header pipe diameter on ams and kleemann?

[pinoyk20]

hi guys! would just like to ask on the header pipe diameter of the stock exhaust manifold, kleemann and ams? what is the best diameter size for the e55? is the kleemann headers for the e430 different from the e55? on style and size? sorry i wasnt able to measure mine. but if im nt mistaken its 1.75inch

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[AMS Performance]

Stock = 1.4" ID (outer N/A)
Kleemann = 1.5" ID , 1 5/8ths OD
AMS = 1.65+" ID , 1.75" OD

stock exhaust ports on the head ~ 1.47-1.5"

You can measure all three with digital calipers if you don't believe me, those are the exact measurements

The AMS headers have the largest primaries between the three which is why it has the best scavenging effects at lower & mid range rpms, while still providing sufficient power at higher rpms. You cannot go any larger on a shorty bolt-on design, which is why we chose our current design. Another note, the Kleemann headers are a Tri-Y setup where two cylinders have to flow through a single 1.5" ID pipe section before the get to the larger exit flange creating a bottle neck. Most of the gains from Kleeman's are from primary cat delete, All of the gains from our headers are from the header design itself (primaries still in place).

Hope that helps,
~AMS~

[pinoyk20]

my kleemann is a 4-1 design not the tri y design. which is better of the two? thanks

[suicidal4life]

Originally Posted by pinoyk20

is the kleemann headers for the e430 different from the e55?

They are the same.

[AMS Performance]

Originally Posted by pinoyk20

my kleemann is a 4-1 design not the tri y design. which is better of the two? thanks

After confirmation, it appears the set I got my hands one was their 1st gen set of headers. It used to be a Tri-Y design, now its a 4-1 design. The newer 4-1 design is better than their older design. 4-1 has its benefits as does Tri-Y. Tri-y's are typically better for torque, 4-1 for HP.

Ideally the best thing would be to run a true Equal length Long tube 4-1 header (kleemanns aren't really long tubes, Long tubes would go all the way down by the tranny then merge).

The only way to really squeeze out all the power is to scrap the entire stock system and do full long tubes and custom design a system from scratch, dyno tune, make adjustments & etc. It would probably cost you $5k min and its not cheap to do so.

You can get most of the way there though simply by making a few changes to the OEM system for a small fraction of the cost.

However, one thing seems to be certain... running zero cats can cause serious torque loss if the system isn't designed properly.

[ABALONE]

Originally Posted by AMS Performance

Most of the gains from Kleeman's are from primary cat delete,
~AMS~

No no and no! Sorry, buy i have to go dissagree with you on this one! I had my custom exhaust built (no primarys) before my Kleemann headers. And i saw almost no power gain before i went the Kleemann header route! Car went from a fast E55 to a really fast E55 and suddenly i gained aprox 6-8 car lengths to a M3 E46 in the 50-250 Km/h races i've went to. As a comparsion i would only be aprox 2-3 car lengths with only exhaust (no primarys)

So the Kleemann headers added lots of power when my car still was N/A, BIG difference from the stock manifolds

[pinoyk20]

hi abalone what type of kleemannn headers do you have? the 4-2-1 try y or the 4-1 design?

thanks

[pinoyk20]

Originally Posted by AMS Performance

After confirmation, it appears the set I got my hands one was their 1st gen set of headers. It used to be a Tri-Y design, now its a 4-1 design. The newer 4-1 design is better than their older design. 4-1 has its benefits as does Tri-Y. Tri-y's are typically better for torque, 4-1 for HP.

Ideally the best thing would be to run a true Equal length Long tube 4-1 header (kleemanns aren't really long tubes, Long tubes would go all the way down by the tranny then merge).

The only way to really squeeze out all the power is to scrap the entire stock system and do full long tubes and custom design a system from scratch, dyno tune, make adjustments & etc. It would probably cost you $5k min and its not cheap to do so.

You can get most of the way there though simply by making a few changes to the OEM system for a small fraction of the cost.

However, one thing seems to be certain... running zero cats can cause serious torque loss if the system isn't designed properly.

wont the true long tube headers hurt the rev range power cause we ca only rev the car up to 6k rpm.......

[pinoyk20]

any more infos? thanks!

[Lawrence1]

pinoyk20 ... if you don't mind me asking ... how much have you spent on all your mods, labor and tuning so far?

[pinoyk20]

hmmm alot hehehehe 2k fot the exhaust, 1200k for tuning 2300k for airbox 300k sprintbooster 2k for body lightening, etcc. all in USD convert. hehehehe

[Lawrence1]

dont take this the wrong way but i'm hoping you'll see my point here.

you spent more than $7,5k(dont know what body lightening is but i digress) on mods that have netted you little to no power.

how much did you spend on maintenance? instead of blowing all this money on mods you would be better of spending it on maintenance items that might be due such as a new MAF, 16 OEM sparkplugs, set of magnecor or OEM wires, new filters, etc

in other words its your money and you can spend it any way you wish but it just looks like to me that you are throwing $$$ at the car left and right and even though you are seeing no power gains(sometimes even less power than stock) you keep at it.

if you want big power gains N/A you bought the wrong car. Save yourself the headaches, the money and the time and buy a W211 E55k. That car you can mod and get power out of relatively easy without too much hassle.

[maxwerks]

Originally Posted by Lawrence1

dont take this the wrong way but i'm hoping you'll see my point here.

you spent more than $7,5k(dont know what body lightening is but i digress) on mods that have netted you little to no power.

how much did you spend on maintenance? instead of blowing all this money on mods you would be better of spending it on maintenance items that might be due such as a new MAF, 16 OEM sparkplugs, set of magnecor or OEM wires, new filters, etc

in other words its your money and you can spend it any way you wish but it just looks like to me that you are throwing $$$ at the car left and right and even though you are seeing no power gains(sometimes even less power than stock) you keep at it.

if you want big power gains N/A you bought the wrong car. Save yourself the headaches, the money and the time and buy a W211 E55k. That car you can mod and get power out of relatively easy without too much hassle.

Nicely put Lawrence , I agree completely. Piony, go through the car completely first, hook it up to an MB authorized computer, get all the readings, flush all fluids, sparks , wires , etc...way before you worry about the diameter of the kleemann headers.

[maxwerks]

In a related subject.. I recently added a 2010 E350 W212 with the AMG package, every time I drive the new E it makes me wonder about all the money I put into the W210 E55 LOL, no it is not exactly the same, and I certainly cant chirp the tires as with the 55, BUT , it does make one wonder !!
It is a labor of love, and no matter how much I explain that to my wife, she still thinks I am insane !!!

[pinoyk20]

with all my expenses it will still be alot cheaper than buying a w211 e55. here the price of a w211 still goes up to 60-80k USD. really expensive in our country and thats for a 03model. igot my 210 e55 for almost 30k USD. and also my e55 is very maintained from fluids to brakes-suspension-maf etc.....