Latest RENNtech S600 dragstrip results...
05-11-2003, 04:36 AM
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SL65, 911
Latest RENNtech S600 dragstrip results...
Engine must be breaking in, because it's making a LOT of power. Even at the strip, I would spin through the top of 1st once the turbos spooled. Going to talk to RENNtech about getting some more tire on this beast...
A very close race:
http://www.treynor.com/S600_Sacto_10.wmv (Windows Media 9)
A modified C5 meets its match:
http://www.treynor.com/Sacto_S600_vs_C5.wmv
05-18-2003, 07:34 PM
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Zero problems so far. I did break it in for 1000 miles before it first went to the strip, and I don't consider boosting the power by 8% to be abusive. Remember, it made 481 RWHP bone stock...
05-18-2003, 08:12 PM
#5
Originally posted by treynor
Zero problems so far. I did break it in for 1000 miles before it first went to the strip, and I don't consider boosting the power by 8% to be abusive. Remember, it made 481 RWHP bone stock...
Zero problems so far. I did break it in for 1000 miles before it first went to the strip, and I don't consider boosting the power by 8% to be abusive. Remember, it made 481 RWHP bone stock...
Wouldn't that be more like a 20% increase from 500 stock?
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05-22-2003, 11:26 AM
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I spoke with Brabus, and they wanted absurd amounts of money for the same basic upgrades offered by RENNtech. Also, when I've read Mercedes tuner article reviews in Car & Driver, the RENNtech cars are always at the top of the performance ranking. The combo of better performance + lower price was good enough for me 
05-22-2003, 03:39 PM
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Let's say money wasn't an issue. Do you think Brabus would have given you better performance than RENNTech? Also, does Brabus bring the engine back to Maybach specs? It seems like Brabus' main vehicules are Mercedes (like their new V12 on the E-Class) so I'm wondering if they aren't the "best" at modifying Benz's.
Karma
Karma
05-22-2003, 08:50 PM
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Well....
I beleive that Renntech is definetly the way to go! Brabus is a very good company but Renntech does very good work (better than Brabus I beleive) and it is less money. Remember just because something is more doesn't mean it's better.
As far as your comment on Brabus making the best 'rims'. Well although you might like their style they are extremely heavy and will affect your perfomance. HRE or a company like that makes just as good if not better quality wheels that are lighter.
Thanks.
As far as your comment on Brabus making the best 'rims'. Well although you might like their style they are extremely heavy and will affect your perfomance. HRE or a company like that makes just as good if not better quality wheels that are lighter.Thanks.
05-23-2003, 02:31 AM
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> Let's say money wasn't an issue. Do you think Brabus would have given you better performance than RENNTech?
I suppose this is one of those holy wars -- which tuner is best, etc. etc. RENNtech seems to be the most focused on vehicle performance; they are founded by the former head of AMG, and they continue to have close ties with D-C / Germany. Brabus no doubt makes good stuff, but a lot of it is cosmetic.
The wheels example cited above is an excellent illustration. RENNtech's wheels are 19", 19lb, well ventilated forged assemblies - light & strong, good for brake cooling, though not particularly flashy looking. That's exactly what I want on my car -- performance which doesn't draw [unwanted] attention.
I suppose this is one of those holy wars -- which tuner is best, etc. etc. RENNtech seems to be the most focused on vehicle performance; they are founded by the former head of AMG, and they continue to have close ties with D-C / Germany. Brabus no doubt makes good stuff, but a lot of it is cosmetic.
The wheels example cited above is an excellent illustration. RENNtech's wheels are 19", 19lb, well ventilated forged assemblies - light & strong, good for brake cooling, though not particularly flashy looking. That's exactly what I want on my car -- performance which doesn't draw [unwanted] attention.
05-24-2003, 11:09 AM
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marta
nice videos, too bad u didnt get 11 seconds this time.
the kleeman upgrade sounds nice, 620 hp and 700lbs of torque, but im sure they are the most expensive out of all of the companies.
the kleeman upgrade sounds nice, 620 hp and 700lbs of torque, but im sure they are the most expensive out of all of the companies.
05-24-2003, 11:45 AM
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BMW M5, Porsche 911, Mercedes-Benz E55
Ben,
I drove a stock '03 CL 600. I noticed one very disconcerting thing about it, and I wanted to find out if you experienced the same thing with you car.
When I accelerated full-throttle hard and then suddenly completely let off the gas to slow down, I noticed that the car momentarily surges forward/continues to accelerate! A software friend of mine suggested that this could have something to do with emissions (i.e. on trailing throttle, the fuel delivery isn't immediately cut-off in order to make the transition from full throttle to no throttle "cleaner" in an emissions sense). It sure doesn't buttress a driver's confidence when a car continues to accelerate (even if only momentarily brief) when you'd expect it to do the opposite and slowdown simultaneous to lifting off the throttle.
The thing that bugs me is that cars are starting to have a mind of their own and drive themselves. For instance, the Sensotronic electro-hydraulic brakes on the new generation E and SL cars feel so fake, artificial and non-linear as to be dangerous! The brake pedal is so long, soft, and mushy! The brakes simply don't bite! And they have zero progressivity! When driving the '03 CL 600 yesterday, the throttle-by-wire felt so fake on initial throttle tip-in (i.e. when lightly gassing the throttle from a dead stop when I wanted to creep forward very slightly).
I guess the downside of all of these computer system is that they often can't recreate
the natural man-machine interface that used to exist on cars when the various systems were less electronically driven and more mechanical in nature. When driving these cars, I'm very impressed with the grunt and acceleration, but disappointed in the insulated/isolated/detached/artificial sensation of the feedback that the new generation R230 SL/W211 E-Class Sensotronic brakes impart, and similarly with the unlinear throttle of the W220 S600 Twin-Turbo. Maybe aftermarket software can improve the latter, and hopefully AMG can improve the mapping of the former with revised software.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
I drove a stock '03 CL 600. I noticed one very disconcerting thing about it, and I wanted to find out if you experienced the same thing with you car.
When I accelerated full-throttle hard and then suddenly completely let off the gas to slow down, I noticed that the car momentarily surges forward/continues to accelerate! A software friend of mine suggested that this could have something to do with emissions (i.e. on trailing throttle, the fuel delivery isn't immediately cut-off in order to make the transition from full throttle to no throttle "cleaner" in an emissions sense). It sure doesn't buttress a driver's confidence when a car continues to accelerate (even if only momentarily brief) when you'd expect it to do the opposite and slowdown simultaneous to lifting off the throttle.
The thing that bugs me is that cars are starting to have a mind of their own and drive themselves. For instance, the Sensotronic electro-hydraulic brakes on the new generation E and SL cars feel so fake, artificial and non-linear as to be dangerous! The brake pedal is so long, soft, and mushy! The brakes simply don't bite! And they have zero progressivity! When driving the '03 CL 600 yesterday, the throttle-by-wire felt so fake on initial throttle tip-in (i.e. when lightly gassing the throttle from a dead stop when I wanted to creep forward very slightly).
I guess the downside of all of these computer system is that they often can't recreate
the natural man-machine interface that used to exist on cars when the various systems were less electronically driven and more mechanical in nature. When driving these cars, I'm very impressed with the grunt and acceleration, but disappointed in the insulated/isolated/detached/artificial sensation of the feedback that the new generation R230 SL/W211 E-Class Sensotronic brakes impart, and similarly with the unlinear throttle of the W220 S600 Twin-Turbo. Maybe aftermarket software can improve the latter, and hopefully AMG can improve the mapping of the former with revised software.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
Last edited by Symbolic; 05-24-2003 at 05:26 PM.
05-24-2003, 07:10 PM
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Symbolic - my car doesn't have the post-throttle "surge" you describe, but I do agree with your basic point that the drive-by-wire interface takes some getting used to. To some degree any FI car will have poorer throttle response than a NA car, but the Benz cars seem to have it to a more extreme degree than others.
On the other hand, they're gawdawful fast
On the other hand, they're gawdawful fast
05-24-2003, 09:00 PM
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This is truly one amazing beast!!!
Congrats on such a great car with great power!!
Hope you keep enjoying it!
I have most of your videos on the computer too
I like that 50-110 mph run in ur viper.....whats that again? 4 seconds? LOL
Great cars!!
Iron Sheik
05-25-2003, 08:00 PM
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Treynor,
When Mercedes rates its vehicules, what is it rating exactly? Why do its figures differ so dramatically from yours? Also, as mentioned above, the Kleemann upgrade gives 620 HP and 700 TQ. Again, what HP is rated there?
Karma
When Mercedes rates its vehicules, what is it rating exactly? Why do its figures differ so dramatically from yours? Also, as mentioned above, the Kleemann upgrade gives 620 HP and 700 TQ. Again, what HP is rated there?
Karma
05-26-2003, 12:14 AM
#21
Originally posted by Karma
Treynor,
When Mercedes rates its vehicules, what is it rating exactly? Why do its figures differ so dramatically from yours? Also, as mentioned above, the Kleemann upgrade gives 620 HP and 700 TQ. Again, what HP is rated there?
Karma
Treynor,
When Mercedes rates its vehicules, what is it rating exactly? Why do its figures differ so dramatically from yours? Also, as mentioned above, the Kleemann upgrade gives 620 HP and 700 TQ. Again, what HP is rated there?
Karma
S55 vs S600, give it the same number (horsepower wise) and you get a "choice" (just saw matrix sorry) of choosing Luxury-ultra or luxury-preformance. The reason they are able to do this is because there are no vehicles in it's class that can compare to it's tremendous power.
05-28-2003, 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by Symbolic
Ben,
I drove a stock '03 CL 600. I noticed one very disconcerting thing about it, and I wanted to find out if you experienced the same thing with you car.
When I accelerated full-throttle hard and then suddenly completely let off the gas to slow down, I noticed that the car momentarily surges forward/continues to accelerate! A software friend of mine suggested that this could have something to do with emissions (i.e. on trailing throttle, the fuel delivery isn't immediately cut-off in order to make the transition from full throttle to no throttle "cleaner" in an emissions sense). It sure doesn't buttress a driver's confidence when a car continues to accelerate (even if only momentarily brief) when you'd expect it to do the opposite and slowdown simultaneous to lifting off the throttle.
The thing that bugs me is that cars are starting to have a mind of their own and drive themselves. For instance, the Sensotronic electro-hydraulic brakes on the new generation E and SL cars feel so fake, artificial and non-linear as to be dangerous! The brake pedal is so long, soft, and mushy! The brakes simply don't bite! And they have zero progressivity! When driving the '03 CL 600 yesterday, the throttle-by-wire felt so fake on initial throttle tip-in (i.e. when lightly gassing the throttle from a dead stop when I wanted to creep forward very slightly).
I guess the downside of all of these computer system is that they often can't recreate
the natural man-machine interface that used to exist on cars when the various systems were less electronically driven and more mechanical in nature. When driving these cars, I'm very impressed with the grunt and acceleration, but disappointed in the insulated/isolated/detached/artificial sensation of the feedback that the new generation R230 SL/W211 E-Class Sensotronic brakes impart, and similarly with the unlinear throttle of the W220 S600 Twin-Turbo. Maybe aftermarket software can improve the latter, and hopefully AMG can improve the mapping of the former with revised software.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
Ben,
I drove a stock '03 CL 600. I noticed one very disconcerting thing about it, and I wanted to find out if you experienced the same thing with you car.
When I accelerated full-throttle hard and then suddenly completely let off the gas to slow down, I noticed that the car momentarily surges forward/continues to accelerate! A software friend of mine suggested that this could have something to do with emissions (i.e. on trailing throttle, the fuel delivery isn't immediately cut-off in order to make the transition from full throttle to no throttle "cleaner" in an emissions sense). It sure doesn't buttress a driver's confidence when a car continues to accelerate (even if only momentarily brief) when you'd expect it to do the opposite and slowdown simultaneous to lifting off the throttle.
The thing that bugs me is that cars are starting to have a mind of their own and drive themselves. For instance, the Sensotronic electro-hydraulic brakes on the new generation E and SL cars feel so fake, artificial and non-linear as to be dangerous! The brake pedal is so long, soft, and mushy! The brakes simply don't bite! And they have zero progressivity! When driving the '03 CL 600 yesterday, the throttle-by-wire felt so fake on initial throttle tip-in (i.e. when lightly gassing the throttle from a dead stop when I wanted to creep forward very slightly).
I guess the downside of all of these computer system is that they often can't recreate
the natural man-machine interface that used to exist on cars when the various systems were less electronically driven and more mechanical in nature. When driving these cars, I'm very impressed with the grunt and acceleration, but disappointed in the insulated/isolated/detached/artificial sensation of the feedback that the new generation R230 SL/W211 E-Class Sensotronic brakes impart, and similarly with the unlinear throttle of the W220 S600 Twin-Turbo. Maybe aftermarket software can improve the latter, and hopefully AMG can improve the mapping of the former with revised software.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
05-28-2003, 08:36 PM
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SL65, 911
Stay tuned on that point on brakes -- my S600 got RENNtech wheels & tires yesterday (255/40-19 and 295/35-19s) and gets the RENNtech "big brake" kit tomorrow (14.2" front rotors w/8-piston Brembo calipers). Then I'm going to Willow Springs raceway this Saturday so that Car & Driver can test & photograph the car Expect a writeup in C&D later this year.
Expect a writeup in C&D later this year.
05-28-2003, 08:41 PM
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BMW M5, Porsche 911, Mercedes-Benz E55
Originally posted by treynor
Stay tuned on that point on brakes -- my S600 got RENNtech wheels & tires yesterday (255/40-19 and 295/35-19s) and gets the RENNtech "big brake" kit tomorrow (14.2" front rotors w/8-piston Brembo calipers). Then I'm going to Willow Springs raceway this Saturday so that Car & Driver can test & photograph the car Expect a writeup in C&D later this year.
Stay tuned on that point on brakes -- my S600 got RENNtech wheels & tires yesterday (255/40-19 and 295/35-19s) and gets the RENNtech "big brake" kit tomorrow (14.2" front rotors w/8-piston Brembo calipers). Then I'm going to Willow Springs raceway this Saturday so that Car & Driver can test & photograph the car
Expect a writeup in C&D later this year.
I also will be at Willow Springs this Saturday for the Tribute to Le Mans race.
We (Symbolic Motor Car Company) will be displaying our Sebring-winning
Porsche 917K at the event.
Please email me on elliot@symbolicmotors.com
Or, call me on my Mobile No. (760) 223-9096.
