65 ECU UPGRADE- BE AWARE OF FEDOR DEZYN (VADIM)...

[Busa196]

This is a long story, so I'll try and keep it as simple as possible. I drive an '06 S65 and spent several months on here doing research and talking to people before choosing a tuner to upgrade my ECU. Kleemann was my first choice....they were the cheapest, offered a very short turn around and Cory was extremely knowledgeable and patient with my questions. I sent off the ECU and received it back within 2 days just as they promised. After several dyno pulls and a trip to the local strip, it turns out the upgrade actually made slightly less power and yielded a slower ET. Not much- maybe 10-15hp and a couple of tenths. I called Cory and explained the issue.....he assured me it was no problem and to send it back and they would get it right the second time. So off it goes again to Colorado. A second try brought me back to stock numbers .....~525-530rwhp and 11.60-11.70 ET's @ 120ish. I actually lost a few mph. I called Cory again and explained that I wasn't happy with the results and asked for a refund, which he gladly agreed to. My money was refunded within a day and he flashed it back to stock for free. Let me be clear here, I have "0" issues with Kleemann. They were great to deal with, I just wish their program would have worked. I wasn't ready to give up yet and called Vadim after hearing about him on this forum. I explicitly explained to him the situation with Kleemann and asked him if he could do anything better?? Can you actually get the ECU upgrade to work?? What are you going to do differently? What can I expect?? etc.... So, after a long conversation with Vadim I sent off my ECU for a 4th time. The programing took almost a week and at this stage I've just about had it with this entire process. I get it back and guess what?? Same thing. My car goes mid-high 11's and traps 120-121 with absolutely zero change in performance and it dynoed 525rwhp. For the record, my car bone stock dynoed 530rwhp and ran consistent 11.6x's at 121-122 (on DR's). It went 11.5x's on several occassions and trapped as high as 123. So, I call Vadim from the track and give him the scoop- he's baffled, I'm baffled....what now? I get home and we chat some more.....suddenly it seems as if he has the answer..."oh, you were in dyno mode when running it??......that's a totally different map than the normal street mode." This sounded strange to me as I've always dragged my car in dyno mode, but he's the expert, not me. Then he also tells me to leave my car in "normal" mode while in the dyno- which I didn't think would work either because of the t/c system. But, at this point I'll try anything. So, I head to the track again, and the dyno again....and it's the same story....identical results from the previous visits. And as I thought, you can't dyno the car in normal street mode. I felt a bit retarded even tyring, but whatever. After multiple conversations with Vadim and after multiple visits to the track/dyno on my days off (both are over an hour from my house) I called Vadim and explained that I had done everything he had asked me to. I even went as far as to buy a Scantron and monitored my intake temps to make sure the I/C pump wasn't bad. I tried dyno mode, street mode, tried the same dyno 3 times and the same track twice......the end result is again, zero. I tell Vadim that I'm done being a test car and that I'm done sending off my ECU in "hopes" of him getting it right.....and he really couldn't tell me what they were going to do differently a second time. I ask for a refund and for a stock ECU flash....which he gladly agreed to. He asked me to send the ECU to him and he'd re-flash it and then refund my CC. So off it goes. I was told it would take 2 days....on day 4 I called Vadim to get an update......he proceeds to tell me that my ECU "should be" in the mail with a "new" program in it.....but he would have to call Powerchip to find out. I asked about our agreement???....the refund and the stock re-flash???....and explained that I absolutely, positively, did NOT want another modified tune in my ECU. I wanted what he promised me....a refund and a stock ECU. Suddenly he tells me, and I quote, "I don't have any money.....I don't have enough money to give you a refund.....I don't have $2,500!! Sorry! Powerchip won't give me a refund, so I can't give you one." I explained to him that's between you and Powerchip, but someone's going to give me back my $2500. He basically went quiet and ignored my calls the next few days. I sent him a very cordial email requesting a refund.....he passes the buck and basically refers me to Powerchip. Vadim completely went back on his word and did not honor what he said he would. I wasn't asking for a lot, just what I paid for- that's it. When the track and the dyno didn't net one single ounce of an improvement over stock numbers I asked for a refund. He continually pushed all the issues to Powerchip and basically accepted no responsibility for a product that HE, as an employee of VRP sold me. I didn't send Powerchip $2500, I didn't mail my ECU to Powechip, I didn't spend hours on the phone with Powerchip, I wasn't convinced that this ECU upgrade would work by Powerchip.....but by Vadim at VRP. It was a complete disaster.....I won't get into the business trip I missed due to Vadim taking 6 days to send me my ECU back, the hundreds of dollars spent on dyno pulls, over-night shipping, and a rental car......or the hours of of my time spent at track or in a dyno room. I just wanted you guys to know my experience. I'm sure plenty here have had a good experience with him.....but this is MY story and my personal experience. Before you yank out your ECU and send it off to anyone, do yourself a favor and do before/after comparisons on the same dyno and the same track. These online testimonies to "wow, it feels so much better".. and..."I can totally feel a difference" ........really?? Don't be so sure. You'd be surprised at what you "want" to feel after cutting a $2500 check. And, make sure that your tuner has a cash reserve of $2500 so he can actually give you a refund after he tells you he will. End result- I had to have Amex go after Vadim for my money.....and he had no response to them either. Apparently, it's difficult to simply pay for a service and expect to get what you paid for. Be careful who you deal with guys. If there's ever a tuner that can mod my ECU, put my car on a dyno and show me the ~40-60rwhp and 100+ft lbs of torque increase I'd buy it tomorrow. But, I'm 0 for 2 as of now. I've been told by several that RennTech is the only way to go?? -Busa196-

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[carcommander]

As usual there is always alot of BS around tuning and the gains exspected. Thanks for posting your experience. I have been tempted to tune my SL65. I am glad I resisted the temptation.

[absent]

Originally Posted by carcommander

As usual there is always alot of BS around tuning and the gains exspected. Thanks for posting your experience. I have been tempted to tune my SL65. I am glad I resisted the temptation.

All tuners exaggerate their figures.
I used Renntech and Kleemann on my cars,had more problems with the latter (LSD,weak ECU).
Renntech always gave me some gains but never as promised.

[320 dreamer]

give eurocharged a call. maybe they can help. they have done wonders on the ecu for the 32 and 55 cars

[france2112]

Wow!!!!! Sorry to hear of your lousy experience!! What a waste of time and money. If what you say is true, then "FEDOR DEZYN (VADIM)" is a real disappointment. I don't have anything against Vadim personally, but I stopped dealing with him along time ago. Too many promises of upgrades that "will be done in the next few week" that never happened. I just gave up on him.

With regard to the Kleemann tune, there is a forum member that I am friends with who has a Kleemann tuned CL65 that did not net the predicted gains. He sent back the ECU a few times for remapping and finally got it close to what was expected but he is still not thrilled IMO.

RENNtech is the Gold standard for AMG tuning performance. There is no question that they are more expensive then other companies but your car does not become a Guinea Pig either. Of course they have their critics also, but IMO they are the most reliable. I have had my car for two years and did not upgrade the ECU with RENNtech because of the price but I refuse to trust anyone else with my car so I kept it stock. I plan to bite the bullet shortly and at least do the RENNtech ECU upgrade and I say you should give them a try. They have a new devise called the RENNtech Auto Tuner (R.A.T.) so you never have to take your ECU out and send it to them. They send you the devise that connects to your OBD II port and you flash your ECU to either a stock tune (if you need to go to the dealer) or modified for track/street use at your will. It is an awesome idea. Check out their website: www.renntechmercedes.com It is advertised on the home page.

Also, check out post #24 of this thread:
RENNtech vs Kleeman

These gains are pretty sweet and hard to beat. Good luck with whatever you decide and sorry for all your hassle.

Larry

[mig1980]

It is disappointing to here about Vadim given that I was about to pull the trigger and send my ecu to him. After reading this I will never do business with him. I have had issues in the past with poor customer service with small companies and I am very weiry and stay away from situations like this. I just hope you got your money back busa196!

[MJ50]

busa196,
when did this happen? this month? last month?
anyways, u r not the 1st person...

[MB_Forever]

This maybe seem like a silly question, but is it possible that your car is already tuned? Did you buy it new or used?

530 rwhp is about 647 hp which is very high for a stock car? 40 hp too high

Have you tried to changing your IC pump just in case.... sometimes the pumps fail gradually, it's not simply on and off thing.... I'm just throwing suggestions here because these seems very VERY strange

[nlpamg]

I'm not trying to stir the flames, but FYI, Fedor Dezyn is in the same building as Powerchip...

Originally Posted by MJ50

busa196,
when did this happen? this month? last month?
anyways, u r not the 1st person...

sounds like a similar story to yours:
Please read if you plan to tune your ECU by another tuner

[150shot]

thanks for posting and good luck.

I have heard also that Brabus is a good place to go for ECU.

[bassn_07]

Out of curiosity, how long did you have your tune before asking for a full refund? I believe PC's policy is a 14 day money back guarantee.

[Timeless]

I am sorry to hear this happen to you, but am glad you came forth and let everyone know your experience. My Powerchip tune did yield the expected numbers for a 55 engine and my ECU was sent directly to them even though I went through a distributor (StealthAuto).

With him in the same building as Powerchips, it makes sense you shipped it to him.

Again, thanks for sharing. Stories like these are what keep me from going further in my tuning (Pulley, Headers, TB, etc)...that and really no competition around here.

[Jen_Kenne]

Caveat emptor.

Thank you for posting this story as a warning to all of us.

Originally Posted by Busa196

This is a long story, so I'll try and keep it as simple as possible. I drive an '06 S65 and spent several months on here doing research and talking to people before choosing a tuner to upgrade my ECU.

Kleemann was my first choice....they were the cheapest, offered a very short turn around and Cory was extremely knowledgeable and patient with my questions. I sent off the ECU and received it back within 2 days just as they promised. After several dyno pulls and a trip to the local strip, it turns out the upgrade actually made slightly less power and yielded a slower ET. Not much- maybe 10-15hp and a couple of tenths. I called Cory and explained the issue.....he assured me it was no problem and to send it back and they would get it right the second time. So off it goes again to Colorado. A second try brought me back to stock numbers .....~525-530rwhp and 11.60-11.70 ET's @ 120ish. I actually lost a few mph. I called Cory again and explained that I wasn't happy with the results and asked for a refund, which he gladly agreed to. My money was refunded within a day and he flashed it back to stock for free. Let me be clear here, I have "0" issues with Kleemann. They were great to deal with, I just wish their program would have worked.

I wasn't ready to give up yet and called Vadim after hearing about him on this forum. I explicitly explained to him the situation with Kleemann and asked him if he could do anything better?? Can you actually get the ECU upgrade to work?? What are you going to do differently? What can I expect?? etc.... So, after a long conversation with Vadim I sent off my ECU for a 4th time. The programing took almost a week and at this stage I've just about had it with this entire process. I get it back and guess what?? Same thing. My car goes mid-high 11's and traps 120-121 with absolutely zero change in performance and it dynoed 525rwhp. For the record, my car bone stock dynoed 530rwhp and ran consistent 11.6x's at 121-122 (on DR's). It went 11.5x's on several occassions and trapped as high as 123.

So, I call Vadim from the track and give him the scoop- he's baffled, I'm baffled....what now? I get home and we chat some more.....suddenly it seems as if he has the answer..."oh, you were in dyno mode when running it??......that's a totally different map than the normal street mode." This sounded strange to me as I've always dragged my car in dyno mode, but he's the expert, not me. Then he also tells me to leave my car in "normal" mode while in the dyno- which I didn't think would work either because of the t/c system. But, at this point I'll try anything. So, I head to the track again, and the dyno again....and it's the same story....identical results from the previous visits. And as I thought, you can't dyno the car in normal street mode. I felt a bit retarded even tyring, but whatever.

After multiple conversations with Vadim and after multiple visits to the track/dyno on my days off (both are over an hour from my house) I called Vadim and explained that I had done everything he had asked me to. I even went as far as to buy a Scantron and monitored my intake temps to make sure the I/C pump wasn't bad. I tried dyno mode, street mode, tried the same dyno 3 times and the same track twice......the end result is again, zero.

I tell Vadim that I'm done being a test car and that I'm done sending off my ECU in "hopes" of him getting it right.....and he really couldn't tell me what they were going to do differently a second time. I ask for a refund and for a stock ECU flash....which he gladly agreed to. He asked me to send the ECU to him and he'd re-flash it and then refund my CC. So off it goes. I was told it would take 2 days....on day 4 I called Vadim to get an update......he proceeds to tell me that my ECU "should be" in the mail with a "new" program in it.....but he would have to call Powerchip to find out. I asked about our agreement???....the refund and the stock re-flash???....and explained that I absolutely, positively, did NOT want another modified tune in my ECU. I wanted what he promised me....a refund and a stock ECU. Suddenly he tells me, and I quote, "I don't have any money.....I don't have enough money to give you a refund.....I don't have $2,500!! Sorry! Powerchip won't give me a refund, so I can't give you one." I explained to him that's between you and Powerchip, but someone's going to give me back my $2500. He basically went quiet and ignored my calls the next few days. I sent him a very cordial email requesting a refund.....he passes the buck and basically refers me to Powerchip. Vadim completely went back on his word and did not honor what he said he would. I wasn't asking for a lot, just what I paid for- that's it. When the track and the dyno didn't net one single ounce of an improvement over stock numbers I asked for a refund. He continually pushed all the issues to Powerchip and basically accepted no responsibility for a product that HE, as an employee of VRP sold me. I didn't send Powerchip $2500, I didn't mail my ECU to Powechip, I didn't spend hours on the phone with Powerchip, I wasn't convinced that this ECU upgrade would work by Powerchip.....but by Vadim at VRP.

It was a complete disaster.....I won't get into the business trip I missed due to Vadim taking 6 days to send me my ECU back, the hundreds of dollars spent on dyno pulls, over-night shipping, and a rental car......or the hours of of my time spent at track or in a dyno room.

I just wanted you guys to know my experience. I'm sure plenty here have had a good experience with him.....but this is MY story and my personal experience. Before you yank out your ECU and send it off to anyone, do yourself a favor and do before/after comparisons on the same dyno and the same track. These online testimonies to "wow, it feels so much better".. and..."I can totally feel a difference" ........really?? Don't be so sure. You'd be surprised at what you "want" to feel after cutting a $2500 check. And, make sure that your tuner has a cash reserve of $2500 so he can actually give you a refund after he tells you he will.

End result- I had to have Amex go after Vadim for my money.....and he had no response to them either. Apparently, it's difficult to simply pay for a service and expect to get what you paid for. Be careful who you deal with guys.

If there's ever a tuner that can mod my ECU, put my car on a dyno and show me the ~40-60rwhp and 100+ft lbs of torque increase I'd buy it tomorrow. But, I'm 0 for 2 as of now. I've been told by several that RennTech is the only way to go??

-Busa196-

[MJ50]

Originally Posted by bassn_07

I believe PC's policy is a 14 day money back guarantee.

guarantee with some "exclusions"...

[Sunir]

Tuning market seems to be a gray area in the MB perfromance aftermarket...guess we'll have to wait and see what happens with the tuners out there in terms of reliability and performance/gains.

[rsr911]

I have said it before and I will say it again. AMG spent millions of dollars and thousands of hours developing our cars. They did not leave much on the table.

I was at the AMG owners gathering in Atlanta in 06 at the dyno day. Kleeman CLS55 put down the same numbers as a bone stock E55. The Kleeman pkg was $17,000.00. Not good return on investment in my book!

[jmf003]

Originally Posted by rsr911

I have said it before and I will say it again. AMG spent millions of dollars and thousands of hours developing our cars. They did not leave much on the table.

I was at the AMG owners gathering in Atlanta in 06 at the dyno day. Kleeman CLS55 put down the same numbers as a bone stock E55. The Kleeman pkg was $17,000.00. Not good return on investment in my book!

You may be right, of course, but I think it's more fair to say that tuning is a complicated process in which lots of things can go wrong.

With the slow CLS55 in 2006, that happens to coincide time-wise with the MB air pump recall & ECU reflash that slowed down a lot of previously tuned 55K cars. It took some effort for the tuners to figure out how to work around the MB-imposed constraint but eventually they did, e.g. Power's Back! Cory Kudo's. There's now a pretty significant performance gap between highly tuned and stock 55K engines, not that the stock engines are weak by any means.

With the 65TT engines, the tuners seem to be struggling a bit although forum member Marcus may have hit paydirt: http://www.mbworld.org/forums/3670442-post53.html.

[TMC M5]

Originally Posted by rsr911

I have said it before and I will say it again. AMG spent millions of dollars and thousands of hours developing our cars. They did not leave much on the table.

I was at the AMG owners gathering in Atlanta in 06 at the dyno day. Kleeman CLS55 put down the same numbers as a bone stock E55. The Kleeman pkg was $17,000.00. Not good return on investment in my book!

That is a complete fallacy. AMG is under the same constraints imposed by MB that every other car manufacturer is under. They need to develop cars/engines that can be reliable given a wide range of environmental conditions and gas available. It isn't cost effective to tailor cars/engines to specific markets, so they will develop universal applications with cost as a key component of their decision making. Because of these compromises, there is definitely something left on the table. The problem is that MB is notorious for making it very difficult for tuners to crack its code, particularly on the V12TT.

As jmf003 mentioned, compare tuned 55K's performance at the track to stock vehicles. There is a world of difference in their performance.

Tom

[Jen_Kenne]

Originally Posted by TMC M5

That is a complete fallacy. AMG is under the same constraints imposed by MB that every other car manufacturer is under. They need to develop cars/engines that can be reliable given a wide range of environmental conditions and gas available. It isn't cost effective to tailor cars/engines to specific markets, so they will develop universal applications with cost as a key component of their decision making. Because of these compromises, there is definitely something left on the table. The problem is that MB is notorious for making it very difficult for tuners to crack its code, particularly on the V12TT.

As jmf003 mentioned, compare tuned 55K's performance at the track to stock vehicles. There is a world of difference in their performance.

Tom

If Tom is correct, then AMG is simply another manufacturer that produces MOR cars. Perhaps the time when AMG was unique has passed?

[GFEAR]

The factory is always going to tune them down some, for a few reasons.
1. warranty, if the motor is capable of making 600 hp, and they tune it down to 525. they will have a very decreased warranty claim,, we all know an engine makes the most power just before it blows up, they make just enough hp to get what they need but still be as reliable as possible. "tuning" the cars gets back some of the hp lost.

2. they need to work world wide. the same car goes here ( florida) and denver and los angesles. we have 93 octane here, cali doesnt, we can ru nmore boost and timing safely than they can. and denver the altitude is a real problem. the cars have to be able to function everywhere they are sold. and they do that in the tune.

there isnt a car on the road you cant get more hp from with a tune.

[Jen_Kenne]

Originally Posted by GFEAR

The factory is always going to tune them down some, for a few reasons.
1. warranty, if the motor is capable of making 600 hp, and they tune it down to 525. they will have a very decreased warranty claim,, we all know an engine makes the most power just before it blows up, they make just enough hp to get what they need but still be as reliable as possible. "tuning" the cars gets back some of the hp lost.

2. they need to work world wide. the same car goes here ( florida) and denver and los angesles. we have 93 octane here, cali doesnt, we can ru nmore boost and timing safely than they can. and denver the altitude is a real problem. the cars have to be able to function everywhere they are sold. and they do that in the tune.

there isnt a car on the road you cant get more hp from with a tune.

Then AMG is simply a MBZ product line of MOR cars. Perhaps the time when AMG was unique has passed?

[GFEAR]

Originally Posted by Jen_Kenne

Then AMG is simply a MBZ product line of MOR cars. Perhaps the time when AMG was unique has passed?

IT DIDNT MAKE SENSE THE FIRST TIME YOU POSTED IT......

[Jen_Kenne]

Originally Posted by GFEAR

IT DIDNT MAKE SENSE THE FIRST TIME YOU POSTED IT.

I'm glad you understood it the second time.

[TMC M5]

Originally Posted by Jen_Kenne

Then AMG is simply a MBZ product line of MOR cars. Perhaps the time when AMG was unique has passed?

"Unique" is a relative term. Does AMG offer certain performance options that are not offered on MB's regular line of cars...yes. Do regular MB products offer AMG sport packages, wheels...etc....yes. Does BMW's M division do the same...yes.

There is only one car offered by MB that is a stand alone model and not a derivative of a "lower" model/platform. That MB product isn't even an AMG...it is the SLR. If you think about it, very few car manufacturers make a stand alone model anymore. Ferrari's are pretty much alone in this, along with the Lamborghini Murcielago (The Gallardo shares way too much with its VAG R8 cousin). In my book, that makes them truly "unique".

Tom

[Jen_Kenne]

Originally Posted by TMC M5

"Unique" is a relative term. Does AMG offer certain performance options that are not offered on MB's regular line of cars...yes. Do regular MB products offer AMG sport packages, wheels...etc....yes. Does BMW's M division do the same...yes.

There is only one car offered by MB that is a stand alone model and not a derivative of a "lower" model/platform. That MB product isn't even an AMG...it is the SLR. If you think about it, very few car manufacturers make a stand alone model anymore. Ferrari's are pretty much alone in this, along with the Lamborghini Murcielago (The Gallardo shares way too much with its VAG R8 cousin). In my book, that makes them truly "unique".

Tom

Tom,

I think you just put it in the 10-ring. Very thoughtful and correct.