driving on the 4th gear rather than the D or 5th. It feels like the car is straining due to some "tightness" and dont feel the Glide anymore. When I ease up on the accel pedal, it seems like the car slows down faster than it used to before as basically I havee a rough ride. Also I feel the gas consumption is a bit too high than normal. Its this terrrible rough ride and the AAMCO people have ruled out any Transmission issues after their diagnosis. I had someone else tell me that the Transmission needs to be rebuilt and the front pump, the bushings and the Torque converter are busted without even looking closely at it or doing any diagnostics and would cost $ 6000 !!!!!! The Transmission oil level is perfect and the oil is still green without any foul smell !!!!! sometimes I do think the shifting is a bit rough as it gives me a slight jerk while movingg from 1st gear to 2nd. Can you please tell me what you think??? Any immediate assistance would be greatly appreciated Dave.
I have a strange noise in my 2003, S500 and no one seems to know what it is. The acceleration in my 2003 S500 was smooth as silk when I brought it 5 months ago until I ended up changing the ABC pump, the Alternator the Harmonic Balancer, MAF sensor, new Engine mounts and the wheel pulley. Despite all these changes now the engine just seems too tight and when I press on the accelerator, it feels like the car is kinda driving on the 4th gear rather than the D or 5th. It feels like the car is straining due to some "tightness" and dont feel the Glide anymore. When I ease up on the accel pedal, it seems like the car slows down faster than it used to before as basically I havee a rough ride. Also I feel the gas consumption is a bit too high than normal. Its this terrrible rough ride and the AAMCO people have ruled out any Transmission issues after their diagnosis. I had someone else tell me that the Transmission needs to be rebuilt and the front pump, the bushings and the Torque converter are busted without even looking closely at it or doing any diagnostics and would cost $ 6000 !!!!!! The Transmission oil level is perfect and the oil is still green without any foul smell !!!!! sometimes I do think the shifting is a bit rough as it gives me a slight jerk while movingg from 1st gear to 2nd. Can you please tell me what you think??? Any immediate assistance would be greatly appreciated Dave.
Dr. Hisham EL-Banhawy
01-10-2014, 12:09 AM
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2006 s500
The gears in an automatic transmission don't slip. They are planetary gears that are permanently meshed. The clutch packs are what slip. Each gear has a series of clutch packs made of friction material (similar to your brake pads) that force the gear to stall and go into a direct drive configuration. So while in first gear, all 5 gears are spinning. Shift to second, the clutch pack stalls gear one and gears 2-5 spin, and so on (depending on transmission configuration, of course.)
If you mash the gas pedal and it just sits and spins, your clutches are bad inside gears 1-3. If it only happens every once in a while, there are several things that could be wrong.
The basic test is to pull the transmission dip stick and smell the fluid. If it smells like sulfur, your transmission fluid has been cooked by burnt up clutch packs. A complete transmission overhaul is needed.
If the fluid smells fine, the torque converter may be failing. If the little turbine inside is "twisting" under stress, it can get "stuck" and fail to build pressure inside the transmission (this isn't really what happens, but in layman's terms, it's a valid description). That probably isn't the problem. What is likely to be the problem is that your valve body inside the transmission is going bad. Or possibly the filter is clogged. Pray for the clogged filter, but brace yourself for the bad valve body. If you have a bad valve body it may or may not need to be replaced. There are small check ***** inside and around the valve body that may be getting stuck as well. If this is the case, it's a 50 cent part and a 5 minute fix.
Find yourself a reputable transmission shop and have them take a look. This is going to be expensive most likely. If you are feeling froggy and trust in your own skills, drop the transmission pan and replace the filter. Take the old filter and cut it open. If you see metallic debris, you have more problems than the filter. If you let your transmission shop do the work, make sure they tell you exactly what they did and why the transmission failed. Tell them to keep the bad parts. 99% of people have no idea how an automatic transmission works, and most shops know that and will screw you to the wall over a $2.00 fix. Do some research and go to the shop educated. Make sure they know that you know your stuff. That way they'll be less likely to screw you over for no reason.
If you mash the gas pedal and it just sits and spins, your clutches are bad inside gears 1-3. If it only happens every once in a while, there are several things that could be wrong.
The basic test is to pull the transmission dip stick and smell the fluid. If it smells like sulfur, your transmission fluid has been cooked by burnt up clutch packs. A complete transmission overhaul is needed.
If the fluid smells fine, the torque converter may be failing. If the little turbine inside is "twisting" under stress, it can get "stuck" and fail to build pressure inside the transmission (this isn't really what happens, but in layman's terms, it's a valid description). That probably isn't the problem. What is likely to be the problem is that your valve body inside the transmission is going bad. Or possibly the filter is clogged. Pray for the clogged filter, but brace yourself for the bad valve body. If you have a bad valve body it may or may not need to be replaced. There are small check ***** inside and around the valve body that may be getting stuck as well. If this is the case, it's a 50 cent part and a 5 minute fix.
Find yourself a reputable transmission shop and have them take a look. This is going to be expensive most likely. If you are feeling froggy and trust in your own skills, drop the transmission pan and replace the filter. Take the old filter and cut it open. If you see metallic debris, you have more problems than the filter. If you let your transmission shop do the work, make sure they tell you exactly what they did and why the transmission failed. Tell them to keep the bad parts. 99% of people have no idea how an automatic transmission works, and most shops know that and will screw you to the wall over a $2.00 fix. Do some research and go to the shop educated. Make sure they know that you know your stuff. That way they'll be less likely to screw you over for no reason.
I have the same problem but mine is 2006 s500 it doesn't come with a dipstick. How can I check the fluid? should I bring to the shop?
01-10-2014, 05:38 AM
#22
It has a dipstick tube , you have to buy the "dipstick tool" separate
Search ebay for w220 transmission dipstick
Though I seriously doubt its as fluid level problem
Search ebay for w220 transmission dipstick
Though I seriously doubt its as fluid level problem
01-10-2014, 09:23 AM
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
One check is to remove the cover from the electronics box under the hood at the right corner of the windshield. (Remember that left/right is always from the driver's view.)
Carefully check the inside of the box, especially the wire harnesses, for any trace of an oily substance. Any oil usually means that the harness connector on the transmission is leaking, and wicking transmission fluid into the transmission control box, where it will cause odd behavior.
There are several posts on here, the other Benz forums, and YouTube showing how to clean the control box and replace the leaking adapter. (Search for transmission adapter.) It takes only a few minutes to clean the box, which will sometimes cure the behavior problems. You would still need to replace the adapter, and might need to clean the box again.
Carefully check the inside of the box, especially the wire harnesses, for any trace of an oily substance. Any oil usually means that the harness connector on the transmission is leaking, and wicking transmission fluid into the transmission control box, where it will cause odd behavior.
There are several posts on here, the other Benz forums, and YouTube showing how to clean the control box and replace the leaking adapter. (Search for transmission adapter.) It takes only a few minutes to clean the box, which will sometimes cure the behavior problems. You would still need to replace the adapter, and might need to clean the box again.
Last edited by wallyp; 01-10-2014 at 09:25 AM.
01-10-2014, 01:45 PM
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2006 s500
