E55Cent

So what were the numbers and which cars were fixed?

genechien

so what are the final numbers after all that tuning?

AMGSC

Just got back from the shop....

Some good news but still got a few kinks to work out. First of all the bad news.

The car just will not stay in 3rd gear. Jim had to baby the acclerator pedal until it gets past 3000rpm in order to prevent the downshifting. When he stomped on it the car immediately downshifted into 2nd gear.

I saw some strange dyno numbers when this happened. I recalled several max torque lbs in the low 500's (517,527?????) but the rwhp was something in the low 300s (338, ????). Jim swears that if the car did'nt shift down to 2nd the car would get another 50 rwhp from the 396rwhp highest pull. The last three consecutive pulls that I witnessed were 393,396 & 389 rwhp with rwtq at 406,404, 402 but the engine had close to 30+ pulls throughout the day as they were trying to figure out how to lock the tranny in 3rd gear. They even pulled fuses and it did'nt work. The MB techs at the Escondido dealer swears that there is no way to lock the tranny unless you go through the DME. I know the car has more hp than 396 because the torque reached the 500's and the curve STARTED AT 4000RPM! Normally a C55 with a hybrid roots blower generates torque at 2000RPM.

That is why debugging project is still incomplete. I am getting my car back on Friday after HPS does some test drives to allow further adaptation. They will dyno the car one more time before handing it over to me for the weekend.

HPS is in contact with tuners in Germany to acquire the files to Reprogram the DME for to tranny (torque converter adjustment?). When they get the files then I will bring my car back in. I really believe based on what I saw that this car can make over 450rwhp once the downshifting issue is corrected but we'll see.

BTW... The injectors were a changed again to a variable type (asked not to mention brand) that can pump anywhere from 30 to 50lbs of fuel per hour per HP. AFR is running 11.5 all the way across RPM band.

ProjectC55

Glad to see some progress!

Richard Galing

No rush, whenever possible I'm sure you've got your hands full. I received your emails...hit you right back.

On your earlier post, you asked if the Split Second product will work on the HPS Gen II kit....Yes, I utilized the PSC1-003 to control the fuel mixture over the load range. Mark @ SS will built a custom unit for your application and dyno tune it at South Coast German Cars. Also, I used the 20 amp KB BAP for the stock fuel pump, I later upgraded the pump. MSD has a booster for FI applications which I currently use and recommend, the MSD unit has a MAP sensor input which allows it to ramp pump voltage with boost. The MSD's voltage vs. MAP ramp rate is user adjustable. The KB unit uses a fixed pressure switch. When manifold pressure reaches a preset level the switch closes which activates the KB's boost function. The KB's voltage output instantly jumps from 12V to whatever the user has set it at. This can typically causes a fuel pressure spike.

I see your numbers are improving, that's good news!!! Hope the weekend bring you good weather for an eventful drive.

I'm clueless to this day as to why I had the same issues at Mech Tech's dyno, but at (2) other dyno shops no fault occurred.

E55Cent

Those are some nice numbers, things are looking up. The tranny thing is weird to me. I wonder if the tranny is having problems because it was tampered with when the ECU tunning began. Why couldn't HPS leave the tranny control unit alone in the first place? I wonder if they have opened another bag of worms.

JamE55

Good to hear that things are improving! Can you post some dyno sheets? Also what exactly do you have to achieve those 393,396 and 389 rwhp just the HPS s/c kit and 37lb injectors? Custom ECU? 91 program correct?

Vadim-SoCal

This is called torque converter spike and is usually seen during downshift or upshift. Do not let them claim this is where peak number is. That is not true.

Again, something is wrong. Stock transmission can handle 400 rwhp without any reprogramming.


Sorry, but without headers and cams you will not see 450 rwhp. Again look at Dragons Kleemann C55.

AMGSC

I asked Jim about installing headers and he told me that from his experience the headers are a waste of money. Here's why...It's very expensive, takes a long time to install and calibrate and most importantly of all makes practically no horsepower because the Cats basically still restricts the increased exhaust Air flow. He did say that removing the resonators and increasing the diameter of the straight pipe by 1/2" will increase HP by at least 5-6rwhp. I am planning to do this immediately. This can be done for about $500 installed for a stainless still replacement straight pipe. The resonators will be removed as part of this process of course. He strongly advised against high-flow cats because of the problems it creates (sensors, etcc) until the factory cats wear out.

AMGSC

I have just the HPS supercharger, 37lb injectors and ECU reprogramming. Gas is standard 91 octane Costo Gas. Temps were in the 75F when dyno was run but the car had over 30+ pulls during the day so it was pretty heat-soaked when I got those last three numbers.

ProjectC55

That's BS! Read this!:https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...&highlight=pte and I suggest that you follow his posts as he did do his upgrades in stages.He did a custom exhaust as well as the headers and noticed a difference N/A! His car runs a 12.6 with drag radials on at I think 110mph.That's almost there with many Stck W211 E55's time wise.

AMGSC

Jim said that all the newer models has this Cats restriction. I believe the gentlemen referred in your thread has a 2003 CLK. Mine is a 2006.

JamE55

A waste of money? Practically makes no horsepower? You seriously have to be kidding right? It's true that it maybe expensive (then again these are not honda cars). But if that's the case then how come there's a headers market out there if it practically makes no HP? Also if i'm not mistaken when you upgrade the headers on these cars you'll also have to upgrade the CATS because the headers are of different diameter than stock and will not work with stock CATS. Just look at the pic below (stock vs kleemann) and tell me if that doesn't make a difference in HP performance. Also look at the piping diameter. The kleemanns are bigger. I've been using race high flow cats for about 8mos now with no problem at all.

Thericker

There is some truth to the cat deleat adding more of the power, even your Kleemann header upgrade includes this cat deleat similar to what I had done @ Mcdonalds --Primary cat-deleat secondarys replaced w/hi-flo racing cats it does add ponies

AMGSC

What you are saying is not inconsistent with what Jim is saying. IF you replace the CATS then of course you get more HP but Jim advises against replacing the CATS because it's problematic and illegal in many cases.

MARK CUMMINS

Does JIM know about CARB certified Products? IE Headers and CAT converters?
They ARE legal for road use .....

Clk&Slk

Who the hell told you that they touch the tranny control unit !!!!! The only thing that they touch is related to the tranny is rise the engine rev to 6600-6700 rpm. Kleemann did the same thing on some car as high as 6900 rpm.

AMG's car don't have the tranny slipping now that the engine tuning is completed !!! This is what happen, during the tuning stages, we saw some weird engine power spikes and the car wasn't make smooth power. We first thought that tranny is slipping. So they said that we might have to fine tuning the tranny software. But then later we found out that it was the injectors max out that caused the engine to acted weird on the dyno. Then we went with a RC44 and the injectors was still acted weird. Finally, they discovered that the CR injectors didn't work well with Bosch ECU. So they decided to try difference brand injectors and BAM !!!!!! The JOB is DONE !!!

They only problem right now is, we don't know how to get the car to dyno it in 3th or 4th to record a nice power band from 20000 rpm to redline. Since Mercedes tech couldn't help Jim MUCH with the dyno procedure, So they're talking about getting the tranny files to see if they can change the setting in the tranny so they can dyno the car in 3 gear from 2000 rpm to redline. THAT'S ALL PEOPLE !!!!

E55Cent

[QUOTE=Clk&Slk]Who the hell told you that they touch the tranny control unit !!!!! The only thing that they touch is related to the tranny is rise the engine rev to 6600-6700 rpm. Kleemann did the same thing on some car as high as 6900 rpm.
[QUOTE]

Easy Lihn, you are running on way too much boost.

Does anyone know for sure if Kleemann and other company's touch the Rev limter when dealing with a 400whp 55 motor? I know BMW raise RPM and adjust line pressure on their auto's but I thought most MB tuners stayed away from messing with the tranny.
Do the people that have the K2, K3, and K4 mods have stock tranny settings on thier supercharged 55 motors, like the 211 E55?
I was always told never to touch the Rev limiters on Mercedes.

Clk&Slk

To much BOOST....??? Here your answer...............

Vadim-SoCal

WOW! Talking about being DEFENSIVE.................LIHN!!!!!!!!!!

Let me see, I think pretty much everybody told you EXACTLY the same thing, ohhh about 200 posts ago.

But, you did not listen.......

That's not new....

Clk&Slk

Ok Vadim, I'm listening now. So tell me.........what the #%$%%^ happen with the CLS 55 with Kleemann K4 ?

AMGSC

Even though HPS made significant improvements on my car, I was still not satisfied because it did not hit the minimum of 413.26rwhp SAE from the first post-install dyno not to mention the 440-450rwhp I expected after all the mods regardless of why (i.e. downshifting problem,etc...).

So I started asking more questions about other boosted cars making over 400+rwhp and got some answers which might irritate some folks here. I cannot confirm nor deny such reports but I'm sure we'll find out on Dyno day -April 15th. Now I'm hearing that there's an abundance of other MBZ boosted cars from other brands that have tuning issues. In fact this person who owns a tuning shop says he has 3 "other branded" SC'd MB cars in his shop now that are making less HP than my car. He said they made 370 and 380rwhp on a 5.5 motor. He thinks that unless a car makes 10-12lbs psi boost on the SC then no car will make over 400rwhp unless they have the software to lock the tranny in 3rd gear which only companies like Kleemann use at their dyno shops only.

If what he says is true then I would be VERY SURPRISED if any SC'd benz pulls over 420rwhp at HoP on April 15th's Dyno Day. Please don't put 100+ octane gas and play fair everyone.

BTW - Kleeman uses STD which is about 11rwhp higher than the correct SAE standard based on what I heard and read. Am I off base and why? If I use the STD correction factor my rwhp read over 406. Which is the correct standard to use??

Thericker

Well said
This really has turned into 1 Mother of a thread!!

Vadim-SoCal

What on earth are talking about??????????

This thread is about FALSE claims by HPS, in case you were not paying attention.

Vadim-SoCal

All of the Kleemann installs that were done at evosport put down between 420 and 400 SAE RWHP on 55s. I can personally attest to it.

Trying to make other tuner look bad while not delivering on one's own promises is HPSs "modes operandi".