Please help with winter driving experiences!

[Doody]

i am having a really difficult time not buying a 2004 Audi A8 L. i really want a W220, but the wife isn't impressed, and she'll drive this car as much as i will. i live near Boston. winter happens here, with no apologies. our winter cars are currently two AWD vehicles: a Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with QuadraTrack and an Audi A4 with Quattro. they are both stellar on the snow and ice. (this new car would replace the A4.) we've owned four AWD vehicles over the past dozen years and we think they're the bees knees in the bad weather. two jeeps, the audi, and even the 996TT with performance tires performed admirably when called upon (rarely), believe it or not! i've driven an E39 M5 through two New England winters (with the stock performance tires). it wasn't optimal, and isn't a situation i'd want to put my kids in during the winter (we were monster-less back then). i've driven a 996 C2 Cab and my f-cars on the snow. generally ill-advised behavior, to say the least :-). so i believe i have a really solid understanding of "optimal", "acceptable", and "sub-optimal" automobile winter applicability. there are a LOT of S class cars in New England. a LOT. 4MATIC wasn't an option until the 2003 MY, so the vast majority of those are simply RWD. i assume most of the owners here do not have 4MATIC (statistics being what they are, and all). i assume some of the owners here live in snowy climates. so what have your real-world experiences been like here? do you simply not drive your W220 in the snow and ice? do you keep a separate set of tires/wheels with good winter tires for when the arctic settles in? i test drove an S430; it was not particularly zippy. my wife and i test drove an S500 4MATIC extensively. my wife was not entirely impressed with the "zippiness" of the S500. partly i'm sure this was due to the slushbox (she's used to a manual), and partly i'm sure this was due to the engine power (respectable, for sure, but these things are damn heavy). so i'm exploring (considering? entertaining?) the idea of picking up a preowned S55 instead. obviously this means no 4MATIC. but i can only do this if i can convince myself (and the boss) that it's a feasible option for winter driving in New England. any advice much appreciated. thanks, doody!

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[Bimmerbenz]

Hmm, sounds like a bind. I have yet to run the S430 in the midwestern winters, but if it handles it like our old '92 LS400....I hate to say it but you probably should explore options like the Audi A8. I remember the New England winters from college and I feel you might want AWD comfort and safety. Either that, or start the car in 2nd all the time.

[GDawgC220]

I've been driving for about 3 years now with my C220, also a RWD. I can't say it's the best in snowy or icy conditions, but I've gotten use to the winters here and can handle my self now. I've also driven my p-rents S500, and with the ASR and ESP, it makes it a little more easy than my car without all that help. It definately still spins the tires, but you can get around in avg snowfall.

I say if you are concerned about the winter, 4Matic or Quattro would be the way to go. We also have an A6 Quattro, which makes life in snow and ice very easy But, I've seen a lot of new S430 and S500's with 4Matic around the Metrowest area now...

[apricotscrub]

i live in CT and drove s430 most of the winter. This is the non 4-matic version. The 430 was very good in the snow, it got me out of driveways covered with snow. It uses the ESP and can inch your way out of almost any horrible situation if your stuck

[ajayz]

Originally posted by apricotscrub
i live in CT and drove s430 most of the winter. This is the non 4-matic version. The 430 was very good in the snow, it got me out of driveways covered with snow. It uses the ESP and can inch your way out of almost any horrible situation if your stuck

yep ESP works. I was going uphill and there was some ice there and when i hit the accelerator, the wheels started sliding on the ice and esp got it back on track- or it was something like that, cant remember.

[Rincewind]

if you choose to get the S. make sure you get a set of winter tires to take full advantage of traction control etc. or consider getting a 4matic S.

I'd personally get the new audi8 l tho, its a beautiful piece of machinery

[E55AMG99]

It sounds like you have a difficult decision to make. S55 is damn nice but would I feel comfortable with MY wife driving it in a NE winter, especially after being used to AWD? Visions of mangled metal and a VERY PO'ed mate come to mind quickly. IMHO, I'd go for the new S500 4MATIC and pop it over to the nearest aftermaket MB tuner for a little dose of pep.

My dad just went through a similar comparison with the S500, A8 and 745. Although AWD was not considered a necessary item, it did make the Audi feel more natural when driving at the adhesion limits. The other cars were abrupt when the electronic controls came into play but since my dad will not be road racing this car, he didn't find it as annoying as I did.

If safety is your concern, let it also be your decision maker.

[kmaker]

I drove the last two winters in the midwest in an S430 with a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin snow tires. The tires turned it from an awful car in snow to an acceptable car in snow. Nothing is going to be as good as AWD or 4WD, but good tires make the S class a damn good rear wheel drive car in snow.

However, I just got a 2003 S55 in April, after the winter season - yet to see how an additional 200 plus horsepower affects winter driving...

[maw1124]

Originally Posted by E55AMG99

It sounds like you have a difficult decision to make. S55 is damn nice but would I feel comfortable with MY wife driving it in a NE winter, especially after being used to AWD? Visions of mangled metal and a VERY PO'ed mate come to mind quickly. IMHO, I'd go for the new S500 4MATIC and pop it over to the nearest aftermaket MB tuner for a little dose of pep.

My dad just went through a similar comparison with the S500, A8 and 745. Although AWD was not considered a necessary item, it did make the Audi feel more natural when driving at the adhesion limits. The other cars were abrupt when the electronic controls came into play but since my dad will not be road racing this car, he didn't find it as annoying as I did.

If safety is your concern, let it also be your decision maker.

I think this is very sound advice. My wife has the allroad for just this reason. Even though it's almost 300HP, it's a beast in the snow (we call it Iorek Byrnison from the Golden Compass), so there are no worries there. She doesn't drive my S55 on anything but sunny dry days, and even then it makes her very nervous -- not a good thing under the wheel of 500 horses of rare metal and no quattro to make it easier. I'm not sure I know what I'm going to do in the winter. But I saw enough 750's and 745's around to convince myself that I'd be ok. I just think you have to match the car up with the driver.

[Oliverk]

Interesting that your wife finds the performance of a 306bhp AWD 4300lb sedan unimpressive. It may not be an E39 M5, but unless she is racing people, who cares? Its certainly enough to safely merge into traffic, pass, etc.

Perhaps a 2007 S550 4matic will be more to her liking, but I'm a bit perplexed by why she is in need of better acceleration in a huge sedan.

Perhaps an E500 4matic might be a better choice?

[maw1124]

And there's always the S8 -- best of both worlds.

Interesting, though, when I was stuck where you are (between a Benz and an A8), she got the "wagon version" of the A8 (allroad 4.2, best baby hauler ever), and I got "permission" to get the AMG.

And that allroad will drive circles around any stock A4 (S4 is a different story), in all road conditions.

[4matic]

Hey...Im from CT and have an 04 S430 4matic.
Not a problem in the snow.
We have had a 98 E320 4matic as well and have never, ever had a problem with either of them.
Best of luck on your decision though man!!

(hate these winters...)



4matic.

[Skylaw]

In Maryland we could not use studded snow tires, so I stuck to M&S year round. My '00 S500 found maintaining traction difficult on any kind of ice. Powerful engine + ice meant trouble (it was even worse in my RWD Infiniti Q45). The "W" (Winter/Wet," now labeled "C" for "Comfort") selection that started off in 2d gear helped some.

My '05 4matic was truly superior; however, all cars will skid while trying to stop on smooth (glare) ice, unless they have chains or studs. The same conditions that turned me around in an Audi A4 Quattro and an A6 Quattro would have turned me around in the 4Matic - driving after or during freezing rain.

While the AWDs of each type could maintain good steering and keep moving, stopping was a problem for every vehicle that did not have chains or studs.

By contrast, for 3 years I drove 55 miles each way every day between Denver and Colorado Springs - using a Suziki Samurai, a Jeep Cherokee, and an Audi 5000S Quattro, each with radial studded snow tires. The Samurai and Jeep were classic 4 wheel drive, and the Audi was AWD. Light snow, ice, and deep snow (at least deep enough to touch the bottom of each type of car) never stopped me in those cars (though the Jeep was unstable in a hard stop, and I got rid of it for that).

I also drove for 3-1/2 years in northern Maine, with a RWD '72 Thunderbird. I ran M&S on the front, and studded snow tires on the back - and never worried about stopping or getting stuck unless the snow on the highway was over the bumpers. Yes, there were several times each year where the car was literally buried (can you believe living in northern Maine with no garage?)

AWD/4Matic with studs on ice or in snow is absolutely great. AWD with M&S is much better than RWD, but I still don't like driving on ice with M&S. RWD sucks on all but dry roads. And Audi Quattros as well as MB 4Matic provide an incredible feel of command of the road on wet or dry pavement. Knowing I would be moving to Florida, I still jumped at he chance to trade my RWD '00 S500 on a 4Matic - and it has paid off in our tropical downpours in Florida.

A bit off-topic, but discussing Maine brings to mind a story that I can laugh about today (not when it happened). I was an Air Force pilot during my military career, but for 3 years was farmed out to Security Police, and supervised a shift of somewhat over 100 people who performed flightline security and base police functions. Every year in northern Maine, we would have several months of heavy snowstorms and blizzards, from October until late January. Then would come the January thaw, a brief respite when temperatures stayed above freezing for 3 days or so. Much accumulated snow would melt, causing deep puddles in low spots because remaining ice and snow still blocked storm drains. Then, we'd get another bilzzard and a deep freeze.

I cautioned my troops on the effects of superchilled water, and to avoid driving through the puddles as the temperatures began to fall. Of course, at least some wouldn't listen. You know the rest. One of my guys, confident he could show that the "old man" didn't know what he was talking about, took on the biggest and deepest puddle - just knowing his 4WD and chains would get him through if he went fast enough. Imagine his surprise when as soon as he got about 3 seconds into it, in up to the axles, and halfway across the 25 yard wide puddle, it went from liquid water to solid ice on him in an instant, locking his truck in place.

Imagine then his chagrin as I first handed him his ass, then handed him a shovel and an axe from my truck, and told him to start chipping and digging until he got it out. Imagine his ire because it took him a good 12 hours of the rest of his shift and his day off to get the truck to the point that it could be freed, even using heaters that some kindly aircraft maintenance folks brought out.

Well --- at least I can laugh now.

[NuMBS500er]

I lived in New England, I had an Audi A6 Quattro and MB S500 4matic, they are both great tractions in the snow, I had no problem in some pretty heavy snow conditions. But do not confuse traction with control. Don't get over confidence on icey road, special black ice. Some winter tires will inprove a lot.

[boltonblue]

4matic is wonderful. i have a long steep drive which ices over in December and melts in march.
even with all-season tires the S430 is a billy goat, it isn't even discernable that it's doing anything extraordinary.
ran michilen pilot AS on my E and it's spectacular.
no the S430 not a hot rod but more of heavy cruiser, not nimble but is surprisingly adept when you push it and are willing to work the turns.

[DRTYLNDY]

Well here is my opinion. I live on an Island on Mid Coast Maine and my S55 absolutely sucks in the snow. That is why we have a Toyota Sequoia as well.