96STSGUY

Did anyone see the review of the CTS-V on Top Gear. The car completely smoked the V-8 RS4 Audi Quattro (especially funny is when the Audi went off the track around the twisties). The European bias to this car is because the car is so good, especially around the twists/turms and the 1/4 mile numbers are equally impressive. Why are the Euro-files so nervous? This brash American car gets around the ring quicker than the M3 and the E55. I think it's time to start taking notice of American engineering, especially with the V series Caddy's and the new Z06 that flat out kicks Porche/Audi/MB in the *****.

Gus
cruzajc1@yahoo.com

benzmodz

American legal system is dragged down by lawyers in the same way that American engineering is ruined by marketing.

What we need is a way for the marketing people to talk to lawyers and then we can all get back to having fun whilst the social wheel clamps keep each other busy.

There is nothing wrong with USA technology and there is no reason why the USA should not make world class cars. All it takes is for someone to keep the bean counters and psycho-babble out of the equation. That way it can be pure machine and who gives a darn if the "left handed colour blind mid-western lesbian" demographic doesnt like it.

W204 looks a lot like the CTS-V - it seems like the next thing to look like that.

leloz

The 2006 will be even stronger because it is getting the LS2 (400 hp and 395 lb-ft of torque). With the Mallet package ($16K) and Lingenfelter package ($24K), bringing supercar performance.. it is a heck of a deal. From what I have read so far, the 2006 model has eliminated some of the differential problems and nasty wheel hop.

The upcoming 2006 STS-V & XLR-V look to be a contenders as well... but the pricing is almost double the CTS-V. Supercharged 4.6 liter, 469hp 440 ft/lbs torque. I am wondering if there will be ECU tunes to play with the boost levels and shift points.

DJE55

Problem is (with the CTS) that it's harder to look at than the 5 series BMW. The car is ugly as **** and it's a Caddy to boot. Go sit in one and compare it to the Audi, MB and any others that you think it kick's in the *****. Fit and finish (feels cheaper) don't compare. It's a caddy with a nice motor, that's it. Don't get caught up in the numbers game. Their is a lot more to buying a car than just how fast it made it around the ring. It still has to at least look good. I do agree with you about the Z06. That is a car that we should all own, and I was one of the guys that always considered it a poor man's Porsche.

leloz

In a sense yes, but in my case I could go out and buy a left over 2005 996 TT X50 coupe.. but when all is said and done, the Z06 is a perfect package for half the price and I can use the money I saved to pay for my son's Medical School tuition It was a no brainer for me.

Rock

Another troll has arrived.

Hey Brainy, if you would bother to read few threads in this forum before posting this crap, you would realize that most of us appreciate all good performance cars, American or otherwise.

MBE55AMG

E55 > All Caddies

Sorry.

It's a no-brainer.

Thanks.

You have been pwn3d.

leloz

I agree, it should be better for $80K The E55 and M5 dominate the luxury-sport sedan market, and IMO will always be worth the extra $$ over the American rivals.

On a side note, what does "pwn3d" mean?

MBE55AMG

A hacker's terminology for "Owned."

CE750

It's more than just speed.. I mean I was at the track the other day and there was a Dodge Neon that ran in the 11's, and a Toyota Supra with 1300 hp that ran in the 9's.. Both ugly as heck, and build like crap from a luxury standpoint.. Anyone can make a car fast.. and for the most part, most cars today are FAST ENOUGH.


But the SINGLE biggest problem with American cars is their workmanship/fit and finish, an materials used.... they are one step better than the former Soviet Union cars of that by gone era.

I went thru my friends $74,000 Cadillac Escalade with the following observations in just a matter of 5 minutes:

-Plastic wood, very, very cheap
-carpeting doesn't feel nice, fit around the entire car is poor at best
-leather seats stitching looks like it's about to come apart at various "unseen" corners of the seats.
-dashboard / interior plastics are comparable to the plastic I see on my son's $10 toys from Target
-electronic displays are using 1980's technology LED type displays, not color LCD.
-Door slam sound is filled with rattles.
-Wheel wells are made of cheap plastics, especially for a heavy duty vehicle

That is what's wrong with American cars.. along with the crappy styling that goes over the top more often than not.

zumbalak

I completely agree.

I had a couple of long test drives of the cts-v, amazing engine, great power etc, but it stayed there. It is nowhere near in terms of fit and finish and quality to M3, c55 or the s4. I said to myself I will not pay 50K for a car just because it has a corvette engine in it, I even think the Camry or Accord with leather interior feels better than the Cadillac.

In luxury car market, American manufacturers (lincoln and cadillac) need to understand what the customers need first, and it is luxury. Wonder why Lexus became a household name in here in less than 20 years. They offer excellent interiors, they offer luxury that American manufacturers do not.

leloz

You pay for what you get. The C55 is more of a CTS-V rival than the E55 with regards to size and performance. Personally I would pick the CTS-V because of the handling (just look at the Nurburgring times), modification capability (more parts readily available for LS engines), and most of all: manual gearbox.

I used to own a 2004 ESV Platinum, which is probably what your friend drives from the price you posted. It was NOT worth the extra $25K over my previous Suburban, however I needed a large vehicle capable of pulling cars to shows and taking long trips. There was no European counterpart that could do the same for me, which is not the case in the sports sedan segment.

American cars are cheaper for a reason and always will be. For someone who wants a capable daily driver that can hold its ground at the track and does not have $80K.. the CTS-V fits the bill.. or a C55 if you want a Automatic transmission.

Just my .02$

NOTKTS

I'm curious as to where you get 74K from Even if it was the ESV Platinum Edition the MSRP would be a tick over 70K and they invoice them for low 60s unless your friend was really ignorant, No offense. But the PE, has a major improvement on interior refinement.

Now I know that my ESV is no Range Rover in terms of fit and finish but it is what it is. Frankly the Escalade wouldn't be as popular if everything is as bad as you say on most accounts. It's not because of the rappers that made them popular, to me and most it was the choice between the Suburban or Yukon XL and a ESV. *I didn't consider the X5, RR or ML due to their trunk size* So... Go compare a Chevy/GMCs fit and finish to a ESV and see what improvements have been made.

Andaluz

Hi everyone.

Another newbie has arrived.

Don't worry folks, I like Mercedes.

OK...so let's see what STS96GUY is on about...

1- It was an Audi S4 4.2 V8 340 Bhp. Not the RS4. The RS4 outputs 415 Bhp. And the RS4 differs from the S4, because it has 80% of the power driven through the rear wheels, while the S4 has 50/50 of the power both transfered to the rear and the front.

The Audi S4 Saloon costs Ł37.000 which is Ł8.000 less than the Cadillac CTS-V: Ł45.000 and you don't even get the steering on the right side of the car...tsk, tsk, tsk...how lame is that.

The Audi also offers an Estate version: The S4 Avant which costs Ł42.000.

Not to mention, the Audi looks better, it's better finished and it's got RHD. So, the Cadillac may be the winner on the Top Gear test-track, but in real life, I'm afraid to say the Audi S4 is the better (correct) choice.

2- We don't have any bias against your cars. I wonder, why every time an European publication slates an American car, you guys come with that "Media Bias" thing? Is not our fault, if you manufacturers are way too worried with unions and make cars during launch breaks...make a REALLY GOOD Product and you get good press, make a lame product and it'll get bad press.

There is no sort of conspiration against American products, generally GM products; But then that's what happen when you an Old fart running the company and the CEO got D ("D" from D!ckhead) in geography and doesn't know, that in UK we drive on the left!

3- Again, it's not our fault if "GM's global thinking" is TOTALLY FLAWED! Everywhere outside Detroit, the Cadillac name means less than DIDDLY SQUAT! Jesus...with GM half the time the attitude is "LALALALALA It's fine for me (where I live) it's fine for everyone else..." WTF is this about?!

If you want to launch your brand as a serious competitor in a premium segment, you need to at least GIVE THE IMPRESSION of caring about your market. Like having a dealership network for instance. And importing the car with the steering wheel on the correct BLOODY side of the car.

Like doing some research into what people expect and want, and trying to deliver it. People don't like to be treated like they will buy "any old cr*p we sell" for Ł40k because of a name. And right now, US names are worth next to nothing in the UK.

4- The Cadillac CTS-V may be faster than the BMW M3 and as Top Gear proved: It can outperform an Audi S4 V8 Quattro. Thing is though: While the CTS-V may work well in NA, it's totally Useless in Britain, chiefly because Cadillac doesn't sell the V-Series in UK and partly because the CTS-V is not imported officially through the 4 Cadillac dealers in UK and to make matters worse: They're only Left-Hand-Drive.

Like I said: Cadillac is not even established in Europe - it has been dropped here like a fish on a dry beach. Furthermore, the cars they sell are straight ports of what is sold in the USA, which were designed without any thought or insight into the European market.

Let's not forget that European taste differs a lot from American taste. GM announced the BLS - The exclusive Cadillac for the Euro market - which is nothing more than a Saab under an Ugly body, that looks like a Cadillac CTS squished together with a Toyota Avensis.

They don't have Diesel engines - look how Lexus floundered in Europe for years without Diesel engines. Finally they announced the next gen Lexus IS will have Diesel engine option.

5- Last time Cadillac sold cars in Europe, actually they only sold one model: The Seville STS - they FAILED MISERABLY. The Seville STS was a commercial flop and having driven a 2000 Seville STS (the one with the Northstar 4.6 32 Valve V8 and 300 Bhp) I could see why the car flopped: Because, it's RUBBISH! Yes, your precious car is nothing more than a hateful dinosaur which just doesn't make sense outside the US.

Chassis so hopeless that you can't use the only decent bit of the car. I've never driven a car that rolls this much through the corners, and who allowed the combination of 300 bhp and front drive?! Totally Ridiculous!

In the US with smooth, straight roads, the STS is probably a fine car. Come to the UK and things are different. Uneven surfaces, lots of tight corners, variable surfaces, odd cambers etc etc. Every time you open her up, the traction control goes nuts. What is the point? Not to mention the horrifc Torque Steer from those 300 rampaging horses going through the front wheels.

I driven a BMW M3 (E46) and the Bimmer was a lot more usable and it handled much better. Off course: 96STSGUY will claim "It's not Fair to compare a Luxury Sedan with a Sporty Coupe". I'm sorry: But didn't Cadillac say the Seville STS was the "American Sport Sedan" ? Yeah right...pathetic losers...The STS is only what it is named for-Super Touring Sedan.

6- No dissing American cars intended. I'm just pissed off, at this Bloke who comes to this great forum, and then start to insult European car owners and offend the British people. Please: Can anyone ban this guy?

Andaluz

Is he a Troll? Most definitely YES!

MJ1133

At the end of the day it's still an American POS.

FThornton666

First of all thats just a B7 S4 which has the same HP, and same suspension as a B6 S4. A B7 RS4 will walk a CTS-V no question about it. I dont even like AUDI, but i do enjoy their Red Badge models. If you notice the part in the beggining the CTS-V is barely moving and cause the audi to brake hard, because the CTS cant take the turns as fast.

CE750

I don't know **** about those cars, so I couldn't tell you what kind of trim it came in, but the dealers window sticker price of the car was $74,495 (which included dealer add ons like the crazy rims) and he told me it was top of the line and rare, and my friend isn't the type to ask for discounts, so I can tell you he prolly paid the full asking price... so for all I know, with tax and lic., it cost him North of 80K, and frankly its a complete POS. The interior is a slight improvement over a bone stock Chevy 2500... that's pretty sad. My $48K Volvo was built several orders of magnitude better both in interior trim, and in exterior fit and finish.. plus I have a Boron Steel safety cage, active anti-roll gyro's and other safety features unheard of in the US market cars.

Sorry if you love yours, but I wouldn't be caught dead owning one, not to mention the roll over tendency of such a vehicle defeats the safety benefit of it's size.

I think it's popular because it's "in" and this is exactly why my friend bought one, to add his fleet of fine cars, (some not so fine).. he's all image and wouldn't know the difference in quality between his Bentley and his Avalanche!

Don't take offense (please) it's not personal, and I don't know you.. but looking at the fleet of cars you own, I see you have a Lambo.. MB SL, and other great, well made cars... you you can't see the inferior quality of the Cadi? I sometimes wonder how people can make so much money and remain so clueless.

Grumpy666

A quick clarification. The supercharged engine is actually 4.4 liters. The bore size of the Northstar was reduced to provide more mass in the block to withstand the increased forces caused by the supercharger.

IdriveFast

i really fail to see how the CTS-V kicks Mecerdes-Benz in the *****. MB has never claimed to make their cars the faster around a track. AMG cars have competent handling and drag potential. They are daily drivers, not track cars.

The CTS-V gets around a track faster than an E55. Whoopdy *******g doo. Nobody cares. If the CTS-V beats AMG's at the drag strip however, that would be different. And dont start comparing Z06 with E55's or anything like that. They arent even comparable since they arent even the same type of car.

In the end....your a moron....thats pretty much it....you trolling here and posting something like that, which fails to prove anything at all, clearly proves this

96STSGUY

If you objectively watch the video, you will see the CTS-V clearly outperfoms the Audi, especially in the corners...hence the Audi sliding in the dirt. Additionally, the reviewer say he can't put his finger on it, but the car feels cheap? Cmon, if that isn't bias, i don't know what is. Another complaint is the chiming. Seems that they couldn't really fault anything in the car. As far as fit/finish, Americans definitely have different taste, i've seen audi/MB interiors (Brothers is MB owner) and I can honestly say it was as nice as any other modern car/ American or European. Americans like to be brash/make a statement. The Z06/V series Cadillac have proved that the Euro-files are snooty old fogies who time is past and i know many MB owners feel the same way. Ban me, for what speaking the truth. As far as my car (96STS) the Northstar is a great performer for a big Cadillac and it suits my purposes. Having fun at the 1/4 mile track and a daily driver with a nice V-8 rumble. Sorry your roads in Europe suck so bad, my point is that if you take the entire Top gear review, you can spot the obvious bias. What's next a Top Gear review of the Z06 saying it too American, too fast, handles too well and let me see, there's something about the Z06 I don't like, can't put my hands on it, it just feels cheap. Bollicks as you say in Europe.

Andaluz

NOTKTS

I mainly bought the ESV to basically "trick" it out... I have a system that you can hear a mile away and 7 LCDs to boot *6 13W7s/6 1000/1s* I'm really not worried about rollovers due to the fact that I don't try and take corners like I do in the SL or Murci. However, the other day I saw a accident on 417 involving a 2 Expeditions that rolled over and the roofs had to be cut off... That did make me think twice but hey, all driving is dangerous and no car is 100% safe. They all have their faults.

But as far as your friend giving into the dealers crazy prices I truly feel sorry for him. That frankly is ridiculous. I remember when I saw an EXT with AR 22’s and they were ask 12K for them… I almost **** a brick right then and there. And yes, the Escalade could use some major interior refinements however… It was the choice I was basically stuck with and I got this one at a rather steal; about 25K off sticker. Like I said it fit the bill and all cars have their downsides. Some of us couldn’t justify it but it was in my case…

Haha, I understand your thoughts and “concerns” for the clueless-ness of many people. For instance I ask my self why do people buy Phantoms instead of Maybach 62s with 100xs the amount of refinements and doodads. It may be because of personal preference or like you said “in”…

Also… To tell you the truth. Out of all the cars I have owned I’m frankly most disappointed in the interior of the Murci. It lacks innovation and while I admire its simplicity there is major room for improvement.

NOTKTS

SargeinAZ

The e55 is my favorite sports sedan, but Im pretty sure you can make a CTS-V faster at the drag stip if you wanted to. CTS-V is 52 grand or something, so you would have like 32 grand to put into it to reach the e55s base price. I dont know, but I think it can be done. Oh well, Id still take an e55 all day every day, even if a CTS-V has 1000 hp.