Renntech ECU vs VP Veloce ECU

[TimsSL65]

IngenereAMG, I'm currently in the market for an ecu upgrade for my SL600. I am trying to understand the difference between VP Veloce's $2200 upgrade and Renntech's $6400 upgrade. VP's website claims a HP gain "up to 620" while Renntech claims a gain "to 625 HP" (the difference is negligible). Is this a true apples to apples comparison with both HP gains based on a stock engine with 91 octane fuel? Also, Renntech states that their package includes a "trans upgrade". Do you offer the "trans upgrade" (if so, at what cost), and how important is it? Is Renntech providing more/better performance, or just charging a lot more money (nearly 3 times the price)? Anyone who has had personal experience with these products, please jump in. Thanks for your help! Tim

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[IngenereAMG]

Tim:

I can't speak for Renntech's products, and I am sure that they put out a good product. They haven't been around a long time for nothing.

I can only speak to what we do. But one of the driving forces behind my developing Veloce Performance was finding real performance solutions for real drivers.....at fair prices. I knew that I liked the products that we were developing for my own cars as well as my friends........and based on the feedback that I get from our new friends (clients), they like it as well. Ours is based on a stock engine on 91 Octane.

If you go to our testimonials page, there is one from a client with a CL600 that came to us because of the price, and left a believer. We have since done his Lotus, Ferrari and another Merc.

I know that our clients are happy, and if they want something a little more or different, because we are small, we can make it happen. I guess you could say we are a boutique for enthusiasts. I try to make sure that our clients are treated the way I would want to be treated. I have been a customer for these cars for a long time and I think I have an idea what we want, as well as how we want to be treated.

We can do the TCU as well, but I have some general feelings about that...so ask me directly.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[TimsSL65]

Thanks for the response!

Tim

[AMGSC]

Originally Posted by IngenereAMG

Tim:

We can do the TCU as well, but I have some general feelings about that...so ask me directly.

So what are the negatives about upgrading the TCU? If you can convince me that your ECU/TCU can gain 50+rwhp then I've got my wallet open and ready to pay. BUT I definitely will post PRE and POST dyno results at the same place, same dynoject. Are you up to the challenge? I see that you have alot of doubters here on the SL and E boards so here's your chance to prove them wrong.

After reading every post about ECU/TCU upgrades via search. I noticed that I HAVE NOT seen a single PROOF of a 40-50hp gain on a PRE and POST DYNO. I am having my SpeedInnovation software overwritten by either Powerchip, Renntech, Veloce, Evotech, GIAC or whoever else I finally decide upon but will be Physically present to witness the before and after dynos which I will post. I will even video record the entire process. Good or Bad I will post it for all to see. I will settle this debate once and and for all. Honestly I don't believe a single dyno post unless I physically see it with my own two eyes on the same dyno, , same place, same weather conditiions.

[J.Seven]

Originally Posted by IngenereAMG

We can do the TCU as well, but I have some general feelings about that...so ask me directly.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

What don´t you share with us your "feelings" about the TCU upgade? Would like to know what you have to say about it.

J.Seven

[IngenereAMG]

Originally Posted by AMGSC

So what are the negatives about upgrading the TCU? If you can convince me that your ECU/TCU can gain 50+rwhp then I've got my wallet open and ready to pay. BUT I definitely will post PRE and POST dyno results at the same place, same dynoject. Are you up to the challenge? I see that you have alot of doubters here on the SL and E boards so here's your chance to prove them wrong.

After reading every post about ECU/TCU upgrades via search. I noticed that I HAVE NOT seen a single PROOF of a 40-50hp gain on a PRE and POST DYNO. I am having my SpeedInnovation software overwritten by either Powerchip, Renntech, Veloce, Evotech, GIAC or whoever else I finally decide upon but will be Physically present to witness the before and after dynos which I will post. I will even video record the entire process. Good or Bad I will post it for all to see. I will settle this debate once and and for all. Honestly I don't believe a single dyno post unless I physically see it with my own two eyes on the same dyno, , same place, same weather conditiions.

I definitely had some feelings about doing the TCU on every car. I really didn't think it was necessary. I still feel that way with the 55K cars, but I am now leaning towards doing the TCU on 600 and 65 cars more regularly, because of the torque we are getting. I drive my car in manual, and I haven't seen a need for changing the gearbox programming, but as we grow as a company, I can see the advantages for certain drivers.

I am about choices and giving the best value in performance upgrades.

I am open to doing dynos with you. Can you PM me with your car, as well as details.

As far as the doubters go, I am really not troubled by them......I know what we are achieving from a driving experience standpoint. If they don't want to try our work, it is their loss. So far there hasn't been one 55K client that has gotten in their car, and not been extremely satisfied....THAT is what I want to make happen. Numbers and lines on a piece of paper are great, and its nice to see them and if that's what some people are in to, that is fine. I am first and foremost a driver. I am all about improving the driving experience. I have always been that way, since I tweaked my cars back in HS. I develop the driving characteristics of these setups myself, through my engineers. I know the way I want the cars to perform. I want the power band broad. I want the torque to be there when I am apexing a corner. I want no speed limiters. I want to improve the on road driving experience. To me, that is what it is about. If that is what you want, then we are your company...because we will work with the client to achieve the best experience possible.

I have heard critics from everything about my being a physician, to my use of shop space......all from people who have no experience with our products and services, or have a vested interest in slamming a competitor.......but the people who are using our work are very happy with the way their cars are performing. And the few cars that haven't been perfect, we have spent the time to dial it in for the client, until they are happy with the driving experience.

[Jrocket]

Originally Posted by IngenereAMG

I knew that I liked the products that we were developing for my own cars as well as my friends

Can you give us some more details on the "We" part of your team?

[RoydRage]

Originally Posted by AMGSC

So what are the negatives about upgrading the TCU? If you can convince me that your ECU/TCU can gain 50+rwhp then I've got my wallet open and ready to pay. BUT I definitely will post PRE and POST dyno results at the same place, same dynoject. Are you up to the challenge? I see that you have alot of doubters here on the SL and E boards so here's your chance to prove them wrong.

After reading every post about ECU/TCU upgrades via search. I noticed that I HAVE NOT seen a single PROOF of a 40-50hp gain on a PRE and POST DYNO. I am having my SpeedInnovation software overwritten by either Powerchip, Renntech, Veloce, Evotech, GIAC or whoever else I finally decide upon but will be Physically present to witness the before and after dynos which I will post. I will even video record the entire process. Good or Bad I will post it for all to see. I will settle this debate once and and for all. Honestly I don't believe a single dyno post unless I physically see it with my own two eyes on the same dyno, , same place, same weather conditiions.

BRAVO!

And will your car be reliable... You can only push parameters so much without sacrificing reliablility... RennTech claims 10 hp on a ECU tune alone for a stock 55k motor... He claims 40-50hp ?!? You think Oliver doesn't know what he's doing? he would give up to 40hp away? Why wouldn't RennTech Claim more, it's hard to prove. This will help very much... You see he's already leaning towards the "Driving Expierience" rather than lines on a piece of paper... LOL!

Thanks for your efforts, just make sure your motor is safe.

Best,

RoydRage

[erdocslx2]

I am not debating performance again. I will tell you I have had no issues. My car has had its service since the ecu tune with no issues of detection of the new programming. My car is a daily driver, and i drive it pretty hard. I use only 93 octane and have been getting 17.2mpg. Most of my daily driving is highway driving.

[BiTurboAmg]

Originally Posted by RoydRage

You think Oliver doesn't know what he's doing?

Thats exactly what I think and have seen first hand. You are putting to much faith in a brand name. As for the guy with the sl600 go veloce or go kleemann I think you will be happy either way.

[AMGSC]

Originally Posted by RoydRage

BRAVO!

And will your car be reliable... You can only push parameters so much without sacrificing reliablility... RennTech claims 10 hp on a ECU tune alone for a stock 55k motor... He claims 40-50hp ?!? You think Oliver doesn't know what he's doing? he would give up to 40hp away? Why wouldn't RennTech Claim more, it's hard to prove. This will help very much... You see he's already leaning towards the "Driving Expierience" rather than lines on a piece of paper... LOL!

Thanks for your efforts, just make sure your motor is safe.

Best,

RoydRage

Is this the same Oliver that used to run SpeedTuning USA or is this just a coincidence of names? Does this Oliver CURRENTLY tune/program for Renntech or Evotech??? I am truly confused. Adam at Eurolites told me that Renntech is using a different programmer now and no longer buying their programs from Evotech. I also hear that Powerchip does not write their own software but instead buys exclusively from Superchips. Is all this true. Does any name tuner (Renntech, Powerchip, Kleemann) write their own code???

[rbtronnie5]

different oliver's...and yes i believe you are correct on the fact that renntech now uses a different programmer...at least from what i have been told.

[StealthAuto]

Originally Posted by AMGSC

Is this the same Oliver that used to run SpeedTuning USA or is this just a coincidence of names? Does this Oliver CURRENTLY tune/program for Renntech or Evotech??? I am truly confused. Adam at Eurolites told me that Renntech is using a different programmer now and no longer buying their programs from Evotech. I also hear that Powerchip does not write their own software but instead buys exclusively from Superchips. Is all this true. Does any name tuner (Renntech, Powerchip, Kleemann) write their own code???

The above mention about Powerchip not writing their own tunes is not correct in any way. I worked for Powerchip for a couple years and I've personally been present for testing/tuning of about 20 vehicles including Ferrari 360's, CL65's, Lambo's, etc. so I'm positive they write their own tunes. I was present for many of the dyno sessions and was in car monitoring air/fuel ratios and boost during on-road development. Lastly, I'm good friends with 3 of Powerchip's tuners so I know they exist.

I can only speak for Powerchip as that's the only company I've had experience with.

-Aaron