cjf_moraga

Interesting speculation that the new 7-Series will have a TT V12... I assume similar to the way MB evolved the M137 V12 into the current M275/285 in 2003 by adding twin turbo chargers....

The glimpses of the design seems fairly bland IMO.. Rather gratuitous kidney grills... but it will be interesting to see what numbers they get from a TT version of the V12..

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/04/r...oming-july-7th

http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/06/04...iled-july-7th/

Chris

WSH

Have always found BMWs (incl Ms) lacking in steering precision; brake pedal feel/fade resist; tq/shiftspeed delivery; and chassis stability/damping vs high-speed fwys, esp vs bumpy stretches....

Also have never been impressed w/BMW safety engineering/innovation (both active and passive), at least per my common-sense eval....

And running joke among colleagues (back when some junior, non-car-oriented guys would get some Bimmer...the default car for car-clueless, aspirational guys in the finance/tech industries) was that new BMW's struggle w/such basics as competent air cond, e.g., when parked outside a SilicVy off bldg, even for a brief mtg on a 90F day deep in Valley....and basic fuel tank capacity is lacking for commuting in regions like NYC/LA/SF/Chic, where 80+mi round-trip commutes aren't uncommon btwn resid and various office corridors....

Would argue the laughable car (from an engineering/aesthetics standpoint) that has demolished MB from a marketing standpoint is VW-Bent....Bent is globally selling some ?10K/yr $200K commuter cars.....doubt MB is able to sell more than 3K/yr 65s globally....and BMW (like Audi/Lex) struggles to sell any >$100K cars, let alone $150K+ cars......

-=Hot|Ice=-

BMW is known of it's driving feel and steering input. What are you talking about? What are you smoking? Not being a fan boy here but wow.

gellie

Your not serious are you? BMW is a TRUE drivers car. While MB is more of a luxury car. You clearly have never driven a M of B7....

jbondox

it really looks closer to the 5 series then the 7... I wonder if they are using the night vision FLIR with it?

LETO

BMW's are like a hugo boss suit. Sure it gets the job done but it dosent make you feel special when you wear it!!

especially if your auto budget is over 100K

Sure they could give it a gazillion HP, steering as precise as a scalpel yatta yatta. If it still looks like butt and has a interior that makes you feel like you are in reception room awaiting a root canal, it simply wont appeal to me.

If I want something as precise and enjoyable as BMW claims their cars are, I would just get a porsche!

gellie

Why not a DB9? I thought we were comparing large sedans? BTW, when test driving the s550 vs the 750il i was very impressed with the BMW. so much in fact i'm going to trade in my 05 s500 for the new 7 when it comes out this summer. I thought the s550 was a very bland and boring ride. Not to dissimalr to a Lexus.

LETO

Gellie,

Being an exotic (DB9) it does not have the same dealer network size as BMW/Mercedes. It takes a whole different level of commitment (time and patience) to keep up with Astons, ferrari's etc Also, ownership costs are in a different league.

As far as your preference for the new 7. To each his own, good luck. If it makes you happy get it.

My point was just a couple reasons why I could not justify owning a BMW over 100K (for myself)

ahmadkshuja

Not a big BMW car fan. I love BMW motorcycles and do own one. S-Class is the class

nitromilt

I have had a number of 7 series BMW's.I got my first S class just 2 months ago even though i had wanted a MB for quite some time.I find the difference between the two to be substantial.Bmw claims to be a drivers car,well then i wonder what i have with my new S550 Sport?This car handles-drives-out performs my PAST '05 745LI, not even close,but on the same note the MB is quite a bit more $$$.I guess you just need to let your checkbook be your guide.Although i have only had my S550 for only a short time,its the best car i have ever had in my stable.

-=Hot|Ice=-

ahmadkshuja

Obviously, you love BMW. You are in the wrong forum perhaps .... most of us are S-Class fans here

Z356

I currently own an '07 CL600 and an '07 BMW 650 Convertible. My first BMW was a 1995 M3 and that made me a believer in them. I recently (March '08) attended the BMW Performance Driving school in South Carolina and test drove just about everyone of their cars on the track. They have incredible sporting machines, especially those of 'medium' weight and a powerful motor. I also own another one of their products which is also quite impressive - an '05 Mini Cooper S cabrio. And I am considering a '10 M3 for European Delivery, a great option with quantifiable dollar savings that I have done for three out of our four BMW in the past 10 years. And of course, there is nothing wrong with Porsche. I also own 3 vintage low mileage early 911 longhood cars - all with original paint & interiors. I feel no need to be in a monogamous relationship with Mercedes - let us all enjoy all of these wonderful cars before the 'greenies' make us give them up! By the way, this thread was started by a very interesting technical point on V12s by Chris, not as a bash on BMW. WSH has been pulling our chain with his BMW theory for a while now and I still have hope of changing his mind when he drives one of my Roundel cars here in Carmel or Colorado (that is an invitation). Z356.

-=Hot|Ice=-

I love the S. I'll take an S over the 7, but when someone says bmw's steering precision lacks in feel. I'm going to call BS because everyone out there knows that's not true. I'm also going to call Fan Boy.

-=Hot|Ice=-

There's no changing Fan Boys

M-bENZ

I am one of them...

Red Marko

Going back to Chris's original post...
Good news overall. Maybe V12 TT is not as dead as all treehuggers want them to be. Good post. Hope ???

*Side note
Nothing wrong to hug a tree, mind you. Just don't you dare to force me to do it with you
Middle fingeer to all fake greeners/prius drivers/riders who use them to drive to the airport .... to switch to Gulfstream G550 or so. What a joke, "global Gore/warmers" heh?

I love this forum. What a civil way to unload small frustratioins
Apology (one only) for the rant.

Going back to the thread.
BMW - nice car. WSH's and LETO's evaluation is maybe hurtful to BMW owners, but accurate (ouch) in my opinion of couse.

That's why I LOVE this great Country.
Do, whatever makes you happy. One caveat, think for yourself, don't let anybody to do it for you!
If you (not anybody else) think, that BMW is the ticket to heaven, pull the trigger (read wallet)
If you think, that MB will give you the ultimate pleasure, well...
All other brands feel free to chip-in
I know. We will never grow up.
"Mine is better than yours" argument developed quite few new car innovations...
Mark.

-=Hot|Ice=-

That's the thing, it's not correct. Go tell that to every car magazine out there and watch them laugh at you.

cjf_moraga

Well we should all be laughing back at car magazines... thats the very last place to go for an objective overview of any BMW - so in the tank are most journalists to BMW's marketing machine and that subset of a cars functional qualities that are deemed to make the car a "drivers machine" to the exclusion of other qualities that might actually be more important in real world conditions.

I really have to credit BMW with an extraordinary power to turn the average auto-journalists brain into hero worshiping mush... They have trained them well... No other marque gets such a pass... The most egregious recent example being the mountains of star struck fluff written about the E60 M5 despite its woeful (sub 200 mile) range, thirst, miserable torque, awkward SMG, wildly over complex controls, cheap plastic interior... Oh yes its great on the track and the "twisties".. which is hardly where 99% of us spend most of our time behind the wheel...

(I do like BMW's BTW!)

Chris

Red Marko

That's exactly what I said:
"One caveat, think for yourself, don't let anybody to do it for you"

...Those pesty car magazines...

One word (two actually). Test drive, and then:

"If you (not anybody else) think, that BMW is the ticket to heaven, pull the trigger (read wallet)"

...and they all lived happily ever after...

Mark.

-=Hot|Ice=-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24846944/

BMW backs up what they say. The car is truly the ultimate driving machine when you want to have some fun.

I love the current S and my mom actually wants one. Went into the dealer and I must say that the car is extravagant and comfortable. But that's where it ends.

I've come to the conclusion that BMW and Mercedes both aim towards different markets. BMW aims towards performance while the Benz aims more towards comfort and luxury.

LETO

That is why I always felt that BMW's especially the M's lately (bangelized styling) desperately need citing from magazine reviews to explain why they are special.

Well, make sure you carry all the clippings around.

LETO

I agree with that. If I could not have afforded an S. I would have bought a 750. No questions asked.

Kiemyster

So what are you trying to say? cant someone appriciate both brands? The S-class is good. ill say that. and i can say that because my father used to have one. key word? used to. he had it for a year and a half. his close friend bought a 7er the same time he got his s class.

now, i used to call him "skipper" and everyone called the s550 either the titanic or the SS Mino. good laughs. now, ive driven both, the S550 and the 750. the 7er retained that luxurious feel but it still was much more responsive than the S.

both lovely cars, but the S has no originallity. it copies its big brother, the maybach. i always said: its the poor mans maybach. it contains little original design and substance. i didnt like the interior of the S either. it was nice, but the 7 was much more sleek. not to mention the backseat was sooo much more comfortable. i didnt enjoy 2+ hour trips in the S while in the back, my *** would kill me, and my back would ache. sure, the S can sit 5 comfortable, whereas the 7 was made for 4 really because of the little bulge in the mid section. but the thing about it was i felt like i was in a lazy boy in the backseat of the 7er.

at the end of the day, the reality of it is that a mercedes is the car that you are driven in (?), but a bmw is a car you drive. end of story. you stupid fanboys really have no idea what the hell your talking about, and honestly? your missing out. but its your choice to be ignorant. at the end of the day, they are both wonderfull cars, and they serve their different purposes. albeit, I beleive BMW's are a much better all-rounder.

ahmadkshuja

Well well ... I said that before and I will say it again ... it is your personal preference. Do what makes you happy