AMGSC

I would like some advice on how to add more power to my car without having to spend more than $5K. HPS advises against modifying/changing the ECU, Headers, Exhausts, Intakes or just about anything else.

What are Green Filters or K&N Filters? Will they help. What about LSD? Any other suggestions.

I'm happy with the HPS system because I don't want to spend over $10K on the Charger. I know that roots blowers are not quite as powerful as Twin-Screw blowers but power kicks in earlier (lower RPM) I also heard they are a bit more reliable and simpler. Can anybody tell what else separates the new Eaton Roots blower from the Lysholm?.

I just needed a little differentiation from all the others and the extra kick when changing lanes. I'm too old (45) to track the car or set any records but if the value is there I would consider adding a few more performance options just for fun.

2QUIK4U

If want to keep it at 5k, go buy a set of Kleeman headers and an ecu. This should get you above the 400 mark. Plus, you can always add more later (i.e. supercharger, LSD, etc.)

Filters will add a nominal amount of power (if any). LSD is a big plus, especially when you supercharge the car (then it actually becomes a necessity).

Use search the function, there is a plethora of information on all the recommended tuners (i.e. Kleemann and Renntech).

AMGSC

Actually I've already supercharged my car with the HPS system. I've gained an initial 147hp without any ECU, Headers, Exhausts, Downpipes, etc..They told me I should some additional HP after a few thousand miles because the engine only had 800 miles on it when I did this. HPS does not offer other stuff I mentioned above so I was wondering if anyone has tried adding these to the HPS system and what were the results. Effective or not?

AMGSC

Here is my dyno chart. Adam told me that this should get better after a month or so of driving to loosen the brand new engine and also for the Car to adapt to the new SC.

dragonAMG

That is a huge gain, with only a S/C. Mind you, this is RWHP we're talking about here. How are you not running a new ecu program with a s/c setup? Did you modify the fuel delivery?

Bennyz is running the Renntech s/c setup with almost every mod in the book and you're putting down 13 more HP than him on just a HPS s/c

Post some pictures of your setup.

JamE55

Congrats on your HPS kit. I see you're in LA maybe we could meet up and compare notes or even do some test runs? Let me know or PM me your info.

This would be quite interesting to see.

Kleemann vs RennTech vs HPS! Do it!

BennyZ

yeah,
not to be an *** but all I have to say is suspect!
That is one hell of a S/C you got there.
Josh, for a stock S/C only, this upgrade is better than both our setups! And probably cheaper, I just don't get it

and for the record - rwhp and dyno does not tell how fast the car is!

Benny

dragonAMG

Ya... no kidding. In terms of power, I was thinking the same thing. But there's definitely something to be said for the workmanship, reliability, prestige, exclusivity, etc. that Kleemann offers.

BennyZ

and i would thing that the ECU would have to be reprogrammed

Zeppelin

If you spent 10K on the SC and now you want to spend 5K more for more power, why didn't you just get the Kleemann SC to begin with.

JamE55

The HPS is a great setup. Only draw back i've heard is that HPS doesn't advise their customer to add other additional aftermarket mods (ecu, headers etc..) to their kit or they won't support it.

dragonAMG

I'm no expert at this stuff and that's obviously why I choose Kleemann... but, I definitely agree... that just doesn't make sense. To add to that point, if it wasn't reprogrammed and the fuel setup / FMU wasn't changed, how could it run efficently and safely for that matter? How can you just slap a s/c on a car and not tune the car?

carlosrg

Guys I know you are all wondering how HPS is doing this. Working on cars I can say that Factory ECUs are very smart they can easily adopt themselves for slightly larger injectors and target A/F especially in open feedback loop. From what I can tell they use a black box which modifies timing and fuel trim and is actually laptop programmable.

So what upgrades would work with this kit and that I am currently considering it myself.

Thats a good question small upgrades like air intake, headers, high flow cats, and exhaust sytem. But I would take a preactive step and tune before upgrade and after.

Ideally I would like to see a custom ECU program for the car that retards a bit of timing for under load application, and softens A/F open loop target range, and modifies the pulsewidth for the injectors, and also gets rid of that annoying speed limiter

As far as your question "Eaton Roots blower from the Lysholm"

The Lysholm Blowers are similar to the Helical Roots blower however the rotor themselves are twisted a bit and have a conical taper. Which means these screw type compressors have an internal compression, making them more efficient in high boost applications. Because of the more efficient design of the screw you tend to see more boost in lower RPMS which means more power.

Whipple Superchargers are a good example of Lysholm Superchargers. And they give you info on them.
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/....asp?PageID=79

If had the supercharger installed already and wanted to spend another 5K I would probably get a Thicker headgasket made and installed and put a slightly smaller pulley made and have boost increased a bit :-P But then again you are probably asking the wrong person LOL.

PC Valkyrie

At one point in time, I was interested in supercharging with Kleeman. Even with Kleeman, the supercharger could have been added as the sole mod. Reprogramming the ECU was an extra option that costed a bit more.

jtc55

please post pics of new S/C, me wants to see!!!!

BTW, how much for the HPS system?

knepster

HPS has a special till Feb '06 $7500

AMGSC

I tried to upload 5 pics but the 1260 x 820 pixel files were too large. I will try to reduce the file size and upload again. There is one lower resolution one that was just added to the MYHPS.COM web sight GALLERY. It is the 1st pic (2006 C55 with the RUSNAK dealer plates.

The entire system cost me $6800 Materials + $1500 Labor to install and tune. But I got a further discount for waiting until after Thanksgiving Holiday. I can't give you the final discounted price since I doubt Adam can offer this price again.

AMGSC

I reduced the resolution and pixels. So here are a few pics.

Ted Baldwin

.........s/c technology has been available for decades. There isn't really a big seceret that one company knows that the other is blind to. HPS gen s s/c was discussed about a year ago as being quite superior gen one and offering equal HP as Kleemann. Plus, you have no warranty from Kleemann and HPS offers a warranty. Kleemann has very good products obviously, but as you can see others do too. Obviously, his s/c is running efficiently in order to produce 414RWHP. Hero worshipping one company leads to lack of objectivity. This is not specific to Kleemann, as there are members of this forum that think Brabus and Jesus mean the same thing.

.........HPS does not have ECU, headers etc. A friend of mine was actually working to develop that part of HPS's business, including K1 mods for AMGV8K, but he left the car business. In just few years, HPS has markedly improved their s/c at half the cost of other tuners.

Ted

dragonAMG

Interesting.... pretty cool man... 414 rwhp on $8,600... can't beat that.

AMGSC

For the pure enthusiast your money is well spent. For a little extra power without breaking my budget my money was also well spent. Your car is definitely the gold standard.

But I'll definitely consider some upgrades and will continue reading everyone's suggestions to determine the order of instalallation and the value of each.

I hope HPS begins developing complementary power boosting components soon as well.

Keep the suggestions coming! Thanks

knepster

how is the supercharge whine? Loud?

AMGSC

They tell me that this is a second generation Roots SC which has twisted rotors similar to the twin-screw types. As for the Whine, I cannot detect any until I hit 4000rpm but it sounds pretty quiet to me. It actually sounds a bit like a Jet "shoosh". Maybe it has something to do with the fact the SC sits on top of the engine instead of being bolted on like HPS's first gen. Another fact is that the HPS SC is not casted but billet machined from a single block of Aluminum so if there was any noise it would have been muffled by the Block. The overheating problem caused by the escaping air being re-pushed back into the engine a second or even third time has also been addressed because the gaps where the air escapes has been sealed/eliminated with much tigher tolerances. The machined Aluminum block head with the verticl grading also dissipates heat better than a casted SC according to several engineers and mechanics I spoke to and also read on the net.

Kenzmbz

All these supercharged C55's are making me droooooL

nishi

i heard about HPS a while back but never considered it since no1 every tried it. it is my mistake i believe - the s/c technology is not a secret in this industry... its the brand name that most of us care about =P If your HPS system works fine and you can really feel a difference, I'm really gonna go for it. 414 RWHP in an SLK55.. good lord...

=D
keep us posted!

ProjectC55

Beautiful job they did there AMGSC! Now I'm conflicted because just when I thought I'd be going with the 1st gen HPS kit which E55cent has been having success with,the price,kit improvements and performance of the 2nd gen kit looks very enticing enticing. Good luck and nice job HPS did there,please do keep us posted.

dsb

I wonder if it would in fact work on a slk55. Their website doesn't list that model. I thought it was the exact same engine as the C55. Is there other problems (ie clearance) that would restrict the HPS supercharger on the slk?

ProjectC55

It is the same exact engine! It should not be an issue(clearance) on the SLK55.There should be no restrictions.

Kenzmbz

Those are some hot w202 in your sig

nishi

http://www.myhps.com/clientuploads/_photos/_19/_369.jpggood thing the exact same picture is on the myhps.com website... from someone living in Irvine =o weird!

Richard Galing

Congrats on your HPS purchase, I had my Gen II unit installed on my E430 a year ago and during the 4.5 months I had the unit on my car I did venture on a few upgrades to boost power...and yes, despite against Adam & Bill's recommendation, but they were cool with it since I kept them in the loop.

I do highly recommend you install a boost & fuel pressure gauge before any upgrades, this should be mandatory when adding aftermarket FI units. Send me a PM if you want detail info on my HPS upgrade modifications.

Looks like you got a good deal on your HPS kit, Adam gave me a smokin deal I couldn't refuse...under $6K installed out the door and he even payed for my rental car, and assisted me in selling the unit, his customer service was outstanding!

Good luck and enjoy it!

ProjectC55

Thanx! I love those rims on your car.Are they HRE's?



I'm thinking more and more of going positive displacement S/C on my car.I have to call Adam.

E55Cent

Carl you know you want a roots style blower. The instant TQ will put a smile on your face time after time. I have very little issues with my blower but I would have loved to get the Gen II but I also wanted money to buy HRE's. If I would have bought the Gen II then I would be riding around on 16" American Racing wheels.
I love my supercharger and the loud whine scares small children more than tent full of clowns.
Refi that house and pull out 12k to make that C55 your dream car.
Mario

Catapult

I noticed the engine cowling looks nothing like what's on my C55. Was this part of the kit?

ProjectC55

LOL! Just got back the block for the Talon,$$$$ more $$$$.That's my next big project as of now.550awhp. With the c55 I don't know what I want to do Mario.Project after project ,$$$$$$$. I still have to put the Schrick cams in my 99 M3 but I have to take them out of the M332i.
More $$$$

If I take $$ out the house I'll have to live in the car I'm gonna sell my black M332i is what I'm gonna do.

However this gen II S/C from HPS seems like the real deal if they got all the bugs out.It's a no brainer price wise and HP wise compared to Renntech and kleeman!

360_iti

?? what's so weird abt it ? Irvine is still in the LA metro area.

AMGSC

I have now put close to 3000 miles on the car and noticed a DRAMATIC increase in power since the first dyno's were done after installation. I will schedule a follow-up dyno in Early January.

I think Adam and Bill were right about the expected power gains over the time and miles as the brand new engine loosens up and also the ECU adapts over time to the new SC. I feel that the car has at LEAST 10-20% more power because the car was so tight immediatley after te install and 1st dyno. You can see that my baseline HP was only 293rwhp when it should be closer to 300 rwhp.

Has anyone added Carlsson, Kleeman, Lorinser, Renntech, etc...performance mods on top of a HP gen II SC with any long term success?

AMGSC

Thanks for everyone's advice.

I am now considering the following in numerical order...
1) Smaller Pulleys.
2) Headers
3) K&N or Green Filters
4) Replace Exhaust System and remove resonator
5) ECU reprogram
6) LSD
7) Cams and Downpipes.

Does this make sense?

JamE55

Why don't you ask HPS first since HPS advises against modifying/changing the ECU, Headers, Exhausts, Intakes or just about anything else.

smgC32

What air boxes are those? Same size as the C32. Do you have an auxillary coolant tank? Does the hood close without any obstructions?

KompressorKev

congrats on the s/c setup!

i would recommend doing ECU and headers. ecu is vital since safety is key, you want to make sure your afr's are healthy and timing and fuel is all tuned for your setup. if you are running rich, then you will free up some power if you lean it out (safely). if you are running lean, then this should be corrected. i think getting your ecu tuned should be a must, even if tuners say it isn't necessary, the safety and possible power gain is worth it. and programming specific to your car will only make your setup run safer and more efficient. you should pick up some decent power for the money with ecu tuning.

i definitely recommend getting headers as well. they always seem to be a bottleneck area on mercedes engines. the amg v8's and v6's always benefit greatly from headers - the geometry of the stock headers makes you wonder how inefficient the airflow is. stock headers are especially inadequate for your supercharged platform, now that you have so much air in, your exhaust is likely stifling some of your power output. at least on the v6 kompressor and v8 kompressor motors, the stock headers are pathetic, and at least on c32 i know, are the same as the non-amg motors of the same configuration (c32 headers stock same as c320's). the stock headers are very restrictive, and gains from changing them to tuner headers are pretty dramatic on amg cars. i'm not sure how many cats you have, but on c32 i know, there is a set of secondary cats which are useless, and deleting them will free up a little power (but at very very low cost), and since the 02 sensor is before them, deleting the secondaries will cause no Check Engine Lights.

camshafts are probably not the best return on investment money wise. i don't mean to nitpick, but "cams and downpipes" don't really go together. it should be headers and downpipes, or cams and other associated valvetrain, like valve springs is usually what tuners offer. cams can be beneficial, but the margin with which you are tuning is very small and their relatively high cost makes them some of the last modifications to do, especially on a budget-conscious mod plan. since you're supercharged, you can't play with duration and overlap, but only lift. for the price tuners are charging for blower-grind cams, i don't think it's worth it. i'd definitely recommend ecu and headers before camshafts.

i'm not sure if anybody answered this yet, but the Roots (eaton) and Twin-Screw (aka "Lysholm", AMG uses IHI) are fundamentally different, though they are both considered "positive displacement" superchargers. Roots blowers, such as HPS, are external compressing. that is, they do not internally compress air, but rather the "rotors" expedite the air at a faster rate than normal to the intake manifold where the air is crammed together and thus the charge of air is "compressed". they are least adiabatically efficient, but are the least expensive. twin-screw blowers are internal-compressing, where two "screws" mesh air in the blower and compress it. they are more adiabatically efficient, but are also more expensive. roots and twin-screw blowers produce similar powerbands, as they are both "positive displacement" superchargers, i.e. it seems like the car now has a bigger motor. they both produce great low-end torque, unlike centrifugal superchargers, whose boost is inveresely related to the square of the rpm. basically roots and twin-screw blowers are both positively displacement, but produce boost in a different way, i.e. external vs. internal compression, respectively.

overall i think you would best benefit from ECU and Headers. the price of air filters is nominal, you should probably pick these up anyway, but it is not a significant mod.

Vark

subscribing

ProjectC55

excellent explanation!

rockgt302

If you do the ECU you may screw up the calibrations they made the SC to run at. A smaller pulley to create more boost, not a good idea on a motor with such high compression. I think the CR is 11.0.1 seven psi is alot. I ran 13psi on a stang with a CR of 8.5.1.

Josh K

I definitely wouldn't do a smaller pulley on an Eaton that already runs hot. The first thing you should do is look into upgrading the cooling (upgraded heat exchanger and/or the water/alc injection band-aid).

KompressorKev

true, the eaton (roots-type) is the least adibatically efficient, and being external-compression, generates the most heat. i think cooling is something that would net more power especially for something as heat-sensitive as the eaton unit

E55Cent

I wouldn't do the smaller pulley either. I did it on my Gen 1 but I was only at 4lbs and now I'm at 5.5. Your Gen II is at 7lbs and even though we have the same motor, yours is 11.0 to 1 comprssion and my is 10.5 to 1. I would do headers, bigger cooler, ECU (if you can) and a cooling mist.
Good luck, I love you car.
Mario

AMGSC

WOW! That was a alot of GREAT ADVICE!

I will definitely ask Bill K, the Engineering Director and Creater of the SC at HPS about the cooling upgrade since he is already going to install a special pulley kit that will get me another 1-2 lbs of boost in exchange for exhibiting my car at the LA Auto Show (Jan 6-15th). They will also install the K&N filters.

Bill mentioned that he "still has a few extra tricks up his sleeve" so I guess I'll ask him what they are when the show closes. I also want to get his blessing on the Headers, Downpipes and Exhausts since some of you made a good point about that. As far as ECU I will ask him exactly what they do to the stock ECU to make a replacement unnecessary.

Nobody has mentioned the traction problem. Is the LSD that much better than the stock ESP? I have experienced some slippage when I accelerate from zero. Would ligher, wider, bigger rims and softer tires help?

E55Cent

AMGSC, I saw your car at the L.A. car show. It looked great and I love the carbon fiber lip. I'm glad to hear you are happy with your car and S/C, but I guess we all just want a little more power. :v
Keep us posted
Mario

Richard Galing

I'm glad to hear Bill is now open to modifications on the HPS kit, this is a plus. A year ago, I use to get messages from him to leave the system design well enough alone. He's a great guy and means well.

Give Jim McFarland or Travis a call at Mech Tech, they are more hands-on and can provide real world results, also they each played a role in the design aspect of the Gen II kit.

I did receive your PM...sorry for my tardy response!

I do suggest you install a reliable boost & fuel pressure gauge, it becomes really handy and can save your engine's life.

Madd props on the CF spoiler, it looked real wicked on ur blown C55!!!