How to Mod an SL65 Black Series?

[TheCreditMan]

How difficult is it to add modest H.P. to this car? Is it, or will it be, a "bolt on" procedure? I don't want the car in a shop for months and months. BTW, love the color black in the B.S. This car is growing on me!

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[LZH]

I would think with the bigger turbos it would be very easy to get plenty of gains with just a tune. Why bother though, the car already has plenty of power and has trouble putting it to the ground from a dig.

[TMC M5]

Luke:

I respectfully disagree. The shame of the SL65 BS is that it has 57hp more but torque is limited to the 738lb-ft output of every other 65. I would imagine that the lighter weight (and differential cooler) of the SL65 BS could allow a little more power to safely make its way to the wheels. I say tune it to release some more power (you wouldn't need to go crazy).

My biggest criticism is why if it was a "track car" did they throw 19" wheel/tires on the front and 20" wheel/tires on the back. The rear could useh some 19"'s for less weight (rotational mass).

Tom

[LZH]

No prob, Tom...but I think we said the same thing didn't we ?....just a tune is all that is necessary. And all the initial reviews of this car have been that the CLK BS is more track oriented than the SL BS. Plus, the dif coolers look to be a total afterthought and are mounted in a way that they will be collecting LOTS of debris from the front tires. I think VRP has figured out how to unlease all the torque from these 65's with just a tune as well:

*** VRP 55/65 TCUs ***

[TMC M5]

Originally Posted by LZH

No prob, Tom...but I think we said the same thing didn't we ?....just a tune is all that is necessary. And all the initial reviews of this car have been that the CLK BS is more track oriented than the SL BS. Plus, the dif coolers look to be a total afterthought and are mounted in a way that they will be collecting LOTS of debris from the front tires. I think VRP has figured out how to unlease all the torque from these 65's with just a tune as well:

*** VRP 55/65 TCUs ***

Luke:

I thought you said "why bother" with the tune. It is all good.

Tom

[LZH]

Originally Posted by TMC M5

Luke:

I thought you said "why bother" with the tune. It is all good.

Tom

Just trying to help out the OP with his question and provide useful info (VRP link) to get around the factory torque limiting software you mentioned - again, all of which can be accomplished with a TUNE which I originally said. As stated by many who have already driven the car, it is VERY traction limited in stock form...hence the "why bother" comment. Perhaps I need to dumb down my comments and qualify everything I say just for you, Tom ? Or, maybe you should stop trying to poke holes in every single statement I make.

[jrcart]

ECU tune, titanium exhaust, cat delete, 19" Dymags all the way around (Tom is 100%correct about 20" rears being not optimum for performance), carbon fiber drive shaft and most likely some additional cooling mods will be needed.

[TheCreditMan]

Originally Posted by jrcart

ECU tune, titanium exhaust, cat delete, 19" Dymags all the way around (Tom is 100%correct about 20" rears being not optimum for performance), carbon fiber drive shaft and most likely some additional cooling mods will be needed.

So who could provide the parts and do this right; and how long would it take? Thank you!

P.S. Luke and Tom, appreciate your insights too! You guys all know what you're talking about.

[TMC M5]

Originally Posted by LZH

Just trying to help out the OP with his question and provide useful info (VRP link) to get around the factory torque limiting software you mentioned - again, all of which can be accomplished with a TUNE which I originally said. As stated by many who have already driven the car, it is VERY traction limited in stock form...hence the "why bother" comment. Perhaps I need to dumb down my comments and qualify everything I say just for you, Tom ? Or, maybe you should stop trying to poke holes in every single statement I make.

Luke:

Geez...I wasn't trying to be a contrarian...and no...I do not try to poke holes in every single statement you make. If it came across that way...I apologize. The problem with the internet is that tone does not come across well. I understand where you are coming from with the traction issues...I thought you recommended not doing a tune. I think a tune is a good idea...you think it is a good idea... let's leave it at that.

Tom

[jrcart]

Originally Posted by TheCreditMan

So who could provide the parts and do this right; and how long would it take? Thank you!

P.S. Luke and Tom, appreciate your insights too! You guys all know what you're talking about.

I plan on making these mods to my SL BS, I did similar, yet more extensive mods to my CLK BS and I had Evosport do all the work. If you plan on being the first "donor" car I would plan on a couple months of down time. My CLK took them about 3.5 months but that included much more extensive work (roll cage, CF front & rear aero package). I am torn if I want to start modding as soon as I get the car or if I should wait until fall, driving season is short in Chicago.

[c32used]

Originally Posted by jrcart

I plan on making these mods to my SL BS, I did similar, yet more extensive mods to my CLK BS and I had Evosport do all the work. If you plan on being the first "donor" car I would plan on a couple months of down time. My CLK took them about 3.5 months but that included much more extensive work (roll cage, CF front & rear aero package). I am torn if I want to start modding as soon as I get the car or if I should wait until fall, driving season is short in Chicago.

Jim its nice to know a local friend is getting this car when you do call me I'll come out to see it...

[Thericker]

Originally Posted by jrcart

I plan on making these mods to my SL BS, I did similar, yet more extensive mods to my CLK BS and I had Evosport do all the work. If you plan on being the first "donor" car I would plan on a couple months of down time. My CLK took them about 3.5 months but that included much more extensive work (roll cage, CF front & rear aero package). I am torn if I want to start modding as soon as I get the car or if I should wait until fall, driving season is short in Chicago.

WoW! when did you get the NEW SL65 Black Series? I thought you canceled your order?

[EcruisinUSA]

In my quest to learn more about the Renntech mods on the E55 I recently purchased, I saw today that they've been tuning the SL65 black edition. I don't know what kind of power to expect from that car but you can ask them for info. And if you ever want to trade cars (any of you SL guys!) I'm interested and will even pay shipping fees! (fat chance!)

[SL65amg]

jrcart is correct.... all the car needs is a few choice well placed upgrades to make it perfect.... carbon wheels, ECU/TCU tune, carbon driveline upgrades, upgraded Limited Slip Differential (won't this help with the terrible wheelspin from a dig?) titanium exhuast.... and I say maybe even put back in the lighter weight carbon seats and carbon door panels from the European version thats not available here in the U.S.... plus maybe upgraded brakes (some magazines have said that the brakes are not as good as a 300k supercar like this should have), and maybe even some lighter weight springs/shocks.... then finish it it off with a full body paint protection system with clear bra on all the right spots plus K40 radar/laser system.... done. Some might even go in and take out even more weight in certain areas if possible ... this car will make such a great project car for a wealthy person that really has passion for it....

P.S - doesn't the U.S. version of the 65 Black Series still weigh like 4,250 lbs? And with the upgrades I mentioned might that get pretty close to 4,000 even? Whats the potential here? And did anyone else see the 30 - 50 MPH and 50 - 70 MPH times for the stock 65 BS? Its so fast in those gear times that it made even the Lambo LP640 and 599 GTB and Viper and ZR1 seem slow by comparison....

[SL65amg]

Since Renntech is already hard at work trying out the best ways to get more power out of the 65 Black Series... what do you guys think they will end up with? Its already producing incredible amounts of torque on just the preliminary testing with the ECU, correct? They just started, so do youthink they might get to up over 1,000 lb/ft? 1,100 lb/ft? And supposedly a larger intercooler and heavy duty limited slip differential is needed too ofcourse.....

Wow, this with a lightweight titanium exhaust, Dymag wheels, carbon brakes, carbon seats.... and the LSD.... Pulling several car lengths on a 430 Scuderia or GT2 or 599 GTB or Enzo should be no problem then right? Once the all-new SL comes out in 2012.. the Black Series cars will probably experience another huge dip in the prices.... by then I bet some of you will find one for well under $100,000..... it should make for a perfect project car for some of you guys..... just too cool....

http://renntechnews.blogspot.com/

[TMC M5]

Originally Posted by SL65amg

Since Renntech is already hard at work trying out the best ways to get more power out of the 65 Black Series... what do you guys think they will end up with? Its already producing incredible amounts of torque on just the preliminary testing with the ECU, correct? They just started, so do youthink they might get to up over 1,000 lb/ft? 1,100 lb/ft? And supposedly a larger intercooler and heavy duty limited slip differential is needed too ofcourse.....

Wow, this with a lightweight titanium exhaust, Dymag wheels, carbon brakes, carbon seats.... and the LSD.... Pulling several car lengths on a 430 Scuderia or GT2 or 599 GTB or Enzo should be no problem then right? Once the all-new SL comes out in 2012.. the Black Series cars will probably experience another huge dip in the prices.... by then I bet some of you will find one for well under $100,000..... it should make for a perfect project car for some of you guys..... just too cool....

http://renntechnews.blogspot.com/

I think under $100K is way too optimistic by 2012. Look at the CLK63 BS. The cheapest ones for sale are about 54% of their original value 2 1/2 years after their introduction. An SL65 BS will still be in the $150K+ range.

Tom

[Pimp Star]

Originally Posted by TheCreditMan

How difficult is it to add modest H.P. to this car?

http://www.renntechmercedes.com/sl.php

Renntech SL65 Black Series Performance upgrades:

1. Custom ECU/TCU tuning, dual intercooler pump upgrade. 740hp; 920lb-ft

2. 100% Locking limited-slip differential

3. Transmission upgrade

[Akademiks]

Remove rear-exhaust, custom fabricate a "scorpion-like" air intake, ECU'd to run on 100 octane, tcu, ic pump upgrade, vented hood, 19s on rear and call it a day.

I'd say it'd be the fastest Mercedes on the planet. Low 10s would be my guess. High 9s on DRs.

[TMC M5]

Originally Posted by Akademiks

Remove rear-exhaust, custom fabricate a "scorpion-like" air intake, ECU'd to run on 100 octane, tcu, ic pump upgrade, vented hood, 19s on rear and call it a day.

I'd say it'd be the fastest Mercedes on the planet. Low 10s would be my guess. High 9s on DRs.

I think 9s times are a little optimistic. The SL65 BS still weighs 4,250+lbs. It is probably a 10s car with just drag radials. Picking up an additional 1s is a tall order. Especially since it already has a special intake system that is tucked away from the heat of the engine bay. The Scorpion intake may not make much of a difference. I think ultimately it would run 10.2s but getting under 10s is a tall order that would need some major advancements in TCU programming (which we haven't seen in action yet).

Tom

[Akademiks]

Originally Posted by TMC M5

I think 9s times are a little optimistic. The SL65 BS still weighs 4,250+lbs. It is probably a 10s car with just drag radials. Picking up an additional 1s is a tall order. Especially since it already has a special intake system that is tucked away from the heat of the engine bay. The Scorpion intake may not make much of a difference. I think ultimately it would run 10.2s but getting under 10s is a tall order that would need some major advancements in TCU programming (which we haven't seen in action yet).

Tom

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Tom. A ECU/TCU alone should bring the car into mid to high 10s on street tires alone, on drags into the low to mid 10s. Once you add in IC Res, intakes, and a free-flowing exhaust, I think 9s would be within reach-- especially on 100 octane fuel. I say this because there are already documented stock 65s, on DRs running low 11s. And we have a few running 10s off of ECU/TCU combos. The 65 Black, with less weight, and more power... well, I could see it running single digits.

[TMC M5]

Originally Posted by Akademiks

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Tom. A ECU/TCU alone should bring the car into mid to high 10s on street tires alone, on drags into the low to mid 10s. Once you add in IC Res, intakes, and a free-flowing exhaust, I think 9s would be within reach-- especially on 100 octane fuel. I say this because there are already documented stock 65s, on DRs running low 11s. And we have a few running 10s off of ECU/TCU combos. The 65 Black, with less weight, and more power... well, I could see it running single digits.

The problem is the TCU tuning. Look at Marko's car. He can't get the power down during the entire run because the tranny's software is pulling power every upshift. He should be running 10.5s or better. The SL65 BS is capable of making more power than Marko's car, but it too will be limited by the TCU software. Until someone can make an advancement in TCU...the SL65 BS will be limited by the same problems.

Tom

[Akademiks]

Originally Posted by TMC M5

The problem is the TCU tuning. Look at Marko's car. He can't get the power down during the entire run because the tranny's software is pulling power every upshift. He should be running 10.5s or better. The SL65 BS is capable of making more power than Marko's car, but it too will be limited by the TCU software. Until someone can make an advancement in TCU...the SL65 BS will be limited by the same problems.

Tom

Ah... shame to be limited by such a stupid problem. Thought Renntech had it all figured out.

[TMC M5]

Originally Posted by Akademiks

Ah... shame to be limited by such a stupid problem. Thought Renntech had it all figured out.

I think they do better job of TCU tuning than anyone else out there. However, a custom 100 octane ECU tune with RENNtech TCU tuning and VRP intercoolers hasn't been tested.

Tom

[E55AMGFan]

Originally Posted by Pimp Star

http://www.renntechmercedes.com/sl.php

Renntech SL65 Black Series Performance upgrades:

1. Custom ECU/TCU tuning, dual intercooler pump upgrade. 740hp; 920lb-ft

2. 100% Locking limited-slip differential

3. Transmission upgrade

Renntech's ECU Tune, stock baseline was the 563.78rwhp and 696.62rwtq, Roughly 690hp and 850ft-lbs STOCK, gotta love how MB understates the power claims on the V12 BiTurbo cars . Tuned went to 630.78rwhp and 765.95rwtq, 770hp and 935ft-lbs. Renntech surely meet/exceeded their claims. Car had the ECU/TCU with dual IC pump along with LSD. It would be nice if they upgraded the tranny as well and tracked it.

[2MANYCARS]

Look at that torque!!! That's some stupid power!