2003 E55 ECU flash...another mad owner!

[vader]

Originally Posted by C32AMG/02 I read this post and the first thought I had was, this is one group of paranoid guys, then I started to think about it, if true why would MB actively seek and flag modified cars. Then it hit me, at 54 my brain doesn’t work as fast as it use too, it’s a warranty issue, exceed the HP/ torque rating of the vehicle and components like engines and transmissions start to wear and fail prematurely, an added cost the MB $$$$$$$$ As a transmission tech and shop owner I am always looking for technical information which would aid me in diagnosing my customers’ drivability complaints, in doing so I found this. A MB training technical document. Flashing and Software Calibration Number ( SCN) “SCN coding identifies control unit software and coding conforming to vehicle” SCN is required * After flashing Fuel control unit (ME) or Electronic transmission controller * After replacement of ME or ETC Required by law, can be find if not done Vehicle may not function correctly if not preformed * Prevents after market performance enchantments* In Future additional control modules will require SCN coding They are also scanning for transmission control module performance enchantments , this is scary....

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[DKM]

I think I can agree with that. I think that the cars are pretty much the same after the flash has been done. I honestly think they were trying to "reel in" the power a little bit. Not to say, like you said, that these cars aren't fast, I just think the "ecu flash" somewhat castrates the car.

The cars are definately fast. I just think they could be faster with the correct tune.

I think its much like the whole viper cream puff issue. 1996-1999 Vipers were more stout then the 2000-2002 versions. The 96-99s had forged pistons and lumpy cam and so forth. The 2000-2002s had cast pistons and mellow cam, although both cars pretty much made the same power.

I know were have the same cars..just the "tune" is different. But basically its the same thing.

later,

dave

PS...i'm hungry, I could use some kabob. I need to go get something to eat.

Originally Posted by jangy

Sorry for the confusion, but here's what I kind of meant. As I see it, the difference between a stock '03 and stock '06 is "minor". That means that they are basically both fast, but that some (seems you included) would say that the '03 felt faster. On the other hand, the problem that some of the flash people are complaining about sounds like it makes a HUGE difference in relation to the previously mentioned comparison. That's all. Mine is not affected by the flash, so I can't say for sure, but many members have commented on how their ride doesn't even want to spin the tires. That is just not right (for an E55K). Hope that makes some logic.

[Ted Baldwin]

Originally Posted by DKM

I think I can agree with that. I think that the cars are pretty much the same after the flash has been done. I honestly think they were trying to "reel in" the power a little bit. Not to say, like you said, that these cars aren't fast, I just think the "ecu flash" somewhat castrates the car.

The cars are definately fast. I just think they could be faster with the correct tune.

I think its much like the whole viper cream puff issue. 1996-1999 Vipers were more stout then the 2000-2002 versions. The 96-99s had forged pistons and lumpy cam and so forth. The 2000-2002s had cast pistons and mellow cam, although both cars pretty much made the same power.

I know were have the same cars..just the "tune" is different. But basically its the same thing.

later,

dave

PS...i'm hungry, I could use some kabob. I need to go get something to eat.

...........in the 07 G55, MB got a 24HP increase just by modifying the ECU. It is the same car as the 05 and 06 G55 but the software in the ECU is different. Understandably MB is making a big deal about this HP increase and using it as a selling point to sell the 07 G55's. Well, any tuner can do it thereby negating MB's marketting talking points. You can buy an 05 G55 for $70K and pay $300 to get ECU tuned by one of the tuners instead of buying the 07 G55 for $104K. My point is that there is no question that MB is playing around with the ECU's themselves and would rather the tuners didn't know how to do it. What everyone needs to realize is that the ECU flash the dealers are doing is not germaine to the secondary air injection pump relay replacement. My own opinion is that that MB decided to make the AMGV8K's slower in anticipation of the AMG 63 series thinking that no one will notice.

............Here is the link to the info o the 07 G55. http://www.mercedesbenzone.com/archi...68kW_500hp.htm


Ted

[jparch]

DKM , the list you summarized is exactly what i am experiencing. i would say it definitely revs higher , but with less power top end. I am working with a couple of guys to try and resolve this; one is a computer programming "master" and the next guy specializes in ECU tuing. If they cannot crack it i don't think it can be resolved without changing the ECU.

Originally Posted by DKM

I've noticed a number of things going on.

1st...the traction control now lets the car spin the tires 3-4 FULL revolutions BEFORE it engages. Before it would kill the car with maybe 1-2 revolutions. It used to be more agressive with the pulling of spark and fuel. It seems like its easier to get it out of the hole.

2nd...the shift point seems higher then before. It now spins up to 68-6900rpms in 2nd and 3rd. I actually ran into the rev limiter when i was driving the dog piss out of it.

3rd...the car is very soft out of the hole. It used to be really jerky with 1/4 throttle take offs. Not so much anymore.

4th...Mid range and upper end HP and torque is soft. It really feels like 2-3 degrees or maybe more have been pulled throughout the RPM range.

5th...During 4th to 2nd gear kick downs is softened, its not as violent and its not as rapid.

Overall..i think 2003 and 2004 PRE FLASHED Ecu car will stomp a mudhole in 2005 and 2006. The reason I say this is because my friend that helped me find this car, and used to be on this forum until he traded in his 2005 E55 for a different car, I drove his 2005 many times before I bought mine and his always felt soft. His car was fast..but it didn't have the "hard edge" mine DID.

I don't know...maybe I'll do the Kleemann K4 upgrade sooner than I thought.


later,

dave

[jparch]

that supra is awesome

Originally Posted by DKM

The "other"car...

[Coalman]

I have always been confused by this whole tire spinning issue. I have a bone stock 2003 E55 and I have never been able to spin tires (in the summer, cold temps are a different story) once I got rolling. From a dead stop ESP will intervene to about 25 or 30. I have seen videos of K2 mods with ESP intervening to 40. Spin tires at 60, give me a break. (Or check your tires.)

I do agree torque is down after reflash and I would like old performance back, but let's not get ridiculous about where we started from.

[jangy]

Originally Posted by Coalman

I have always been confused by this whole tire spinning issue. I have a bone stock 2003 E55 and I have never been able to spin tires (in the summer, cold temps are a different story) once I got rolling. From a dead stop ESP will intervene to about 25 or 30. I have seen videos of K2 mods with ESP intervening to 40. Spin tires at 60, give me a break. (Or check your tires.)

I do agree torque is down after reflash and I would like old performance back, but let's not get ridiculous about where we started from.

There is no rediculous to it, it may have to do with your ESP mode. We only claim to SMOKE the tires when the ESP mode is off (i.e. light is on). If your car can't literally smoke the tires through first gear and into second, then you are off. Simple. The only time the portion of esp that can not be turned off by the button kicks in is when you start doing dounts. I can get about 1 1/2 circles before it intervenes, ut by then it is still quite a cloud of smoke. If yu need to get an idea of what we are saying, look at the OT section for the arab video of a white E55 just smoking tires all over a parking lot w/ dyno mode on.

[dragonAMG]

Originally Posted by Coalman

I have always been confused by this whole tire spinning issue. I have a bone stock 2003 E55 and I have never been able to spin tires (in the summer, cold temps are a different story) once I got rolling. From a dead stop ESP will intervene to about 25 or 30. I have seen videos of K2 mods with ESP intervening to 40. Spin tires at 60, give me a break. (Or check your tires.)

I do agree torque is down after reflash and I would like old performance back, but let's not get ridiculous about where we started from.

Gotta agree with Coalman.... I have K2 and my tires spin/chirp and ESP will intervene. At 60mph my tires won't spin (because of ESP) but the car will definitely break lose and feel like it is hydroplanning. Maybe that is what he is referring to? When ESP is off it is a whole different story. At 60mph in in the right gear, my tires will definitely spin.

BTW -- nice supra DKM. I live in Vegas also and would love to check that Supra out sometime.

[jangy]

Originally Posted by Ted Baldwin

...........in the 07 G55, MB got a 24HP increase just by modifying the ECU. It is the same car as the 05 and 06 G55 but the software in the ECU is different. Understandably MB is making a big deal about this HP increase and using it as a selling point to sell the 07 G55's. Well, any tuner can do it thereby negating MB's marketting talking points. You can buy an 05 G55 for $70K and pay $300 to get ECU tuned by one of the tuners instead of buying the 07 G55 for $104K. My point is that there is no question that MB is playing around with the ECU's themselves and would rather the tuners didn't know how to do it. What everyone needs to realize is that the ECU flash the dealers are doing is not germaine to the secondary air injection pump relay replacement. My own opinion is that that MB decided to make the AMGV8K's slower in anticipation of the AMG 63 series thinking that no one will notice.

............Here is the link to the info o the 07 G55. http://www.mercedesbenzone.com/archi...68kW_500hp.htm


Ted

Only question i have with saying MB wants to drop performance on the 55K overall is why then are some cars rarely affected (like the newer ones)? I definitely agree that MB did this on "purpose" I just think it had some reasoning (even if it is that less power means less warranty needs). I am starting to buy into the MB did it to coco block the tuners theory.

Agreed on the G. i am looking at a new G500 and considerd a used G55 instead. Not interested in the '07 myself.

[Cory @ Kleemann]

Originally Posted by Glassjaw

Either your service advisor is full of **** or he doesn't know what he's talking about....possibly both!! The moron pulls the old, "the tech didn't install the right program. It was his fault!!!" That's complete BS, there is only one program and one flash. There is no seperate AMG flash.

And about installing the old software. That's impossible.

My suggestion, kick your advisor in the balls and get somebody new.

Actually, MB is currently using 3 different versions of the "new" software in USA cars. Two of them are being used in most E, SL, CL, and S55's. The other is being used exclusively in the G55. There seems to be no indication or reason for using these three "different" versions, and I've not seen any pattern regarding which cars get which software, with the exception of the G.

It is very possible to load the original software the car was built with, but not by an MB dealer, simply because they don't read and save the OE software before doing the re-flash. They simply write over the OE software.

So, why are they reflashing? The air pump in these cars stays on for 120 seconds after a cold start to help light-off the primary catalysts. These air pumps are notorious for going bad after 3-4 years (some fail far earlier than that), and MB is tired of replacing them under warranty. The "main" purpose of this reflash is an attempt to get the air pump to last longer. They are also replacing the relay with one that triggers at a higher voltage as well. As for the decrease in performance most are experiencing, that secret lies with MB.

As for the SCN coding- that has nothing to do with this. The SCN code is what marries a specific ECU to a specific car, and tells it what equipment the car is built with, emissions equipment, engine, etc. Only when a NEW ECU is installed must it be SCN coded. The SCN code is specific to VIN number, not EPROM files. Furthermore, it is not possible to install a used ECU from one car into another for permanant use.

[L8Apex]

Originally Posted by DKM

The "other"car...

DKM,

Nice Spura. Have you ever run a certain 996tt (of the Protomotive persuasion) in Las Vegas with your Supra?? Or better yet his (Alex) new Supra? That Pcar is a beast. I have never seen a faster street car in my life. I hear his Supra is just as nasty.

[DKM]

I don't know if I've ever run into it. I know of every nasty supra in this town and have never heard of his. Does he hang out with anyone at our local hotspot?

I'd love to have a go with any car that could possibly hang with my car.

I want a Porsche..I've been looking for a GT2. I want a red one though. I know it'll never be faster that my supra but just the look makes me crazy.

later,

dave

Originally Posted by L8Apex

DKM,

Nice Spura. Have you ever run a certain 996tt (of the Protomotive persuasion) in Las Vegas with your Supra?? Or better yet his (Alex) new Supra? That Pcar is a beast. I have never seen a faster street car in my life. I hear his Supra is just as nasty.

[L8Apex]

Originally Posted by DKM

I don't know if I've ever run into it. I know of every nasty supra in this town and have never heard of his. Does he hang out with anyone at our local hotspot?

I'd love to have a go with any car that could possibly hang with my car.

I want a Porsche..I've been looking for a GT2. I want a red one though. I know it'll never be faster that my supra but just the look makes me crazy.

later,

dave

Here is a quick video of the Porsche: 60-130mph in 4.5 seconds It would be a good match for your Supra.
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...1210FE2FF3.htm

Look for this car:

under the hood:

[chiromikey]

Originally Posted by CoryU

Actually, MB is currently using 3 different versions of the "new" software in USA cars. Two of them are being used in most E, SL, CL, and S55's. The other is being used exclusively in the G55. There seems to be no indication or reason for using these three "different" versions, and I've not seen any pattern regarding which cars get which software, with the exception of the G.

It is very possible to load the original software the car was built with, but not by an MB dealer, simply because they don't read and save the OE software before doing the re-flash. They simply write over the OE software.

So, why are they reflashing? The air pump in these cars stays on for 120 seconds after a cold start to help light-off the primary catalysts. These air pumps are notorious for going bad after 3-4 years (some fail far earlier than that), and MB is tired of replacing them under warranty. The "main" purpose of this reflash is an attempt to get the air pump to last longer. They are also replacing the relay with one that triggers at a higher voltage as well. As for the decrease in performance most are experiencing, that secret lies with MB.

As for the SCN coding- that has nothing to do with this. The SCN code is what marries a specific ECU to a specific car, and tells it what equipment the car is built with, emissions equipment, engine, etc. Only when a NEW ECU is installed must it be SCN coded. The SCN code is specific to VIN number, not EPROM files. Furthermore, it is not possible to install a used ECU from one car into another for permanant use.

this information falls more inline with my understanding and what i have been told. as far as scn goes, wouldn't it be possible to scn a used ecu just like you would a new ecu if one is going to attempt to use it in their car (if you can find a dealer to do it)?

[DKM]

looks like hes running my friends intake manifold (virtual works racing). I think I've seen those same pics before on another forum. I'll wait and see what the car does, but I've never been too worried of other cars roaming the streets. If someone can outrun my car then they have a fast car.

There's a huge underestimation in Las Vegas, people think since its still a small town (relatively) that we don't have anything worthy. I can think of at least 5 other cars in this town that make over 1200rwhp and are driven and enjoyed. I can also name at least 10-15 other cars that range from 1000-1180rwhp.

So if someone thinks they can come to our backyard and bully us around..they're sorely mistaken.

He should bring the car out on a sunday morning where everyone meets up to play. We'll see how fast that 996 really is. No disrespect but a lot of us here in Vegas hear how fast their friends cars are and nothing pans out.

pm me if he wants to come up

later,

dave

[Cory @ Kleemann]

Originally Posted by chiromikey

this information falls more inline with my understanding and what i have been told. as far as scn goes, wouldn't it be possible to scn a used ecu just like you would a new ecu if one is going to attempt to use it in their car (if you can find a dealer to do it)?

In theory, yes it would be possible to SCN code a used ECU to a different car, but I've never tried it, so I can't say for sure.

[L8Apex]

You have pm. If you do run the 996tt, make sure it is on video! I have yet to see/hear that car lose. Good Luck!

Originally Posted by DKM

looks like hes running my friends intake manifold (virtual works racing). I think I've seen those same pics before on another forum. I'll wait and see what the car does, but I've never been too worried of other cars roaming the streets. If someone can outrun my car then they have a fast car.

There's a huge underestimation in Las Vegas, people think since its still a small town (relatively) that we don't have anything worthy. I can think of at least 5 other cars in this town that make over 1200rwhp and are driven and enjoyed. I can also name at least 10-15 other cars that range from 1000-1180rwhp.

So if someone thinks they can come to our backyard and bully us around..they're sorely mistaken.

He should bring the car out on a sunday morning where everyone meets up to play. We'll see how fast that 996 really is. No disrespect but a lot of us here in Vegas hear how fast their friends cars are and nothing pans out.

pm me if he wants to come up

later,

dave

[BoBcanada]

Guys as i said in another thread my theory is that they doing it on purpose to make e55 slower or/as same as e63 so people will switch?

What do you think?

[DKM]

I think it would be a valid thought. You can't deny the fact that the E55k has way more ability to get tuned then the current E63. If MBZ figures their sales would go up for the E63 by slowing down their previous car, I could see it happening.

Who knows though...I've heard a few theories while reading this forum and a couple make sense and a couple don't.

later,

dave

Originally Posted by BoBcanada

Guys as i said in another thread my theory is that they doing it on purpose to make e55 slower or/as same as e63 so people will switch?

What do you think?

[Ted Baldwin]

Originally Posted by CoryU

Actually, MB is currently using 3 different versions of the "new" software in USA cars. Two of them are being used in most E, SL, CL, and S55's. The other is being used exclusively in the G55. There seems to be no indication or reason for using these three "different" versions, and I've not seen any pattern regarding which cars get which software, with the exception of the G.

It is very possible to load the original software the car was built with, but not by an MB dealer, simply because they don't read and save the OE software before doing the re-flash. They simply write over the OE software.

So, why are they reflashing? The air pump in these cars stays on for 120 seconds after a cold start to help light-off the primary catalysts. These air pumps are notorious for going bad after 3-4 years (some fail far earlier than that), and MB is tired of replacing them under warranty. The "main" purpose of this reflash is an attempt to get the air pump to last longer. They are also replacing the relay with one that triggers at a higher voltage as well. As for the decrease in performance most are experiencing, that secret lies with MB.

As for the SCN coding- that has nothing to do with this. The SCN code is what marries a specific ECU to a specific car, and tells it what equipment the car is built with, emissions equipment, engine, etc. Only when a NEW ECU is installed must it be SCN coded. The SCN code is specific to VIN number, not EPROM files. Furthermore, it is not possible to install a used ECU from one car into another for permanant use.

..........Thanks Cory for the explanation.

...........I can vouch for Cory's explanation regarding SCN coding since did buy a brand new ECU from Germany that had to be SCN coded for my VIN. The ECU is sitting in my garage now and not useful to anyone else.

..........there is a company that can unmarry an ECU from a VIN. The name of the company excapes me. They are located in Portland, I think. I have talked to the owner and the problem is that they are only able to do 2002 cars and earlier. The reason I was told is that it takes a lot of time for them to figure out the ECU's as new cars get produced so the process is 3 years behind.

..........You can also buy an aftermarket ECU for your car for less than half the price from a dealer. I have also talked to the company and they do infact have aftermarket ECU's for Mercedes but again they are 3 years behind. Here is a link to the company. http://www.ecudirect.com/finditfast/

......If you want to modify your car, do so. Just don't let the dealer flash your ECU. Why anyone will have their ECU flashed by the dealer at this point escapes my intelligence. If the dealer does it despite your refusal, I think you have a case if you wish to pursue it legally. It is afterall your car. Beyond that, you can probably have your ECU flashed back to one of the original pre-recall MB programs, thus eliminating the recall program. This can be done by a reputable tuner like Kleemann, not the dealer.

Ted

[vader]

Originally Posted by CoryU

As for the decrease in performance most are experiencing, that secret lies with MB.

.

Originally Posted by Ted Baldwin

Beyond that, you can probably have your ECU flashed back to one of the original pre-recall MB programs, thus eliminating the recall program. This can be done by a reputable tuner like Kleemann, not the dealer.

Cory...can you confirm that you can re-flash to a pre-recall program ? PM is fine if it makes more sense.

[jangy]

Originally Posted by vader

Cory...can you confirm that you can re-flash to a pre-recall program ? PM is fine if it makes more sense.

I can't speak for Kleeman, but what typically happens is that the tuner keeps a copy of your "old" program on their computer. That is what they can flash on your ecu. The dealer can do it technically, but their protocol is not to keep a copy of the old ones. My guess would be that IF you had your ECU flashed by Kleeman, EVO, etc. (note VRUS not saying RENN) they MAY have your old copy saved. If not, then it can be touch and go as you never know how your car will act with each of the given MB versions. I ended up taking my old one back at least 4 times to re-flash with various versions until one was nice.

Can anyone verify this?

[vader]

So basically I am screwed sinc I was flahed at the dealer and no one has my previous program copied. I sure hope Renntech puts a whammy on this thing when I send it in...

[vader]

So basically I am screwed since I was flashed at the dealer and no one has my previous program copied. I sure hope Renntech puts a whammy on this thing when I send it in...

[jangy]

Originally Posted by vader

So basically I am screwed sinc I was flahed at the dealer and no one has my previous program copied. I sure hope Renntech puts a whammy on this thing when I send it in...

No you are not screwed. Most tuners have all the versions on "file", but just don't now which to load onto your ECU. You need to run it on your car to find the best one. I may be totally off as it has been over a year since i have my games and they had nothing to do with any of the current versions.

Good luck.