Weakness of the Benz

[ethelbert]

Hi all, I am currently doing a research on the strengths and weaknesses of the Mercedes Benz. However, it seems rather impossible for me to search for the weakness of the Benz over the web. I would appreciate if there is any kind soul in the forum whom can enlighten me on this aspect. Perhaps you can summarise the weaknesses of the Benz in terms of technology,competition, economics, quality, price-to-performance.....just to name a few. Thanks in advance to anybody who can help to contribute the facts to my project.

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[ktownbenz]

the only weaknesses I know of are:

1. If you own a Mercedes, people will think you are a rich, stuck up SOB who doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself. This statement is sadly true for some owners.
2. Manual transmissions are hard to find in Mercedes
3. Lexus is starting to beat out Mercedes in quality, which has slipped since around 2000 or so.
4. Premium gas required
5. Mercedes are not known for excellent cornering or 0-60 as much. Mercedes is regarded as the ultimate autobahn cruiser.
6. If you're just looking for perfromance, this is the wrong car
7. If you're just looking for luxury, this is the wrong car
If you're looking for both, and have some change to spare, Mercedes is your car.

If you're looking for weakness in safety technology you won't find it, because Mercedes holds patents on the majority of safety features on the market. They choose, however, not to enforce their patents when it comes to safety.

hope this helps

[1SICKLEX]

Originally Posted by ethelbert

Hi all,

I am currently doing a research on the strengths and weaknesses of the Mercedes Benz. However, it seems rather impossible for me to search for the weakness of the Benz over the web.

I would appreciate if there is any kind soul in the forum whom can enlighten me on this aspect.

Perhaps you can summarise the weaknesses of the Benz in terms of technology,competition, economics, quality, price-to-performance.....just to name a few.

Thanks in advance to anybody who can help to contribute the facts to my project.

Mercedes-Benz, the tarnishing act... by Jeremy Clarkson

For those that don't know, Clarkson is considered a genius and a god over in Europe. I pay $9.00 a mag for Top Gear JUST for his articles. The man is a genius and shoots it straight. Remember the video of his test on the Crossfire. Perfect.

http://www.topgear.com/content/feat...nishing_act/01/

The tale is recalled by the chief executive of a dealership that sold Mercedes-Benz in London. His salesmen were lounging around the showroom when a small group of menacing-looking undesirables ambled in. They would like to take the AMG M-Class for an extended road test, they said. As the visitors were packing heat, a nervous salesman handed over the keys. The M-Class was never seen again. The chief executive later admitted, "I console myself with the certainty that, sooner or later, the car broke down."
This true anecdote epitomises a major challenge for the car maker with probably the best reputation in the world. Mercedes-Benz's rock-solid image is no longer matched by reality.
In any quality, reliability and customer satisfaction survey, it is generally an average performer, little better than cheaper marques that lack the same elevated status. Sometimes it is much worse. Volkswagen and Audi, two other well-regarded German brands, are invariably middling performers in surveys as well, though Porsches and BMWs are usually well-rated by their owners. Does Germany's fabled engineering expertise bear close scrutiny these days?
The stark disparity between admiration for a brand and the real issues involved in ownership is provided by a survey of over 38,000 members of ADAC (the German motoring organisation) by the AutoMarxx consultancy.
Asked to rank the image of car brands on the market, members put Mercedes firmly top, followed by BMW, Audi, VW, Porsche and Volvo in that order. No other brand was even close. Does one detect a touch of patriotism here? At the bottom, in worsening order, were Daewoo, Lancia, Rover, Subaru, Daihatsu and Suzuki.
However, the tables were turned upside down when members were asked to rate their ownership satisfaction. The top six were Japanese: Toyota, Subaru, Honda, Mazda, Nissan and Mitsubishi. And at the bottom of the chart? In descending order they were: Chrysler, Smart, Fiat, Volkswagen, Mercedes and Land Rover. There have been enough other surveys for Fiat's and Land Rover's positions not to be a surprise. They are the car world's equivalent of junk bonds. The survey's shock is to find Mercedes and Volkswagen competing with them for last place in a country that clearly holds its domestic products in the highest esteem.
While the reports by ADAC and other organisations confirm the superior manufacturing quality and reliability of Japanese brands, they raise serious question about the reputations of some German nameplates. They're not as good as the world thinks they are.



Germany's car makers produce a lot of beautiful, advanced cars that consumers around the world can't wait to buy. Sales of Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche were at record levels last year. The prospects this year look equally good. The appeal is clearly much deeper than quality and reliability. The whole world would drive Toyotas if it wasn't. Design, performance, safety and residual values are important elements in the buying decision as well. And so, more particularly, is prestige. A Renault just won't cut it down at the golf club when a Mercedes-Benz can be bought for similar money.
But there is a weird dynamic in the market if Mercedes-Benz's reputation is still so high at a time when its quality and reliability are so in-different. Is the king wearing any clothes?
The trouble is not imagined. Mercedes-Benz plummeted from fifth overall in the 1997 initial quality survey carried out by JD Power & Associates in the United States to 15th last year. On longer-term reliability, JD Power's US ratings saw Mercedes plunge from top slot at the start of the Nineties to an embarrassing 26th place (out of 36) last year. Jurgen Hubbert, the head of Smart and Mercedes-Benz cars, acknowledged the issue at a conference in the United States earlier this year, when he said the aim was to return to the top of the quality charts by 2006. That's Yes Minister for admitting there's a problem now.
Hubbert said Mercedes has addressed the quality issues and, as each new model comes on to the market, the company will steadily return to its rightful position. At least that's the theory. Seven out of every 10 problems involved electronics, Hubbert said. "Whichever company is in the (technological) lead has the biggest problems," he commented. But Mercedes' problems were more extensive than that. It was simply too stretched to do the job properly.
In the late Nineties, the group embarked on an ambitious plan that totally reshaped its structure and scale. For the first time in its history, Mercedes began to develop new models to pre-determined budgets and timetables. Previously, it worked to what are called cost-plus principles, in which the customer pays for the cost plus profit margin. Cars appeared only when the engineers were satisfied they were right, which could be several months behind schedule. The philosophy all went horribly wrong with the 1991 S-Class and the arrival of much higher standards from other car firms, which made the change decades earlier.
When Mercedes eventually followed the lead, it was just not very good at it. Yet, at the same time, it initiated the development of a whole swathe of additional models, including the A-Class, M-Class and V-Class, together with more coupes and roadsters. The all-new Smart and Maybach projects were launched as well. And it built its first factory in the United States.
Meanwhile, Mercedes' parent group, Daimler-Benz, took control of Chrysler and then bought a major stake in Mitsubishi Motors. Unknown to Daimler, the affairs of both companies were unhealthy, to say the least; including product quality that was well below par. The acquisitions took - and still take - enormous tolls on Daimler management and finances. This was all time and money not spent on Mercedes, whose quality began to suffer as a result.
Like many political and military leaders, Daimler-Benz made the classic strategic error of advancing simultaneously on too many fronts.
These days, though, it is misleading to think in purely nationalistic terms. The global nature of the international motor industry has rendered that concept obsolete.
For example, many of the models contributing to Toyota's number one position in Germany's first JD Power customer satisfaction index were made in Britain and France. The Smart that was the leading 'German' model in the Consumers' Association's reliability survey is assembled in France. The leading 'German' model in the Top Gear/Experian analysis was the BMW Z3, which was made in the US.


Many BMWs, Mercedes and Volkswagens sold in this country are built in South Africa, not Germany. It's not a secret, but none of the companies goes out of their way to explain that fact to its customers. And they, in turn, are happy to believe they're buying German quality.
Elsewhere, we buy Volkswagens from Mexico and Slovakia, Mercedes from Spain and the United States, Vauxhalls from Poland and Australia, Suzukis from Hungary and India and Renaults from Turkey and Slovenia. In the near future, Europeans will have Hondas built in China and Americans will be able to buy Saabs made in Japan and Ohio.
In other words, brand is more important than country of origin when determining car quality. The clever trick by companies like Toyota and Honda is to achieve the same, high manufacturing standards wherever they make cars.
In reality, German firms lost the quality crown to the Japanese manufacturers years ago. The evidence has been public since at least 1981, when Dave Power published his first analysis of car quality in the United States. Since then, a succession of surveys by JD Power and other organisations around the world have regularly revealed how much better made and more reliable the average Japanese car is.
The regular publication of these surveys made public what was previously one of the industry's best kept secrets: comparative data about car manufacturing quality, reliability standards and customer satisfaction. The beneficiaries are all car buyers everywhere, because the effect was to raise levels across the whole industry. For example, the standards of a French or Korean car today are better than those of a Japanese one a couple of decades ago.
The surveys vary by definition, but their results display certain common themes. While, in general, Japanese brands rated best, Mitsubishi, in particular, has some catching up to do. German firms are often only middling performers, though Porsche and BMW owners usually rate their experiences highly. Volkswagen, in spite of its great reputation for solidity, is often below Renault, which has a long-standing reputation for unreliability.

[1SICKLEX]

Just as oddly, Volkswagen invariably finishes below the same group's entry-level brand, Skoda. The Octavia finished third overall in the Top Gear survey compared with 106th (out of 137) for the more expensive Golf model on which it is based. Consumers may one day begin to wonder about the wisdom of paying more for a product that is quantifiably inferior.
Fords tend to do better than the Vauxhalls (and Opels) of its big American rival, GM. South Korean and Swedish firms are generally average, but Italian and French brands tend to languish near the bottom of any table.
All too frequently, though, that table is propped up by a certain four-wheel-drive manufacturer from Solihull. Just like some German brands, Land Rover appears to enjoy a charmed existence in the showrooms.

[1SICKLEX]

And please no arguements, I just cut and paste his article. I am not trying to rile anyone up. I am a huge fan of Clarkson. He also pretty much hates Lexus. . I still love his articles and reviews...

[tiggerfink]

I love our 2004 SL500. It drives well to our driving habits. But I am disappointed with the quality of the interior trim. For some reason the mb-tex gets damage just by touching it. I have replace 4 trim pieces since April 2004. Thank god, the repairs were done under warranty.

[ethelbert]

I hope I have not started a flamewar because of my project.

By the way, the topics contributed over this thread will be used for my project. Thanks for all the assistance and knowledge provided.

Kelvin

[Karl]

The last I heard, DaimlerChryslerAG dumped its shares of Mitsubishi.

[kimchiFLAVA]

so your saying that my benz was made in south africa like my cheap nike shirt?!?!

[Narcissus]

if your vin starts with a W then it's made in good ol' Germany

[Dema]

Weakness: a bit conservative maker, some obvious innovations take ages to get in. Base models sort of striped, and price goes up with options rapidly. Service is costly.
Strengths: still has crown, doesn't age so fast as Japanese cars, after 50K miles it is still like new, when Lexus isn't a car anymore.

[BenzVince]

Originally Posted by Dema

Weakness: a bit conservative maker, some obvious innovations take ages to get in. Base models sort of striped, and price goes up with options rapidly. Service is costly.
Strengths: still has crown, doesn't age so fast as Japanese cars, after 50K miles it is still like new, when Lexus isn't a car anymore.

To come to think of it, it's funny you say about age. I think you're right, cuz my Benz has a lot of miles and it still feel like new also the smell of the interior is still there, it doesn't smell like it's been broken in or someone's Mc Donald's french fries. LOL :p

[mick1]

weakness: some people like to steal the mercedes star.

[kimchiFLAVA]

Originally Posted by mick1

weakness: some people like to steal the mercedes star.

"A curse can be a blessing." well Envy is also a form of flatttery.

[marcos]

For those that don't know, Clarkson is considered a genius and a god over in Europe.

I have met him several times and he is a complete pompus ****, I used to have respect for the man but his head is so far up his own arse it aint true.

My dislike of him has nothing to do with the fact he hates diesel cars

[Hal H]

IMO, major weakness in Mercedes:

The poor quality / reliability of the electronics modules.

The mechanical parts (engine, transmission, suspension) work flawlessly on the other hand.

[H-MAN]

Originally Posted by Hal H

IMO, major weakness in Mercedes:

The poor quality / reliability of the electronics modules.

The mechanical parts (engine, transmission, suspension) work flawlessly on the other hand.

Ditto

[lkchris]

Mercedes invented the automobile and the internal combustion engine.

They've been ahead of everyone else ever since.

[sleewell]

for me the two main weaknesses are its reliability and cost of ownership. expensive cars shouldn't have silly electrical problems - you are paying for quality craftsmanship and electrical problems speak to attention to detail in my mind.

also this whole mentality of "you drive a MB so you must have money to waste" is really dumb. my car was less than 20k when i bought it, there are many other average cars that cost more that that who dont have that stigma. yet somehow i feel like someone put a neon sign on my head that says rip me off for simple repairs bc i drive a MB. oil changes shouldn't cost 200 bucks just because you drive a nice car and they spent 20 seconds checking your fluid levels. stealerships are out of control and need to be put in check.



all that being said they are the ultimate freeway car, that is their home and what they are made for and i not talking about 55mph speed limit roads. my car is blast on the open road and feels just as comfortable at 95 as 65 and i have the bottom of the barrel entry level model.

[benzmodz]

Originally Posted by sleewell

for me the two main weaknesses are its reliability and cost of ownership. expensive cars shouldn't have silly electrical problems - you are paying for quality craftsmanship and electrical problems speak to attention to detail in my mind.

also this whole mentality of "you drive a MB so you must have money to waste" is really dumb. my car was less than 20k when i bought it, there are many other average cars that cost more that that who dont have that stigma. yet somehow i feel like someone put a neon sign on my head that says rip me off for simple repairs bc i drive a MB. oil changes shouldn't cost 200 bucks just because you drive a nice car and they spent 20 seconds checking your fluid levels. stealerships are out of control and need to be put in check.

Do you have any idea what synthetic oil costs ? Plus another 100K per year to provide a hoist, mechanic, a portion of the receptionists fees, a place for you to lounge, a loan car. Then the cost of disposing the used parts and so on and so on.

You get so much for that money and you dont really think it is free do you ?

As for getting ripped off ... there is no way most of the owners in the USA would be driving a base model if they were paying 50 grand for an entry C-Class. That is what I pay and in the USA there are plenty of houses costing that much.

[sleewell]

Originally Posted by benzmodz

As for getting ripped off ... there is no way most of the owners in the USA would be driving a base model if they were paying 50 grand for an entry C-Class. That is what I pay and in the USA there are plenty of houses costing that much.

what exactly are you trying to say here??? doesnt make much sense to me at all.

if this makes sense to anyone else, i apologize, maybe give me a translation.

[Untertürkheim]

Originally Posted by sleewell

for me the two main weaknesses are its reliability and cost of ownership. expensive cars shouldn't have silly electrical problems - you are paying for quality craftsmanship and electrical problems speak to attention to detail in my mind.

also this whole mentality of "you drive a MB so you must have money to waste" is really dumb. my car was less than 20k when i bought it, there are many other average cars that cost more that that who dont have that stigma. yet somehow i feel like someone put a neon sign on my head that says rip me off for simple repairs bc i drive a MB. oil changes shouldn't cost 200 bucks just because you drive a nice car and they spent 20 seconds checking your fluid levels. stealerships are out of control and need to be put in check.



all that being said they are the ultimate freeway car, that is their home and what they are made for and i not talking about 55mph speed limit roads. my car is blast on the open road and feels just as comfortable at 95 as 65 and i have the bottom of the barrel entry level model.

The cost of ownership is really not too bad. You call it a $200 oil change, but considering these are only every 10-15k miles, it works out to be an annual service for most people. The oil change costs $100, and the extra $100 is for the inspection/lubrication of the rest of the parts. The service guidelines involve lubricating the hinges, suspension, steering, and these does take time. I have no problem paying $100 for the complete inspection and peace of mind.

If drove a car that did not use synthetic oil and changed the oil every 3k miles for $50 each time, that is the same price (more with TVM) than $200 every 12k miles.

[lkchris]

Originally Posted by sleewell

for me the two main weaknesses are its reliability and cost of ownership.

Think about this: a Mercedes is a lot closer to a Ferrari than to a Toyota.

No one thinks of Ferraris as "appliances" so why would you expect that from Mercedes?

[Dema]

My local Hyundai dealer sells ferrari as well.

[brent951]

Our 2004 SL500 was bought back after 4 yrs and only 12,000 miles because of the command module malfunctioning for 3 prior years. Have they improved the electrics? I certainly hope so since we just picked up an SL63.